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Boosting MIssion Rewards (LP / ISK) in Low Sec and Null Sec
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Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-14 23:08:01 UTC
The current LP system boosts LP rewards with lower security status.
(Back in the Day agent quality mattered as well but all agents all now have an effective quality of 20).

A mission in .4 security low sec is vastly more dangerous that a mission in .5 High sec, but not much more difficult that a mission in .1 securtity low sec.

Why does the mission in .4 security space pay closer to .5 than .1?

Proposal :
Mission LP/ISK reward is much more strongly (or completely) based on High/Low/Null.
No need to modify bounties at this time.
This only would apply to Level 1 -> Level 4 mission
Level 5 missions are only available in Low Sec and their payout is fine.


Basic Maths (open for suggestions) numbers are relative to a current .5 system payout for a given mission.

High Sec -
.9 = .3x
.8 = .35x
.7 = .4x
.6 = .45x
.5 = .5x
Yes!!! High sec would yield one half the ISK/LP that they currently do.


Low Sec -
.4 = 2x
.3 = 2.1x
.2 = 2.2x
.1 = 2.3x

Yes!!! Low sec missions would pay out 4+ times High Sec Missions.
Will people stop missioning in high sec??? We can only Hope


Null Sec -
All Npc Null = 3x (But only for corporations that have agents in high/low)

You should not apply this modifier to Pirate agents as it would greatly increase the availability of pirate LP and therefore drive down it's value.

I am including this only for those "high sec corporations" that also have agents in NULL. If you're willing to take the risks of missioning in NPC null vs High Sec or Low Sec you should get a bit more payout (as far as I know these agents are only in Syndicate, but there could be others that I don't know about)


-FM
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#2 - 2013-10-14 23:17:30 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:

Will people stop missioning in high sec???


Nope.

Because implants/clones/cloaks/fear/etc.
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity
#3 - 2013-10-14 23:20:12 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
Will people stop missioning in high sec??? We can only Hope


No, they won't.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2013-10-14 23:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
I'm not opposed to the idea of increasing the rewards for low-sec missions, but I don't think this will see any significant number of high-sec players venturing to low-sec. Not really keen on the idea of missions in null-sec (I think there are enough opportunities already, but it's not my playground).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Luc Chastot
#5 - 2013-10-14 23:26:35 UTC
1. Highsec alts will have less money to fund pvp mains.
2. Supply will remain the same, so prices will go down.

That is just the beginnig.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2013-10-14 23:28:35 UTC
Posting in a stealth nerf high sec thread.
Oh wait, not very stealth.

If your idea is to increase Low sec & null sec missioning. Why not just go with the carrot side of your proposal.
If your idea is to nerf high sec income, gtfo. High sec income is already far below null sec bloc players income & Fwar income. And doesn't need nerfing even further into the ground. People have to start somewhere and have a decent fallback position if their low/null attempts get smashed (as most will). The more you nerf high sec the more timid people will get because it takes longer (twice as long in your proposal) to recover from any low/null sec losses after retreating. Not less timid.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#7 - 2013-10-14 23:41:39 UTC
I like the idea overall of boosting low sec mission rewards. Considering there is zero concord intervention a low sec missioner is at much higher risk regardless of how they tank.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-10-15 00:18:02 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Posting in a stealth nerf high sec thread.
Oh wait, not very stealth.

If your idea is to increase Low sec & null sec missioning. Why not just go with the carrot side of your proposal.
If your idea is to nerf high sec income, gtfo. High sec income is already far below null sec bloc players income & Fwar income. And doesn't need nerfing even further into the ground. People have to start somewhere and have a decent fallback position if their low/null attempts get smashed (as most will). The more you nerf high sec the more timid people will get because it takes longer (twice as long in your proposal) to recover from any low/null sec losses after retreating. Not less timid.



Who would this change affect?
1) People who never leave high sec and never engage in PvP. OK, I admit this is bad them. They would need to adapt(explore some low sec) or accept that they need to mission twice as long to buy their monthly PLEX.

2) PvPers who mission to maximize their ISK/hour to fund other ventures. This change is beneficial to them. Assuming they can run half as many missions in low sec as they can in high sec (no problem) their income will actually increase. Missioning in low sec is not impossible, it just takes a little longer and has higher risk. More risk should equal more reward.

