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Achurans were once Gallente?

First post
Author
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#1 - 2013-10-14 16:06:49 UTC
Just noticed this in the Caldari article and the change log is too hard for me to figure out, never noticed this before:

Quote:
"The Achura have been part of the Caldari State for three centuries, joining and leaving the Federation at the same time as the State. "


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Caldari

I had been under the impression that the Achurans were discovered by the Caldari when they were colonizing The Forge etc in secret and unknown to the Gallenteans until the rise of the State proper.

I guess Saisio is not all that far from the Gallente Border Zone - but that opens some questions up - what territories were the secret ones that the Caldari took up when they seceded? Was The Forge region a territory that used to be in the Federation and the Caldari took it with them?

I feel like everything I have known has been a lie based on this one sentence. Shocked
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2013-10-14 19:21:54 UTC
There've been discussions of this in the past. As best I can tell the discovery and brief inclusion into the Federation was a retcon introduced with one of the massive article-dumps, some time before or around April 2013 (based on when previous threads pop up).

I think this is also about when the lore regarding the catalyst for Achuran star-travel being the ravaging of their homeworld by some pirate faction got quietly reduced as well; while it previously suggested the planet's entire biosphere was severely destabilized, as best I can tell PF now only mentions some sacred religious relics that were stolen and are still being searched for.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#3 - 2013-10-14 21:06:09 UTC
Was that here in EVE Fiction? I searched here for "Achura" and did not find such a thread in that time frame on quite that topic. Are you able to link to it?
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2013-10-15 01:10:03 UTC
The discussions went on in the "Backstage" forums, an external RP-discussion forum.

For example, here is a thread from 2013 in which some retcons of Gallente history in some articles on the Evelopedia are discussed. Among them is that the references to Achura inclusion in the Federation appear to have been removed, surprising some. Others comment that suggestions that Sukuuvestaa corporation was "ravaging" the Achuran homeworld of Saisio III appear to have been culled in the same round of article changes in favor of more ambiguous language, evoking more surprise.

Here is a second thread from a bit later on the same forum discussing the Achura-State relationship in specific. The Federation thing comes up again. It's a long thread, difficult to summarize in a sentence. Lots of frustration with vague lore, though, so that's a constant.

Finally, a couple links from Evelopedia:

The main article on Achura contains some good info, but perhaps most telling are the revisions it has gone through: While the current version speaks little of Saisio III and merely gives the Achuran reason for spreading into space as "a desire to unlock the secrets of the universe", an older version described their homeworld as "inhospitable", and notes that "the recent desecration of their homeworld at the hands of pirates prompted them to take to the skies in greater numbers."

(Frankly, I'm saddened by that loss of info, but that's my personal opinion.)

Finally, perhaps contradicting the earlier arguements toward Achura having only interacted with the State is the current "Government of the Gallente Federation" article, which still lists Achura as a joining race to the Federation.

Given the Federation has sometimes been slow to push in on what they see as insular civilizations (see the example of the Jin-Mei), my personal theory on how to stitch this together is that contact had been made between the Achura and Federation, with the Achura agreeing in principle to become part of the Federation. The process of integration and assimilation may have been slowed as much by Saisio's relative distance from Luminaire as by cultural insularity; as you pointed out, it is well within modern State territory.

Before true integration could be made, however, the Caldari-Gallente war erupted. The Achura, realising they were likely to be squarely within the new state and having no real cultural ties with the Federation to begin with, threw in their lot with the newly-arrived Caldari; in particular, the Sukuuvestaa corporation, which may have already been operating in their system by this time.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#5 - 2013-10-15 05:03:31 UTC
Great discussion thanks. And I couldn't help feeling gratified that one of the threads over on Backstage you linked to starts out with a IGS post I myself started Big smile

I am seeing contradictions. Like here which I think is what I had been going from before:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Caldari_State#Achura

Quote:
The Achura only become recognized and known to the rest of the cluster during the capsuleer era.


and

Quote:
Influenced by Sukuuvestaa, the Achura decided to join the Caldari in their secession as a client state. Their pre-industrial Achura Empire had been discovered by SuVee during the secret colonization many decades prior...


Looks like the PF is a mess here. Oops

Both of these imply that Achura were not known to the Federation until they started appearing as pod pilots.

History surely cannot have it both ways.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#6 - 2013-10-15 14:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Horatius Caul
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
There've been discussions of this in the past. As best I can tell the discovery and brief inclusion into the Federation was a retcon introduced with one of the massive article-dumps, some time before or around April 2013 (based on when previous threads pop up).

No, the "joining and leaving the federation" stuff has been part of the Achur PF since Bloodlines. As you say, the last debate about Achura on Backstage was about references to this being retconned out, not in. Either way it's not the case, as this is how it has always been and always shall be.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#7 - 2013-10-15 15:16:30 UTC
Given the contradictions I hope CCP Eterne notices this thread and harmonizes the articles one way or the other.
CCP Falcon
#8 - 2013-10-16 10:27:50 UTC
Hmmm, I'll point this out to Abraxas and Gnauton, and it'll be added to the backlog of stuff that needs resolving.

Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#9 - 2013-10-16 14:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Please let me know when you've decided where my people come from Big smile

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