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Amarr/Minmatar zone - whats up at the moment?

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Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#241 - 2013-10-13 21:37:13 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
But it's okj to have a TD on every ship?

Where the **** does this stop? I mean in the end we'll all be going 'OHMAGERD YOU USED PROP MODS!' leading to 'WTF DUDE YOU UNDOCKED, UNDOCKING OP'

Fweddit live miles from gal/cal, reshipping is not an option. Would you roll to engage as much as possible or roll and get countered and be ok with dieing in a fire just so content was provided to the guys that can't be arsed to move 3 gates for a fight.



Nobody is so dense that they can be playing EVE longer than a few months and not know that engageability is a thing, especially for roams.

Christine plz


Considering the last two times we actually fought the Gallente, they had 9 Exequerors and one Oneiros to our 10 Augs when we brawled outnumbered 62 to 53 when they had the ability to reship, and 6 logi to their 12 or so between two fleets once again outnumbered which we lost due to reships, i'd say that our gang was pretty engagable especially when you can reship and easily sneak hard counters into the fight once it's started, which they did (well played btw). And no, i'm not trying to say we're eleet PVP ermagherd fighting outnumbered. I could really care less about the actual numbers, i'm just happy that they were willing to fight since that's the only way you get better.

Did you know that the SFI actually hard counters Panzers pretty hard if you used a different fit? Of course not, because you only fight what you know. Though I did give the fit to Sly Visionz, and explained how to fly it, though it seems like nothing ever came of it. The reason we fly our doctrines so well is because believe it or not, we've lost in them just as much as we've won in them. It's the nice thing about T1 cruisers being so cheap. LNA beat us in the hour and a half long brawl, before deciding that it's unbeatable, i'm pretty sure that i've lost more fights against Annah Kitheran than i've won, Amymuffmuff absolutely dunked me right before he left for WBR, I think we lost every engagement with Shadow Cartel and Balked as well.

My point is, when we laugh about our gangs being unbeatable, it's because we know they're not. Because we've lost in them quite a bit.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#242 - 2013-10-13 22:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Quote:
None of these guys who run <10 man gangs will fight our relatively giant fleets! FW sucks! We're picking up our toys and going to nullsec!

(a few months later...)
Quote:
We're back in FW! Hey... None of these guys who run <10 man gangs will fight our relatively giant fleets! FW sucks!

Story of J4LP~~

The Minmatar militia does not have any groups that can (or are willing) to counter fleets of 20-30+ people, with 5-6+ logis. In most cases, it's a matter of numbers. Remember that you have almost an order of magnitude advantage in numbers compared to most militia groups. And no, banding together is not an option for the Minmatar (have you seen how dysfunctional the militia is??).

If you want fights (and especially gudfites), you have to consider engageability. You can't fly a gang of 10 Dramiels and complain about getting no fights because you're so easily counterable by 10 Daredevils, because the number of people who are willing/able to bring out 10 Daredevils is pretty much nil. Bring 10 Rifters instead and you'll find plenty of fights. Alternatively, you can stick to the unengageable fleet and strut around claiming victory until someone drops several capital ships on it.

The trouble with J4LP's approach to FW ("we have this awesome force and you have to fight us") is that nobody has to fight. There is absolutely no reason to. The only impactful PvP encounter in FW is to plex down a system, and that is best countered with your own warp-stabbed and cloaked plexers, not with fights.

I'll stop rambling now.

tl;dr: know what your enemy will and won't fight, and adapt to it. If you put yourself in the position of the big fish in the small pond, you're gonna have a bad time. There's a huge difference between "our gang is fightable and beatable" and "our gang is fightable and beatable with :effort:".


Ed: I have been told to stop giving sound advice to the enemy. So, here's the plan: you guys need to fly more BS fleets, preferably cyno'd in using a titan. That would really establish your unquestionable superiority over the warzone and people will fight you left and right. Trust me.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#243 - 2013-10-13 22:24:15 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Quote:
None of these guys who run <10 man gangs will fight our relatively giant fleets! FW sucks! We're picking up our toys and going to nullsec!

(a few months later...)
Quote:
We're back in FW! Hey... None of these guys who run <10 man gangs will fight our relatively giant fleets! FW sucks!

Story of J4LP~~

The Minmatar militia does not have any groups that can (or are willing) to counter fleets of 20-30+ people, with 5-6+ logis. In most cases, it's a matter of numbers. Remember that you have almost an order of magnitude advantage in numbers compared to most militia groups. And no, banding together is not an option for the Minmatar (have you seen how dysfunctional the militia is??).