3) New players. I didn't think about this but you are completely right. Perhaps the change for level 1-3 missions should be less severe or boost payout for level 1-2 missions in general.

If Low Sec missions pay 4x High Sec missions it *will* increase interest in low sec. Imagine corporations spreading out through low sec looking for a quiet system to operate out of. (A quick check of eveagents shows 39 low sec systems where Amarr Level 4 Security agents reside). Pirate corporations spreading out through low sec to hunt them. All those capsulars drawn by the riches of low sec forced to learn combat mechanics and fight back on their own.
Would you deprive your EVE brethren of the chance to experience the agony of losing their hard earned ships to seemingly overpowered players, or the chance of retribution against their would be butchers?

-FM
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2013-10-15 00:26:07 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
If Low Sec missions pay 4x High Sec missions it *will* increase interest in low sec. Imagine corporations spreading out through low sec looking for a quiet system to operate out of. (A quick check of eveagents shows 39 low sec systems where Amarr Level 4 Security agents reside). Pirate corporations spreading out through low sec to hunt them. All those capsulars drawn by the riches of low sec forced to learn combat mechanics and fight back on their own.
Would you deprive your EVE brethren of the chance to experience the agony of losing their hard earned ships to seemingly overpowered players, or the chance of retribution against their would be butchers? -FM

Not really. At least not for high-sec players. Maybe it will add another perk for low-sec players, and I'm fine with that.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#10 - 2013-10-15 00:38:22 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:

If Low Sec missions pay 4x High Sec missions it *will* increase interest in low sec.


It's already tested, doesn't work.

In Ultima Online (open world PvP, full loot sandbox) at some point they duplicated the word: Trammel and Felluca, one open pvp and the other more safe PvP only consensual.

The open PvP world was extremely more rewarding but 90% of players still preferred the safer and less rewarding.

Is not about rewards, if a chance is given the majority always prefer the "safer" option. Players not accepting to be forced in some gameplay they dislike will never like it, no matter how much you pay.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#11 - 2013-10-15 00:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Fango. lol.

That will seriously tighten the supply of LP items, which will raise the value of LP.

I'd expect that the new equilibrium would be LP raising by about 80% of the reduction in points amount you propose, at which time the few people able to implement blitzing L5s would become extraordinarily wealthy (as if they aren't already).

The only way that L5 income would be able to be kept constant would be to also outlet an extra supply of LP items elsewhere.

In the vein of the thread, which appears to be feather ones nest, I propose adding an extra commander type for anomolies that drops conventional stat implants ;)

if one is concerned about making vindicator pilots incredibly rich, then they could bias them towards appearing in yards, named dens and rally points and ports and stuff that also appears in low and isn't currently particularly valuable.

/nest feathered.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-15 00:48:55 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Not really. At least not for high-sec players. Maybe it will add another perk for low-sec players, and I'm fine with that.


Most Eve players are Min/Maxers even the high-sec players.

The problem is that right now, it's not worth while to mission in low sec (unless you are running L5s). The 30% boost in payout is not worth the hassle (because you would make more ISK in high sec).

We need to flip that paradigm on it's head. Everyone should look at the math and realize, "Hey it's crazy for me to mission in high sec. Even if I'm not completely safe and loose a couple battleships per week, I'll still make way more ISK in low sec"

Some high-sec players are scared of low sec, but mostly they are just good at math.
If low sec mission works out to 60 Million per hour and high sec missioning works out to 15 million per hour, then people will move.

As soon as a critical mass moves to low sec, new players will be able to read about low sec missioning on the forums, join low sec missioning corps (which by default are at least sudo pvp corps), and learn how to mission in low sec (which by default gives them a basic pvp understanding).

-FM
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-10-15 01:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fango Mango
Tauranon wrote:
Fango. lol.

That will seriously tighten the supply of LP items, which will raise the value of LP.

I'd expect that the new equilibrium would be LP raising by about 80% of the reduction in points amount you propose, at which time the few people able to implement blitzing L5s would become extraordinarily wealthy (as if they aren't already).

