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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Author
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1681 - 2013-10-14 17:41:44 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Woeful Animation wrote:


I can see the Astero being a real pain in the FW context.

I know -- I know, turn down the flames and listen.

1. It will become the premier LP farming platform. Four lows = four warp stabs. Cloaky for giggles and with full mobility. Put a shield extender and presto, little chance of an alpha strike. The only thing holding this back will be its price.



This a thousand times.

Possible ways around it:

- Ban these ships from novice FW plexes. At least then they're not doing anything a bomber can't.
- Disable cloaking inside FW plexes. (even then, it has 4 stabs and the drones to kill FW rats))
- Add debris fields near the button to hinder cloaking while running the site. (might cause some lag though).

This Astero is not better than a Hookbill...
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1682 - 2013-10-14 17:57:54 UTC
Depends how you define better...
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1683 - 2013-10-14 18:08:23 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

This Astero is not better than a Hookbill...


That might be relevant if I was talking about combat, but I'm talking about how easy it is to avoid it with these ships. I think you're responding to a different poster.

You can already do pretty well with a t1 frig stabbed to hell with a regular cloak. Adding a covert cloak makes them just about impossible to catch and you don't even to decloak and accelerate to warp off if somebody comes in your plex and you cloak up to avoid detection.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1684 - 2013-10-14 19:26:38 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thread is full of people who blob gang all the time and don't understand the importance of effective and applied DPS, so they churn out crazy EFT fits that no one will ever use and say that "it gets 1000 DPS!!111 omgz1! op too stronk stronk! narf narf narf nao!" while not realizing that the effective, applied DPS is probably a third to half of that (330 - 500).


I can assure you that I understand the importance of applied DPS very well and I can assure you that Heavy Drones are able to hit web scrammed targets very well.


Have fun getting a scram on the target in the first place. Especially with the targeting delay and upcoming warp changes. Anything smaller than a battlecruiser will warp away by the time you can lock; everything else will kill you. Also, good luck with that absolutely pathetic tank.
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#1685 - 2013-10-14 20:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thread is full of people who blob gang all the time and don't understand the importance of effective and applied DPS, so they churn out crazy EFT fits that no one will ever use and say that "it gets 1000 DPS!!111 omgz1! op too stronk stronk! narf narf narf nao!" while not realizing that the effective, applied DPS is probably a third to half of that (330 - 500).


I can assure you that I understand the importance of applied DPS very well and I can assure you that Heavy Drones are able to hit web scrammed targets very well.


Have fun getting a scram on the target in the first place. Especially with the targeting delay and upcoming warp changes. Anything smaller than a battlecruiser will warp away by the time you can lock; everything else will kill you. Also, good luck with that absolutely pathetic tank.

I feel like you are vastly overrating the reaction speed of an average EVE player. While a 5 second Targeting delay is not insignificant, it also isn't as hindering as you would assume when you take into account the 1second EVE ticks, player reaction, and the ability to bump out of alignment.

50k ehp is not a pathetic tank. It's actually above average for most cruiser sized ships, T1 and some T2, thanks to that lovely 20% resist bonus. With the additional mids for TDs I would find it also unlikely for any gunbased ship (the most common) to be able to kill the Stratios without extreme pilot error on the part of the Stratios pilot.

Finally, the new warp changes have no effect on this at all because that only applies after they have reached the 75% max velocity threshold and begin to warp off. At least read up on changes to use in your argument before you start spouting them out like a crazed bible thumper, because not doing so is just lowering your credibility.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1686 - 2013-10-14 20:24:31 UTC
i would suggest removing 1 heavy its dps is quite high for a cloaky ship and there are so many drone boats its kind of devaluing gallente lore a little and overshadowing vexor, NVexor, even the prophecy.

I think gurista line should become more like vexors 4 heavies missile damage bonus instead of velocity .. gallente should be the dominant drone race and well there is no solid missile pirate line ... 2 birds with 1 stone comes to mind.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1687 - 2013-10-14 21:25:08 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
i would suggest removing 1 heavy its dps is quite high for a cloaky ship and there are so many drone boats its kind of devaluing gallente lore a little and overshadowing vexor, NVexor, even the prophecy.

