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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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David Kir
Hotbirds
#1661 - 2013-10-14 00:46:47 UTC
And there's the Gila and the Worm, crying in a corner...

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
MiMozO
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1662 - 2013-10-14 01:19:27 UTC
Quote:
I want more discussion on the topic of virus strength. More perspective would be nice, instead of the same 2 people posting over and over. Personally, I think the Astero is more exploration oriented, and the virus strength bonus doesn't seem that bad, but if it really overshadows T2 frigates that much, it might not be the best of ideas.

Why combat covert ops frigates should have virus strength bonus in the first place. Well, back there we didn't have anything dedicated to exploration, but now we have. I think T2 covops should be reworked to be a bit more of a combat ship. I would swap virus strength bonuses between T2covops and sisters ships. Leave exploration to explorers, no?
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1663 - 2013-10-14 05:06:56 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thread is full of people who blob gang all the time and don't understand the importance of effective and applied DPS, so they churn out crazy EFT fits that no one will ever use and say that "it gets 1000 DPS!!111 omgz1! op too stronk stronk! narf narf narf nao!" while not realizing that the effective, applied DPS is probably a third to half of that (330 - 500).


I can assure you that I understand the importance of applied DPS very well and I can assure you that Heavy Drones are able to hit web scrammed targets very well.

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1664 - 2013-10-14 06:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Why combat covert ops frigates should have virus strength bonus in the first place. Well, back there we didn't have anything dedicated to exploration, but now we have. I think T2 covops should be reworked to be a bit more of a combat ship. I would swap virus strength bonuses between T2covops and sisters ships. Leave exploration to explorers, no?[/quote]


Thank you! At last someone else says that really shouldn't exploration ships be the ones to explore?
I think part of the problem is a generational thing, people currently think of exploration as going out in a recreational vehicle (4x4) and going off road.

Older generations remember Admiring real explorers, no radios, no help nearer than a month away, even if they could find you, you carried everything you needed or you died, you used the best equipment of the day or you died.And often they died anyway.
The idea of taking something with you that was " good enough" was insane beyond belief.

These ships need to be for that type of explorer, They were our heroes.
Guns are for them to fight off the locals to get to the goal,whether npc or pc, not to be a soldier, cloak is to slip by camps in the forest, not to be special forces.
Think of Stanley and Livingstone or Columbus or James Cook. modern hollywood examples something more like Indiana Jones, not Rambo.
Cargo hold is for taking your camp with you, not for beer and ammo.

The difference is if all you think is gank, all you will see is how they can be fitted for gank.

Please do not change these ships into EVE's Rv's. or humvees. There are NO other ships in EVE capable of fully undertaking this sort of exploration role so comparisons are meaningless. these ships could be so easily downgraded or weakened and thereby become pointless.

CCP you are nearly nearly there with this, just remember to maximise all appropriate exploration bonuses, and remember what explorers would use them for. let us be explorers, let us be Heroic!

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1665 - 2013-10-14 07:11:02 UTC
Where's the SoE Battleship?!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#1666 - 2013-10-14 07:29:01 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Where's the SoE Battleship?!


+1 yup yup Big smile
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#1667 - 2013-10-14 07:32:44 UTC
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Where's the SoE Battleship?!


+1 yup yup Big smile

Dont think it will be here for Rubicon.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1668 - 2013-10-14 07:59:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Where's the SoE Battleship?!


+1 yup yup Big smile

Dont think it will be here for Rubicon.


Yey Big smile.But I don't want cloak on it. I want a laser based pirate BS that actually has a more dps than regular BS (Nightmare has tha same dps as Paladin and Adaddon)...
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1669 - 2013-10-14 08:44:09 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Because t3's are totally balanced...
While T3 are broken, the cloaky ones don't focus the complaints whereas they should do so if they were as scary as this Stratios is said to become.

As they are already existing in game and offer *exactly* what the Stratios will offer, we can assess what the effects of the Stratios will be : there will be no effect at all and the changes to interceptors and warp speed are way more game changing than this ship will ever be.

People fly a lot more 100MN AB T3 than cloaky ones, so the price and skill difference argument is moot. If cloaky ganky ship were to be of any threat, we would know it for years and there would be a trail of tears and threadnought on the forum ; yet the complaints about them focus on their insane tank, the nullifier subsystem, and mostly their ability to be better at a job than a specialized ship.