The only way that L5 income would be able to be kept constant would be to also outlet an extra supply of LP items elsewhere.

In the vein of the thread, which appears to be feather ones nest, I propose adding an extra commander type for anomolies that drops conventional stat implants ;)

if one is concerned about making vindicator pilots incredibly rich, then they could bias them towards appearing in yards, named dens and rally points and ports and stuff that also appears in low and isn't currently particularly valuable.

/nest feathered.

You figured me out.
I am a well known L5 mission runner. Confirming that we are extraordinarily wealthy.
And while 2x the value of LP would certainly be nice, I don't need to make 1 Billion ISK per hour to be happy, I'm happy with my 500M ISK/Hour.

I want CCP to adjust the "rules" to favor life in low sec, not discourage it. Why? Because players in high sec don't create a lot of content. Sure they mine minerals (thank you miners!!!), but content comes from player interaction and for the most part high sec mission runners just interact with the CCP servers.
Let's encourage a group of them to move out to low sec. They'll have more ISK than they know what to do with so they'll start trying to blow up the ships that try to blow them up inside of running and hiding.
Then we all get to have more fun (and those poor high sec miners get to sell more minerals!!! I'll never forget you poor high sec miners)

-FM
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2013-10-15 01:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Fango Mango wrote:
The problem is that right now, it's not worth while to mission in low sec (unless you are running L5s). The 30% boost in payout is not worth the hassle (because you would make more ISK in high sec).

It's worth the reward - not the risk.

Fango Mango wrote:
I want CCP to adjust the "rules" to favor life in low sec, not discourage it. Why? Because players in high sec don't create a lot of content. Sure they mine minerals (thank you miners!!!), but content comes from player interaction and for the most part high sec mission runners just interact with the CCP servers.

Why? Low-sec players are just going to bastardize it anyway (the only time they undock or leave the protected shielding of their POS is when someone enters the system). Their quest for "tears" has driven players into null and high-sec, and now they're relegated to the scraps in low-sec or ganking in high-sec. I guess one reaps what one sows...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-10-15 01:30:43 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Fango Mango wrote:
The problem is that right now, it's not worth while to mission in low sec (unless you are running L5s). The 30% boost in payout is not worth the hassle (because you would make more ISK in high sec).

It's worth the reward - not the risk.


No it's not worth the reward. Given that you have to adjust your fit, pay attention all the time, and leave your missions if you get scanned down, you end up completing less missions per hour.

I currently make less running missions from a .2 level 4, agent then I make from a .5 level 4 agent because I complete less per hour even though the .2 agent pays 30% more (ISK/LP bounties are the same).

And that's before you take into account the cost of insuring/replacing your ship.

-FM
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-10-15 01:41:02 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Why? Low-sec players are just going to bastardize it anyway (the only time they undock or leave the protected shielding of their POS is when someone enters the system). Their quest for "tears" has driven players into null and high-sec, and now they're relegated to the scraps in low-sec or ganking in high-sec. I guess one reaps what one sows...


Come on . . . that is not what low sec is like. That's some myth built up by I don't know who, scared high sec bears who went into low sec totally un-prepared? Low sec pirates who want to make themselves look cool? CCP to drive people out of low sec?

Low sec is not incredibly dangerous. It is just more dangerous than high sec and requires a certain skill set to survive.
Fit a MWD/T2 Cloak/and use your D-scanner and you'll *almost* never get caught.

I've been a nomad in low sec for years. Aside from maybe 4-5 systems (that everyone probably hears about), the reputation as a cutthroat pirate den full of evil villians plotting to hot drop your solo vexor with 50 battleships is totally false*.

-FM

* I did have this happen to me once . . . but what can you do but laugh? The isotopes they used to bridge cost way more than my vexor so its kinda like I won.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#17 - 2013-10-15 01:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Fango Mango wrote:
No it's not worth the reward. Given that you have to adjust your fit, pay attention all the time, and leave your missions if you get scanned down, you end up completing less missions per hour.

I currently make less running missions from a .2 level 4, agent then I make from a .5 level 4 agent because I complete less per hour even though the .2 agent pays 30% more (ISK/LP bounties are the same).