I think gurista line should become more like vexors 4 heavies missile damage bonus instead of velocity .. gallente should be the dominant drone race and well there is no solid missile pirate line ... 2 birds with 1 stone comes to mind.

I'm anxious to see the new direction of the guristas hinted at by other comments, but the cruiser is a pirate vessel, thus overshadowing the Nvexor, and moreso even the vexor, is to be expected in the presented hierarchy. The should tend to the top of the heap and the shared strength of drones in both racial contributors should make it very competitive there specifically.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1688 - 2013-10-14 23:36:12 UTC
For these new ships how about totally new weapons systems? I know it's too late to ask for but one can always dream....
Bear
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1689 - 2013-10-14 23:37:20 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
For these new ships how about totally new weapons systems? I know it's too late to ask for but one can always dream....
Bear

How about the battleship?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1690 - 2013-10-15 00:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Especially with the targeting delay and upcoming warp changes. Anything smaller than a battlecruiser will warp away by the time you can lock; everything else will kill you. Also, good luck with that absolutely pathetic tank.

I wish people would stop saying this. It's just not accurate. Firstly, all ships keep the same align time after Rubicon as pre-rubicon. Warp speeds are irrelevant in this discussion.

Secondly, One word: BUMP. Getting tackle has never been an issue for a cloaky proteus, loki, or pilgrim. These ships are feared for a reason. Even with the targeting delay. It has always been this way and these ships have always been able to land the tackle.

I'm ignoring everything else in the discussion, simply because CCP probably won't do anything regarding balance changes until after these ships hit the test server, so discussion on that front is moot. So please, stop spreading disinformation regarding cloaky ships and tackle. Thousands of killmails prove the exact opposite of what you describe.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1691 - 2013-10-15 03:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
The next person who says "reduce the cargo bay, it's overpowered" should have their fingers cut off.

Just my opinion.

Reducing the cargo bay to be on par with T1 defeats half of what this ship is even intended to do.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1692 - 2013-10-15 03:48:02 UTC
Can we reduce the cargo bay? It's overpowered...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1693 - 2013-10-15 04:18:51 UTC
As has been said repeatedly.. If the Blaster/Drone combo is overpowered. Reduce the drone DPS and up the laser DPS. That ties it tighter to lasers which matches the stated design intent, as well as drops DPS a bit, since Laser DPS will be lower than the Blaster DPS, & tracking will be a bit worse at the blank point ranges people are talking to bump & drop heavy drone DPS instantly.
Alternatively applied drone DPS will be lower since heavies will have to travel. Giving the target time to counter web and pull range through higher base speed (assuming same number of webs almost any other cruiser fitted for PvP will pull range on the Stratios, especially if you MWD fit the Stratios for bumping, if you AB fit you then struggle to bump.) as well as lock & engage the heavy drones or Stratios directly before drone DPS gets applied.

Of course, all these 'OP' fits don't have an extended probe launcher, & most of them don't even have a normal probe launcher. So you aren't finding most of these supposed targets to start with and having that much DPS anyway. Unless you find someone ratting in low sec I guess. Which has always been a dicey game anyway.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1694 - 2013-10-15 04:53:02 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
Woeful Animation wrote:


I can see the Astero being a real pain in the FW context.

I know -- I know, turn down the flames and listen.

1. It will become the premier LP farming platform. Four lows = four warp stabs. Cloaky for giggles and with full mobility. Put a shield extender and presto, little chance of an alpha strike. The only thing holding this back will be its price.



This a thousand times.

Possible ways around it:

- Ban these ships from novice FW plexes. At least then they're not doing anything a bomber can't.
- Disable cloaking inside FW plexes. (even then, it has 4 stabs and the drones to kill FW rats))
- Add debris fields near the button to hinder cloaking while running the site. (might cause some lag though).

This Astero is not better than a Hookbill...


It probably is. Tight on fittings and a touch slow but it will out brawl a Hookbill.
Anthony Dvorak
#1695 - 2013-10-15 05:40:55 UTC
The Servant Sisters of EVE are ostensibly considered enemies by the Amarr Empire. Why, then, have their ships using a combination of Gallente and Amarr skill bonuses? Perhaps Minmatar would be more appropriate?