The Stratios will be none of that.

As for the price, there could be hundreds of missioners gathering LPs, they wouldn't sell for less 500isk/LP unless I'm largely underestimating the stupidity of people, and that would put the price of the Stratios to the level of T2 ships. Moreover, people will soon choose to mission for a faction with more valuable LP and price will settle to the average level in some months.

Cloaky ships running away never were the most dangerous ones, except for ratters.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1670 - 2013-10-14 11:04:59 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Then, the cloaky thing :
[Proteus, cloaky-gank+]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
107kehp, 637dps overloaded, cloak, extended scram range, double prop.
3 times the tank, 60% of the dps, and some goodies on top.
I personaly never saw one flying. I heard they act as heavy tacklefor wormhole dwellers or blops fleets, but that's all. The cloaky combat T3 maybe the one people complain the least about.

So, to sum up :
-High dps gank ship ? check, we have it ;
-cloaky brawler of doom ? check, we have it.
So what does the Stratios will bring we don't already have ?


And that's where it stops working, it isn't about the buffer, it is about the damage. 637 DPS are nothing while overloaded, that's an overloading thorax. The Stratios is going to be able to finish off the heavy tackle and escape from the rest of the gang while this proteus is not.

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Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1671 - 2013-10-14 11:14:48 UTC
David Kir wrote:
And there's the Gila and the Worm, crying in a corner...

+1

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#1672 - 2013-10-14 11:24:16 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Nightmare has tha same dps as Paladin and Adaddon)


On paper, yes. In practice it'll beat both because of the tracking bonus. That's also why the Apocalypse can give Abaddon a run for its money, even though it lacks any kind of direct damage bonus.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1673 - 2013-10-14 11:27:47 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
And that's where it stops working, it isn't about the buffer, it is about the damage. 637 DPS are nothing while overloaded, that's an overloading thorax. The Stratios is going to be able to finish off the heavy tackle and escape from the rest of the gang while this proteus is not.

Yet I've never seen any gank Ishtar or Navy Vexor despite their ability to do the same and people roaming solo in cruiser without cloak. And being able to kill your target is still required if you manage to tackle it, which is more easily said than done considering the ehp*dps of the Stratios barely reaching the one of Navy cruisers.

BTW, 600dps was considered very huge some times ago ; that was a high battlecruiser dps and people were ganking just fine with that.

But whatever. As such numbers are already possible for drone cruisers and cloaky cruiser with very high brawling ability already exists, can you explain how combining both will turn two barely existing types of ships into more than a bogeyman eating lone and unwary childrens in space ?
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1674 - 2013-10-14 12:43:38 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Nightmare has tha same dps as Paladin and Adaddon)


On paper, yes. In practice it'll beat both because of the tracking bonus. That's also why the Apocalypse can give Abaddon a run for its money, even though it lacks any kind of direct damage bonus.


True, but still it's nowhere near the Machariel...
Dyexz
Comrades in Construction
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#1675 - 2013-10-14 12:47:34 UTC
I'm not sure if this have been brought up yet.

CCP Rise wrote:


We're supporting that model with things like:
  • Covert cloaks
  • Exploration role bonuses
  • Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often
  • Extremely high ship agility
  • And more!

    • Anyways you guys can toy around with these specs and let me know what we missed or what you think would be better and I'll try to make everyone happy (which is usually easy).



    Although I think these Ships look really great with nice visuals, I do think that the Cargohold capacity does not quite fit the statement of 'Large Cargo'-capacity.

    Astero has 'only' 210 m³ Cargohold - not much more that the Amarr T2 Covert Ops ship (190 m³), less than the T1 Amarr Exploration frigate (400 m³).

    Stratios has 550 m³ Cargohold - only lightly more than average on T1 Cruisers.


    Ideas:

    1st. Increase the SOE exploration ships cargo capacity to maybe around, frigate: 250-300m³ and Cruiser: 675-750m³.