And that's before you take into account the cost of insuring/replacing your ship.-FM

It's not the compensation that's the problem, it's the vultures that inhabit low-sec. Low-sec corporations could easily be "renting" out their systems in the form of providing escort for L5 mission runners, but they're too preoccupied about shooting anything that moves and screwing each other over to actually put any thought into how they might be able to actually profit from it.

I mean, when you shoot a shuttle that's worth nothing and pod the occupant (also worth nothing) - you pretty much send the clear message that you're not open for business. Giving low-sec anything at this point is like handing them a fully-loaded revolver and watching them attempt to play Russian Roulette.

Fango Mango wrote:
Come on . . . that is not what low sec is like. That's some myth built up by I don't know who, scared high sec bears who went into low sec totally un-prepared? Low sec pirates who want to make themselves look cool? CCP to drive people out of low sec?

Low sec is not incredibly dangerous. It is just more dangerous than high sec and requires a certain skill set to survive.
Fit a MWD/T2 Cloak/and use your D-scanner and you'll *almost* never get caught.

I've been a nomad in low sec for years. Aside from maybe 4-5 systems (that everyone probably hears about), the reputation as a cutthroat pirate den full of evil villians plotting to hot drop your solo vexor with 50 battleships is totally false*.-FM

* I did have this happen to me once . . . but what can you do but laugh? The isotopes they used to bridge cost way more than my vexor so its kinda like I won.

Who are you trying to convince here? No one missions or mines in low-sec on a consistent basis (the chart that Gevlon posted shows that more mining is done in wormhole space than low-sec despite the increased logistical challenges). There are only two ways guaranteed to not get caught in low-sec: Covert Ops cloaks or don't venture into low-sec (you can't scan ahead for gate camps). There's a reason high-sec ganking is catching on in popularity (these are more in line with the type of targets low-sec players enjoy shooting).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Quake590
Neurotoxin Control
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#18 - 2013-10-15 02:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Quake590
I absolutely love the anti-pirate sentiment in here, and while it's true to some extent lowsec is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Some systems (Amamake, Rancer, Tama <3, Old Man Star) are terrible and not worthwhile to PvE in unless you know what you're doing, especially since the FW buff most of lowsec is dead quiet.

I haven't visited many agent systems, but most of them are dead quiet, and while getting ganked is a possibility, as was said above, simple common sense and possible a mwd/cloak OR a scout, is more than enough to save your arse 99% of the time. While I'm at it I will say this, beyond DEDs and FW, and clone ratting, earning isk is not much better than in highsec.

Although, now that I think about it, with all the recent buffs it might not be so impossible to find a niche after all >.> Even if only to break the monotony of mission running.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#19 - 2013-10-15 02:59:24 UTC
Quake590 wrote:
I absolutely love the anti-pirate sentiment in here, and while it's true to some extent lowsec is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Some systems (Amamake, Rancer, Tama <3, Old Man Star) are terrible and not worthwhile to PvE in unless you know what you're doing, especially since the FW buff most of lowsec is dead quiet.

I haven't visited many agent systems, but most of them are dead quiet, and while getting ganked is a possibility, as was said above, simple common sense and possible a mwd/cloak OR a scout, is more than enough to save your arse 99% of the time. While I'm at it I will say this, beyond DEDs and FW, and clone ratting, earning isk is not much better than in highsec.

Although, now that I think about it, with all the recent buffs it might not be so impossible to find a niche after all >.> Even if only to break the monotony of mission running.

Low-sec has totally earned the reputation it has. If there were more "privateers" than simply "pirates", things would be radically different. Sure, there are a lot of systems that are dead quiet. Until someone shows up, that is - at which point the gankers start logging in and the system gets dead quiet. Again.

There's tremendous earning potential in low-sec. But let's be honest: that's not why people who live in low-sec are there in the first place. Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#20 - 2013-10-15 07:36:15 UTC
It also depends on the general area you run in. The areas that I run in are pretty quiet and I can count on 2 hands the number of time i have seen a gate camp in he past 2 months.

Once you are in a site you are pretty safe really and in the second room and you are golden. Just swap between long and short scan every so often if there are ships on scan and warp to a safe and cloak if they come on short scan or combat probes.
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