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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1621 - 2013-10-12 14:24:40 UTC
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
I dont think, that they will get rebalanced in rubicom, i think CCP will finish first all t2 ships, then capitals and finally, maybe in summer 2014 or winter 2014, they will rebalance them


I would be very surprised if Pirate ships, including Pirate BS, weren't actually next on the list to be rebalanced. Especially considering the big effect they're having on The Marauder Rebalance™.

Quote:
back on toptic:

why do the ships need 2 spaceship command skills, and getting only ONE bonus per skill, they should get 2 bonuses per skill, like evry other ship.


You don't play EVE very much, do you? All Pirate ships (SoE ships fall into this category) require two racial ship skills and give only one bonus per each skill.

Quote:

possibile 2nd bonuses of the required skills:

- reduction to scantime of probes
- dronetracking and range (for Stratios)

And what is theyr cap recharge time?


Your first proposed bonus doesn't just step on the toes of CovOps and T3s - it shaolin-kicks them in the face. Your second proposed bonus seeks to completely obsolete both the Navy Vexor and the Ishtar. So, no.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1622 - 2013-10-12 17:30:42 UTC
I would like to whine about the mastery of the Stratios.

I am not liking the medium energy turrets mastery requirement for the ship .

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1623 - 2013-10-12 17:50:56 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I would like to whine about the mastery of the Stratios.

I am not liking the medium energy turrets mastery requirement for the ship .



have both cruiser Vs and T2 medium lasers.......its fine.


Plus if you don't want to use lasers, who cares about the mastery it does nothing performance at all.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#1624 - 2013-10-12 20:25:33 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'm just gonna leave this here...


I like this post so much I thought I'd quote it.

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Arec Bardwin
#1625 - 2013-10-12 21:24:22 UTC
Are the lp store offers out on sisi yet? Would be nice to know the approximate price these ships will end up having.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1626 - 2013-10-13 01:04:35 UTC
Quote:
How's this for better stats?


Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210


Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550


What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Quoting again as this got very positive feedback.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1627 - 2013-10-13 07:07:56 UTC
Yes it did, but absolutely no point to these ships whatsoever if they are not the best ships available to explore.
+ 10 virus strength and scanning bonused to match best with covert ops skill trained.
If they overshadow other non explorer ships at exploring so be it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1628 - 2013-10-13 09:07:58 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers
This topic has been beaten to death, continuing to bring it up will only raise hairs.
Nyancat Audeles wrote:

Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range

CCP Rise did mention that the lack of application bonuses were intentional.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1629 - 2013-10-13 12:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers
This topic has been beaten to death, continuing to bring it up will only raise hairs.
Nyancat Audeles wrote:

Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range

CCP Rise did mention that the lack of application bonuses were intentional.


I want more discussion on the topic of virus strength. More perspective would be nice, instead of the same 2 people posting over and over. Personally, I think the Astero is more exploration oriented, and the virus strength bonus doesn't seem that bad, but if it really overshadows T2 frigates that much, it might not be the best of ideas.

Could you link to the post where Rise mentioned that the lack of bonuses were intentional? Last I read, he said he would consider it.

You raise good points here, but I would like some more reasoning other than "it will raise hairs" and "because CCP Rise said so".

What do you think about the other changes, besides the two you pointed out?

Also, here's to the people whining about how Pirate ships are better than Navy or more improved than T3's or T2's... (as posted by someone above)
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1630 - 2013-10-13 12:55:54 UTC
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
In regards to the SoE BS, I had this sent to me yesterday Big smile

http://i.imgur.com/Ol2fDPC.jpg



I want it naw !! Lol

Some sort of organic lines looks interesting and makes me think about "wraiths" mother ships. This thing deserves some heavy laser/hybrid bonus, little drone support, cov ops cloak, jump drive and even fitting bay !!

Me wants it for Christmas CCP, DO IT !

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1631 - 2013-10-13 13:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
David Kir wrote:
The Gila just got stomped on, the Worm might as well not exist.


Got a worm once, sold it faster I could kill something worth with.

Got a Gila BPC, build it and tried to fit, I really mean I've tried several times and despite my elite core skills, some implants and whatnot crap couldn't make anything interesting, the thing gets its capacitor depleted too fast just moving around (highs empty !!)
Lacks tank CPU PG, less highs more lows/mids and a bit of base speed.

I'm probably doing it wrong, tying to like drone boats but I just can't, specially this one.


I'll probably get that SOE cruiser, looks a bit better than Gila already.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1632 - 2013-10-13 14:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Got a worm once, sold it faster I could kill something worth with.

Got a Gila BPC, build it and tried to fit, I really mean I've tried several times and despite my elite core skills, some implants and whatnot crap couldn't make anything interesting, the thing gets its capacitor depleted too fast just moving around (highs empty !!)
Lacks tank CPU PG, less highs more lows/mids and a bit of base speed.

I'm probably doing it wrong, tying to like drone boats but I just can't, specially this one.


I'll probably get that SOE cruiser, looks a bit better than Gila already.


Gila has quite a few useful fits though a little tight to fit you can do some pretty decent stuff without implants, it is relatively restricted to niche roles compared to other ships though.

Worm however... I just dunno what they were thinking.

I flew one on a null roam once just to say I'd flown one fit something like this:

[Worm, roam]
Domination Nanofiber Structure
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Shadow Serpentis 1MN Microwarpdrive
Domination Warp Disruptor
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II

Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5

Granted I suck at flying frigs but couldn't even put something useful in the highs - dropping nano for MAPC would have made it too slow, dropping a DDA would have reduced it to less than useful dps - just about everything seems to be wrong with the attributes on it - even its ability to fit a cruiser like tank is countered by not being able to actually do anything useful when fit like that i.e. has next to no damage.