If you want fights (and especially gudfites), you have to consider engageability. You can't fly a gang of 10 Dramiels and complain about getting no fights because you're so easily counterable by 10 Daredevils, because the number of people who are willing/able to bring out 10 Daredevils is pretty much nil. Bring 10 Rifters instead and you'll find plenty of fights. Alternatively, you can stick to the unengageable fleet and strut around claiming victory until someone drops several capital ships on it.

The trouble with J4LP's approach to FW ("we have this awesome force and you have to fight us") is that nobody has to fight. There is absolutely no reason to. The only impactful PvP encounter in FW is to plex down a system, and that is best countered with your own warp-stabbed and cloaked plexers, not with fights.

I'll stop rambling now.

tl;dr: know what your enemy will and won't fight, and adapt to it. If you put yourself in the position of the big fish in the small pond, you're gonna have a bad time. There's a huge difference between "our gang is fightable and beatable" and "our gang is fightable and beatable with :effort:".


Ed: I have been told to stop giving sound advice to the enemy. So, here's the plan: you guys need to fly more BS fleets, preferably cyno'd in using a titan. That would really establish your unquestionable superiority over the warzone and people will fight you left and right. Trust me.


Nice try. Everyone knows that the Amarr are way more disorganized and dysfunctional compared to the Minmatar, which is why they're losing to the mighty WINMATAR. Fweddit is terrible an ineffective, stop trying to pretend that they actually know how to PVP.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#244 - 2013-10-13 22:31:51 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Nice try. Everyone knows that the Amarr are way more disorganized and dysfunctional compared to the Minmatar, which is why they're losing to the mighty WINMATAR. Fweddit is terrible an ineffective, stop trying to pretend that they actually know how to PVP.

I'm not saying they know how to PvP. They just give the impression of being hard to defeat, and need to stop that.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#245 - 2013-10-14 00:38:13 UTC
Are we talking here about the same militia I'm in? Maybe it's an eu/us tz differance...

Also Pixel, erm..... I know the differance. That fleet was just trying to cover bases in a warzone said to be pretty freakin hardcore. You may legitimately have not have had anything at the time to take it but what do they do, reship to frigates and come back across that distance?
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2013-10-14 03:02:11 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
But it's okj to have a TD on every ship?

Where the **** does this stop? I mean in the end we'll all be going 'OHMAGERD YOU USED PROP MODS!' leading to 'WTF DUDE YOU UNDOCKED, UNDOCKING OP'

Fweddit live miles from gal/cal, reshipping is not an option. Would you roll to engage as much as possible or roll and get countered and be ok with dieing in a fire just so content was provided to the guys that can't be arsed to move 3 gates for a fight.



Nobody is so dense that they can be playing EVE longer than a few months and not know that engageability is a thing, especially for roams.

Christine plz


Considering the last two times we actually fought the Gallente, they had 9 Exequerors and one Oneiros to our 10 Augs when we brawled outnumbered 62 to 53 when they had the ability to reship, and 6 logi to their 12 or so between two fleets once again outnumbered which we lost due to reships, i'd say that our gang was pretty engagable especially when you can reship and easily sneak hard counters into the fight once it's started, which they did (well played btw). And no, i'm not trying to say we're eleet PVP ermagherd fighting outnumbered. I could really care less about the actual numbers, i'm just happy that they were willing to fight since that's the only way you get better.

Did you know that the SFI actually hard counters Panzers pretty hard if you used a different fit? Of course not, because you only fight what you know. Though I did give the fit to Sly Visionz, and explained how to fly it, though it seems like nothing ever came of it. The reason we fly our doctrines so well is because believe it or not, we've lost in them just as much as we've won in them. It's the nice thing about T1 cruisers being so cheap. LNA beat us in the hour and a half long brawl, before deciding that it's unbeatable, i'm pretty sure that i've lost more fights against Annah Kitheran than i've won, Amymuffmuff absolutely dunked me right before he left for WBR, I think we lost every engagement with Shadow Cartel and Balked as well.

My point is, when we laugh about our gangs being unbeatable, it's because we know they're not. Because we've lost in them quite a bit.


Pardon my ignorance, but I'm Gallente and not particularly bright. What is a Panzer? Some new doctrine I've missed? Navy Augs?

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Le Creed
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2013-10-14 03:23:53 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
But it's okj to have a TD on every ship?

Where the **** does this stop? I mean in the end we'll all be going 'OHMAGERD YOU USED PROP MODS!' leading to 'WTF DUDE YOU UNDOCKED, UNDOCKING OP'

Fweddit live miles from gal/cal, reshipping is not an option. Would you roll to engage as much as possible or roll and get countered and be ok with dieing in a fire just so content was provided to the guys that can't be arsed to move 3 gates for a fight.



Nobody is so dense that they can be playing EVE longer than a few months and not know that engageability is a thing, especially for roams.

Christine plz


Considering the last two times we actually fought the Gallente, they had 9 Exequerors and one Oneiros to our 10 Augs when we brawled outnumbered 62 to 53 when they had the ability to reship, and 6 logi to their 12 or so between two fleets once again outnumbered which we lost due to reships, i'd say that our gang was pretty engagable especially when you can reship and easily sneak hard counters into the fight once it's started, which they did (well played btw). And no, i'm not trying to say we're eleet PVP ermagherd fighting outnumbered. I could really care less about the actual numbers, i'm just happy that they were willing to fight since that's the only way you get better.

Did you know that the SFI actually hard counters Panzers pretty hard if you used a different fit? Of course not, because you only fight what you know. Though I did give the fit to Sly Visionz, and explained how to fly it, though it seems like nothing ever came of it. The reason we fly our doctrines so well is because believe it or not, we've lost in them just as much as we've won in them. It's the nice thing about T1 cruisers being so cheap. LNA beat us in the hour and a half long brawl, before deciding that it's unbeatable, i'm pretty sure that i've lost more fights against Annah Kitheran than i've won, Amymuffmuff absolutely dunked me right before he left for WBR, I think we lost every engagement with Shadow Cartel and Balked as well.

My point is, when we laugh about our gangs being unbeatable, it's because we know they're not. Because we've lost in them quite a bit.


Pardon my ignorance, but I'm Gallente and not particularly bright. What is a Panzer? Some new doctrine I've missed? Navy Augs?


"Panzer Fleet" is just a cruiser doctrine that Iwhip + friends adopted.

It used to be Navy Omens/Mallers + Augorors. It's now Navy Augorors/Mallers + Augorors.
Almity
In Exile.
#248 - 2013-10-14 04:51:13 UTC
Best thread ever!
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#249 - 2013-10-14 07:33:09 UTC
Almity wrote:
Best thread ever!

It's like a series of trains all piling into the same giant wreck one after another.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#250 - 2013-10-14 11:58:33 UTC
Thus forming a giant pile of wreckage, tears and shitposting that will blot out the sun forever

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2013-10-14 13:54:48 UTC
Le Creed wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
But it's okj to have a TD on every ship?

Where the **** does this stop? I mean in the end we'll all be going 'OHMAGERD YOU USED PROP MODS!' leading to 'WTF DUDE YOU UNDOCKED, UNDOCKING OP'

Fweddit live miles from gal/cal, reshipping is not an option. Would you roll to engage as much as possible or roll and get countered and be ok with dieing in a fire just so content was provided to the guys that can't be arsed to move 3 gates for a fight.



Nobody is so dense that they can be playing EVE longer than a few months and not know that engageability is a thing, especially for roams.

Christine plz


Considering the last two times we actually fought the Gallente, they had 9 Exequerors and one Oneiros to our 10 Augs when we brawled outnumbered 62 to 53 when they had the ability to reship, and 6 logi to their 12 or so between two fleets once again outnumbered which we lost due to reships, i'd say that our gang was pretty engagable especially when you can reship and easily sneak hard counters into the fight once it's started, which they did (well played btw). And no, i'm not trying to say we're eleet PVP ermagherd fighting outnumbered. I could really care less about the actual numbers, i'm just happy that they were willing to fight since that's the only way you get better.

Did you know that the SFI actually hard counters Panzers pretty hard if you used a different fit? Of course not, because you only fight what you know. Though I did give the fit to Sly Visionz, and explained how to fly it, though it seems like nothing ever came of it. The reason we fly our doctrines so well is because believe it or not, we've lost in them just as much as we've won in them. It's the nice thing about T1 cruisers being so cheap. LNA beat us in the hour and a half long brawl, before deciding that it's unbeatable, i'm pretty sure that i've lost more fights against Annah Kitheran than i've won, Amymuffmuff absolutely dunked me right before he left for WBR, I think we lost every engagement with Shadow Cartel and Balked as well.

My point is, when we laugh about our gangs being unbeatable, it's because we know they're not. Because we've lost in them quite a bit.


Pardon my ignorance, but I'm Gallente and not particularly bright. What is a Panzer? Some new doctrine I've missed? Navy Augs?