Source: in game, Show Info on the Servant Sisters of EVE; select the Standings tab. They are considered enemies by Amarr and Caldari, allies by Gallente and Minmatar.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#1696 - 2013-10-15 06:07:44 UTC
Anthony Dvorak wrote:
The Servant Sisters of EVE are ostensibly considered enemies by the Amarr Empire. Why, then, have their ships using a combination of Gallente and Amarr skill bonuses? Perhaps Minmatar would be more appropriate?

Source: in game, Show Info on the Servant Sisters of EVE; select the Standings tab. They are considered enemies by Amarr and Caldari, allies by Gallente and Minmatar.


Guristas are the enemies of the Caldari. Why then do they use Caldari skills for their ships?
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#1697 - 2013-10-15 07:02:05 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Anthony Dvorak wrote:
The Servant Sisters of EVE are ostensibly considered enemies by the Amarr Empire. Why, then, have their ships using a combination of Gallente and Amarr skill bonuses? Perhaps Minmatar would be more appropriate?

Source: in game, Show Info on the Servant Sisters of EVE; select the Standings tab. They are considered enemies by Amarr and Caldari, allies by Gallente and Minmatar.


Guristas are the enemies of the Caldari. Why then do they use Caldari skills for their ships?



I guess they Keep what they Kill and make it better.

Any idea on how many LP's these puppies are gonna cost?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1698 - 2013-10-15 07:26:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
As has been said repeatedly.. If the Blaster/Drone combo is overpowered. Reduce the drone DPS and up the laser DPS. That ties it tighter to lasers which matches the stated design intent, as well as drops DPS a bit, since Laser DPS will be lower than the Blaster DPS, & tracking will be a bit worse at the blank point ranges people are talking to bump & drop heavy drone DPS instantly.
Alternatively applied drone DPS will be lower since heavies will have to travel. Giving the target time to counter web and pull range through higher base speed (assuming same number of webs almost any other cruiser fitted for PvP will pull range on the Stratios, especially if you MWD fit the Stratios for bumping, if you AB fit you then struggle to bump.) as well as lock & engage the heavy drones or Stratios directly before drone DPS gets applied.

Of course, all these 'OP' fits don't have an extended probe launcher, & most of them don't even have a normal probe launcher. So you aren't finding most of these supposed targets to start with and having that much DPS anyway. Unless you find someone ratting in low sec I guess. Which has always been a dicey game anyway.



Blasters and Drones?

For maybe 5km, you are banking a lot on targets being asleep at the switch. You have to deal with lock delay, and if you have prop+point+ web where exactly are you going to put the tank?

Considering that in order to get those big numbers you need x3 DDAs and an omni or two so you big damage drones actually hit something.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1699 - 2013-10-15 07:59:23 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
I wish people would stop saying this. It's just not accurate. Firstly, all ships keep the same align time after Rubicon as pre-rubicon. Warp speeds are irrelevant in this discussion.

Secondly, One word: BUMP. Getting tackle has never been an issue for a cloaky proteus, loki, or pilgrim. These ships are feared for a reason. Even with the targeting delay. It has always been this way and these ships have always been able to land the tackle.

I'm ignoring everything else in the discussion, simply because CCP probably won't do anything regarding balance changes until after these ships hit the test server, so discussion on that front is moot. So please, stop spreading disinformation regarding cloaky ships and tackle. Thousands of killmails prove the exact opposite of what you describe.

There's dozen of supercap kill mails ; there's even kill mail by velators. Relying on people stupidity or badness never proved anything.

You have 5, or most commonly 6 seconds of targeting delay, and then the targeting time, which is several seconds more. That leave you some time to react, and if your ship take that much time to warp out, you probably have enough staying power and firepower to give the Stratios a tough fight.

Unless you are an LP farmer or doing pve.

Blasters and heavy drones have high damage values. That's because they have very hard time applying them except for
Baali Tekitsu who is a l33t pvper and always apply 100% of them to its targets. Any normal people have to deal with the tracking formula, and ogres have poor tracking and poor speed.
Isinero
Perkone
Caldari State
#1700 - 2013-10-15 09:38:09 UTC
I would like to see SOE battleship ...