And for those saying invuln should have been a web ;) it was in a roam with a dozen or so daredevils. (All but the bottom 2 kills here were from that roam http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=655284&m=9&y=2012&view=kills ).
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1633 - 2013-10-13 17:18:34 UTC
Does the Stratios stats not just obsolete the Arazu as a close in covert tackler?
I mean, it will outank it, out DPS it, and outscan it, while fitting the covert cloak.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1634 - 2013-10-13 17:52:32 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Does the Stratios stats not just obsolete the Arazu as a close in covert tackler?
I mean, it will outank it, out DPS it, and outscan it, while fitting the covert cloak.

But it has no tackle range bonus and no damp bonus.

I think the Stratios is insanely OP as it is now proposed, being able to easily fit 1044 DPS and a 31k EHP shield buffer tank pre links (scramweb).
Its basically one of those ships you cant conter in its own ship size.
Fit I used as reference:

[Stratios, maxdps]

Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Ogre II x5


Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-602


You could fit instead of the magstab a nano and push its aligntime below 4 seconds, sacrificing ~40 DPS and being able to fit a full t2 fit instead of the meta modules.

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1635 - 2013-10-13 18:03:24 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Does the Stratios stats not just obsolete the Arazu as a close in covert tackler?
I mean, it will outank it, out DPS it, and outscan it, while fitting the covert cloak.

But it has no tackle range bonus and no damp bonus.

I think the Stratios is insanely OP as it is now proposed, being able to easily fit 1044 DPS and a 31k EHP shield buffer tank pre links (scramweb).
Its basically one of those ships you cant conter in its own ship size.
Fit I used as reference:

[Stratios, maxdps]

Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Ogre II x5


Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-602


You could fit instead of the magstab a nano and push its aligntime below 4 seconds, sacrificing ~40 DPS and being able to fit a full t2 fit instead of the meta modules.

This "thing" will die to any cruiser or AF...
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1636 - 2013-10-13 18:07:08 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Does the Stratios stats not just obsolete the Arazu as a close in covert tackler?
I mean, it will outank it, out DPS it, and outscan it, while fitting the covert cloak.

But it has no tackle range bonus and no damp bonus.

I think the Stratios is insanely OP as it is now proposed, being able to easily fit 1044 DPS and a 31k EHP shield buffer tank pre links (scramweb).
Its basically one of those ships you cant conter in its own ship size.
Fit I used as reference:

[Stratios, maxdps]

Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Ogre II x5


Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-602


You could fit instead of the magstab a nano and push its aligntime below 4 seconds, sacrificing ~40 DPS and being able to fit a full t2 fit instead of the meta modules.

This "thing" will die to any cruiser or AF...


And what if I put more drones inside?
Please elaborate.

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1637 - 2013-10-13 18:49:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Baali Tekitsu wrote:

But it has no tackle range bonus and no damp bonus.

I think the Stratios is insanely OP as it is now proposed, being able to easily fit 1044 DPS and a 31k EHP shield buffer tank pre links (scramweb).
Its basically one of those ships you cant conter in its own ship size.
Fit I used as reference:

[Stratios, maxdps]

Internal Force Field Array I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Ogre II x5


Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-602


You could fit instead of the magstab a nano and push its aligntime below 4 seconds, sacrificing ~40 DPS and being able to fit a full t2 fit instead of the meta modules.


A decently fit gila could brawl that toe to toe and win easily due to having more tank, being able to pump out pure thermal damage through drones and HAMs (somewhat EFT warrioring there) while you'd be hitting against a resist profile its not too weak too thermal/kin.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1638 - 2013-10-13 19:13:48 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
And what if I put more drones inside?
Please elaborate.

Please, read the thread ?

Ogres in your fit account for something like 800 dps, which leave 250dps for neutron blasters (which won't apply if you are orbiting BTW).
5 bonused hammerheads with 3 DDAII do 400dps, which leave you with a 650dps cruiser with 32kehp.

A Vexor or a Moa can do that. And I'm not even talking about Navy cruisers or T2 ones which would eat this Stratios alive and can be fitted to achieve higer numbers. Nor do am I talking about the Proteus which is way better for brawl, even with a cloak, and haven't killed the game in several years.

And you have no resists BTW.

There's a reason why you don't see such gank fit in game. It's because they die horribly and ambarrassingly.

Basicaly people told the same kind of horror stories about a shield neutron thorax during the T1 cruiser rebalancing pass.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1639 - 2013-10-13 19:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
People keep saying "this ship is OP" and posting unrealistic max-gank fits that even the New Order wouldn't undock in. Fits that would explode in a ball of fiery death the second they're even targeted, let alone fired upon. Stop that.

Any ship can punch several levels above its weight class if you forget to bother with a tank.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1640 - 2013-10-13 19:33:26 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
And what if I put more drones inside?
Please elaborate.

Please, read the thread ?

Ogres in your fit account for something like 800 dps, which leave 250dps for neutron blasters (which won't apply if you are orbiting BTW).
5 bonused hammerheads with 3 DDAII do 400dps, which leave you with a 650dps cruiser with 32kehp.


Why would I use Medium Drones against anything larger than a destroyer?
The problem is this ship doesnt need to make any compromises, like the Cynabal or old Cane (largest guns, tank mods and full rack of damage modules? No problem!).
Youre left with a 1k DPS Cruiser with 31k EHP (shield) or a 775 DPS Cruiser with 54k EHP (armor), not to mention the ability to fit a tripple rep tank without using any fitting mods, which is unique among all cruiser hulls.
T3s should be rather counted as Battlecruisers or Battleships.

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