"Panzer Fleet" is just a cruiser doctrine that Iwhip + friends adopted.

It used to be Navy Omens/Mallers + Augorors. It's now Navy Augorors/Mallers + Augorors.


I saw this fleet out in Black Rise a few nights ago. FWeddit was rolling about 30-40 guys all in Navy Augs + Augs when a TEST fleet was around. Things should get interesting with TEST and FWeddit going at it in Black Rise.

.
Mr Turing
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#252 - 2013-10-14 14:56:54 UTC
I don'tt FW threads on the eve-o because there is as much badposting as there is on kugu but with far less funny gifs.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#253 - 2013-10-14 15:06:29 UTC
If I can't badpost here where the **** do I bad post? :P
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#254 - 2013-10-14 16:16:05 UTC
Mr Turing wrote:
I don'tt FW threads on the eve-o because there is as much badposting as there is on kugu but with far less funny gifs.


We can make this like a kugu thread if you want.

Do you want to talk about Supers or Dominion sov?
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#255 - 2013-10-14 18:44:06 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
If I can't badpost here where the **** do I bad post? :P


I remember when people posted BRs and not just posting about posting.

Also, Amarr armor cruisers are the new unfightable meta. Maybe we should take nenn, since we only need a few navy augs and over 40% logi ratio to make gallente dock up.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#256 - 2013-10-14 19:01:44 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
If I can't badpost here where the **** do I bad post? :P


I remember when people posted BRs and not just posting about posting.

Also, Amarr armor cruisers are the new unfightable meta. Maybe we should take nenn, since we only need a few navy augs and over 40% logi ratio to make gallente dock up.


Touche sir, touche :D

I've found actually all you need recently to force at least Bio to dock up and ignore you is a firetail and hookbill. was in Bos last night and would they undock to kick me and shiva from a novice? Nope... 10 of them in local too :(

I'm sure they were afk, I really hope for their sake they were but the news is that they've all but failscaded anyway so I guess that's that from them.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#257 - 2013-10-14 23:56:05 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:

I'm sure they were afk, I really hope for their sake they were but the news is that they've all but failscaded anyway so I guess that's that from them.




I doubt it. They exist in a perennial state of fail cascade, bleeding 20-30 members per month as their new recruits realize what an awful bunch of shitlords they are, while they recruit about that same number to prop themselves up. They'll be around a d still be awful for some time to come I would imagine.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#258 - 2013-10-15 00:43:01 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:

I'm sure they were afk, I really hope for their sake they were but the news is that they've all but failscaded anyway so I guess that's that from them.




I doubt it. They exist in a perennial state of fail cascade, bleeding 20-30 members per month as their new recruits realize what an awful bunch of shitlords they are, while they recruit about that same number to prop themselves up. They'll be around a d still be awful for some time to come I would imagine.


Biohazard? No way, surely you're talking about another group of self-proclaimed winners of Minmatar FW.

The moar you cry the less you pee
praying mantis01
Death by Design.
#259 - 2013-10-15 09:15:44 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:

I'm sure they were afk, I really hope for their sake they were but the news is that they've all but failscaded anyway so I guess that's that from them.




I doubt it. They exist in a perennial state of fail cascade, bleeding 20-30 members per month as their new recruits realize what an awful bunch of shitlords they are, while they recruit about that same number to prop themselves up. They'll be around a d still be awful for some time to come I would imagine.


Fail cascade lol. I love these insignificant corps telling us how the corp is doing. The fact of the matter is bio is in a different league from pixi. Say what you like we still dominate in terms of fleets in eu tz sometimes reaching 30 from our alliance alone.

Amarr however dominate us tz due to fweddits prime which is why it has been difficult to defend systems as they are all hit in us tz.
praying mantis01
Death by Design.
#260 - 2013-10-15 09:20:27 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
If I can't badpost here where the **** do I bad post? :P


I remember when people posted BRs and not just posting about posting.

Also, Amarr armor cruisers are the new unfightable meta. Maybe we should take nenn, since we only need a few navy augs and over 40% logi ratio to make gallente dock up.


Touche sir, touche :D

I've found actually all you need recently to force at least Bio to dock up and ignore you is a firetail and hookbill. was in Bos last night and would they undock to kick me and shiva from a novice? Nope... 10 of them in local too :(

I'm sure they were afk, I really hope for their sake they were but the news is that they've all but failscaded anyway so I guess that's that from them.




If you think about it is a firetail and a hookbill worth undocking for?