    2nd. reduce the volumes of some of the loot gained through Exploration, like: Carbon, Data Sheets, Eletronic Parts, Hydrogen Batteries, Eletronic Link, Spare Parts. these Items take up quite alot of space (1-2m³ pr/unit)
    Baali Tekitsu
    AQUILA INC
    Verge of Collapse
    #1676 - 2013-10-14 13:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Baali Tekitsu
    Bouh Revetoile wrote:

    Yet I've never seen any gank Ishtar or Navy Vexor despite their ability to do the same and people roaming solo in cruiser without cloak. And being able to kill your target is still required if you manage to tackle it, which is more easily said than done considering the ehp*dps of the Stratios barely reaching the one of Navy cruisers.


    I doubt you have seen many ships at all


    Bouh Revetoile wrote:

    But whatever. As such numbers are already possible for drone cruisers and cloaky cruiser with very high brawling ability already exists, can you explain how combining both will turn two barely existing types of ships into more than a bogeyman eating lone and unwary childrens in space ?

    1) No they dont, Stratios has 'til date the highest DPS possible without fitting fitting mods and sacrificing tank and by far the largest drone bay.
    Until now "cloaky brawling cruisers" were limited to one very expensive ship not suitable for solo because lol armor buffer.

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    TheFace Asano
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #1677 - 2013-10-14 15:09:33 UTC
    Any ETA on when these hit SiSi?
    Bouh Revetoile
    In Wreck we thrust
    #1678 - 2013-10-14 15:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
    Baali Tekitsu wrote:
    Bouh Revetoile wrote:

    But whatever. As such numbers are already possible for drone cruisers and cloaky cruiser with very high brawling ability already exists, can you explain how combining both will turn two barely existing types of ships into more than a bogeyman eating lone and unwary childrens in space ?

    1) No they dont, Stratios has 'til date the highest DPS possible without fitting fitting mods and sacrificing tank and by far the largest drone bay.
    Until now "cloaky brawling cruisers" were limited to one very expensive ship not suitable for solo because lol armor buffer.

    The Ishtar and Gila will do about the same dps, but I said it already. The Vigilant and Navy Exequror can have stupid dps too.

    BTW, the "shield or GTFO" era is done now, and the Stratios is not faster than an armor ship anyway.
    Woeful Animation
    Ascendent.
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #1679 - 2013-10-14 15:24:39 UTC
    Comments: Astero -- The cargo bay should be on par with the T-1 versions or at least a more reasonable mid point. 210 cargo over the 170 of the helios means I can run maybe three more relic sites and possibly one more data site.

    I can see the Astero being a real pain in the FW context.

    I know -- I know, turn down the flames and listen.

    1. It will become the premier LP farming platform. Four lows = four warp stabs. Cloaky for giggles and with full mobility. Put a shield extender and presto, little chance of an alpha strike. The only thing holding this back will be its price.

    2. Assume you wanted to fight with this thing. (Play along.) It has sick range 39 km or so, which can be pushed out to almost 48 km with a sensor booster. The four lows gives the player the ability to increase the damage. The mid layout allows for one extra module that a player can get creative. (I'm thinking EWAR) The high slot in fighting mode, creates a slot for a vamp or drone auxiliary links, maybe even a weapon of some sort, while still retaining the cloak.

    3. The idea of a plex is to hold the plex. The kill is a bonus and many times a necessity, but the kill isn't the ultimate goal. Holding the plex without having to warp off is the goal. This ship has the ability to either kill the stupid, or convince the other guy to seek life in another plex. Either way its a win. I could definitely see this as the pro Defensive Plexing go to ship. If this ship is in a plex on D-scan, most FW pilots will skip it, Its that good.
    XvXTeacherVxV
    Be Nice Inc.
    Prismatic Legion
    #1680 - 2013-10-14 17:34:43 UTC
    Woeful Animation wrote:


    I can see the Astero being a real pain in the FW context.

    I know -- I know, turn down the flames and listen.

    1. It will become the premier LP farming platform. Four lows = four warp stabs. Cloaky for giggles and with full mobility. Put a shield extender and presto, little chance of an alpha strike. The only thing holding this back will be its price.



    This a thousand times.

    Possible ways around it:

    - Ban these ships from novice FW plexes. At least then they're not doing anything a bomber can't.
    - Disable cloaking inside FW plexes. (even then, it has 4 stabs and the drones to kill FW rats))
    - Add debris fields near the button to hinder cloaking while running the site. (might cause some lag though).
    Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE