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minerbumping

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Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2013-10-13 11:47:53 UTC
Le Judge wrote:
Tears


Welcome to Eve. If losing space pixels causes you 'unnessecerry distress', you should probably quit. At the end of the day, it is just pixels, an interesting collection of ones and zeroes in some server architecture. The issue here is that Eve has never been and should never be a 'safe game', where you're always going to be safe from the predations of scumbags like me in certain areas of space. Eve has been a risk-vs-reward game, and the more money you make, the higher the risks that come with it. As I said earlier, me violencing your space pixels is not evil, so your quote kind of falls flat.

Le Judge wrote:
"All that is required for hilarity to prevail is for Carebears to not fit tank!"
Fixed the quote for you.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#162 - 2013-10-13 11:49:45 UTC
Le Judge wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
oh a PLEX in cargo anecdote, how credible.


You doubt the integrity of my post? Smile

Just ask D400 .. i'm sure he'd be willing to confirm this rich payday ;) unless he delete's his in-box the eve-mail
will still be there.. though I'm more confident he'd remember, as has been stated.. "you put PLEX in your cargo hold?"

Why is it your so fixated on some words, but not other? .. in the same sentence I had explained I was less than 7 days in.
Seems you read the words but fail to read the message.


you must admit it was a rather long post which is liable to be skimmed.

excuse my skepticism, but GD is no stranger to rather long winded and frequent posts on the subject of the moral imperatives of highsec ganking.

forums.  serious business.
Le Judge
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2013-10-13 12:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Le Judge
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Le Judge wrote:
Tears


Welcome to Eve. If losing space pixels causes you 'unnessecerry distress', you should probably quit. At the end of the day, it is just pixels, an interesting collection of ones and zeroes in some server architecture. The issue here is that Eve has never been and should never be a 'safe game', where you're always going to be safe from the predations of scumbags like me in certain areas of space. Eve has been a risk-vs-reward game, and the more money you make, the higher the risks that come with it. As I said earlier, me violencing your space pixels is not evil, so your quote kind of falls flat.

Le Judge wrote:
"All that is required for hilarity to prevail is for Carebears to not fit tank!"
Fixed the quote for you.


The entirely of my post had been on topic for "Minerbumping" and expressing my opinion.

You think I don't know it's a game?.. course I do, and I said so. ( LEARN TO READ )
causing me distress? .. course it's not and I said so, ( LEARN TO READ ) but I did say "after reading many forums" I can read for myself the effect the Order is having on many people in the course of playing "A GAME"

I don't suggest Eve to be a "Safe Game" .. where did I ever say that? ... But it's my opinion and I don't accept under any circumstance that I should have to ACCEPT an environment where gamers are left free to intimidate and extort ISK from people who only wish to "PLAY A GAME". Straight

You can window dress this all you like, hide behind your monitor and tell yourself whatever you wish to exempt yourself from responsibility of sometimes (even if only possibly) hurting others. But the fact remains, that is entirely what you are doing !
But i'm not concerned with the occasional ganker. Don't begin to put words into my post .. You really think that is what my post is all about? Me being ganked? ( LEARN TO READ )
I am explaining that it being "Organised" is my issue.. To the degree that many people are stepping up and joining the ranks of the gankers because they know they can get away with all manner of crap and push people around with impunity.
In a nut-shell all i'm saying is .. "I intend to push back!"

My beef is with the Order, or more specifically the "Code" .. the crap that is being force fed to us and shoveled out to justify unacceptable behavior on a massive scale. CCP are unable or unwilling to respond to it and I'm suggesting someone does.
But should you ask would it come as any surprise to me that some people would attempt to belittle my opinion? Miss-quote me entirely? Not in the slightest! Frankly I'd be surprised if it was not the case.

You'll have to get up very early to rattle my cage ! Blink
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#164 - 2013-10-13 13:17:12 UTC
Le Judge wrote:

Stuff...

You'll have to get up very early to rattle my cage ! Blink

I'm with you. They are a bunch of assholes. Remember, you can only express an opinion as long as you agree with them...If you don't you get dumped on with the usual pedantic drivel.

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2013-10-13 13:21:36 UTC
I got up pretty late today. My sleeping patterns aside your cage looks rattled.

Maybe stop getting angry about a computer-game?

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2013-10-13 13:25:19 UTC
Le Judge wrote:
Stuff



Then do something productive about it. If you're not going to accept it, then do something as opposed to whining on the forums. My shooting your ships should not be 'hurting' anyone. If shooting your ship 'hurts your feelings' then you need to take a step back and take a deep breath.

I personally don't intimidate miners, I don't extort them or abuse them. I shoot them in the face, and if they want to provide tears then that's well and good but I don't provoke them. Heck, I've landed on a new player mining and I've held my fire and talked them through what to do if a Catalyst lands in an ore field with them. I try my best to only shoot players who've been playing the game for long enough to know to fit tank and watch D.

In short, I don't push people around, I blow thier ships up but I don't consider that pushing them around.

Why exactly should CCP respond?
Minerbumping and suchlike is 'emergent gameplay', it generates content as indeed it's doing now.
Ultimately, CCP shouldn't need to patch lazy or patch stupid, you have the tools to protect yourself from gankers, it's just a matter of applying the correct resources to the situation.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2013-10-13 13:34:41 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
Le Judge wrote:

Stuff...

You'll have to get up very early to rattle my cage ! Blink

I'm with you. They are a bunch of assholes. Remember, you can only express an opinion as long as you agree with them...If you don't you get dumped on with the usual pedantic drivel.


I like them. They create content.

I ganked for a bit. It got boring so I moved on. If it had piqued my interest I would probably have joined them. I got the impression from their public chat that most of them are nice people. They play a videogame in an unconventional way. That doesn't make them assholes.

Also, you know that stuff typed in local is RP, right?

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#168 - 2013-10-13 14:06:29 UTC
What would you expect from a mitten alt.

We all know this isn't pathetic enough:

http://eve-dingo.com/coalition.php

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#169 - 2013-10-13 14:17:18 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
What would you expect from a mitten alt.

We all know this isn't pathetic enough:

http://eve-dingo.com/coalition.php

Are you saying friends are bad?
Lightspeed Champion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2013-10-13 14:37:03 UTC
Who is 'Mitten alt'?

Send any badposting-hate-mail to Sol Kal'orr. I promise to read it when I resub.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#171 - 2013-10-13 15:10:53 UTC
I got ganked and podded last week. this was entirely my fault, i should never have tried to swap my vexor out of the orca while drinking. i'm not even convinced this is possible in these situations. so i lost all my implants too (lol)

and of course the comedy fleet greeted me in usual style on their way out of the system.

like most eve players i'm just going to roll my eyes, maybe not bother with mining anymore (it's really nostalgia the money is awful) but I know a lot of newer players get really upset.

what i see is a lack of consequences for the gankers though. i get kill rights on them, and what use is that? they're already -10. they don't need to rat or tag up status to keep this going ad infinitim (AFAIK) and to me that's kind of bullshit. odyssey introduced tags for sec status so if you want to have an expensive hobby it's all good in the neighbourhood but come on this is sooo easy as it stands.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#172 - 2013-10-13 15:11:54 UTC
Be careful accusing anyone of being anyone else's alt. Especially Mittens, who is widely hated.

You could be deliberately misrepresenting someone else's identity, and therefore breaking the asinine new Terms of Service. I mean, if I were the guy you just accused, I'd report you in a heartbeat.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Le Judge
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2013-10-13 15:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Le Judge
Failed reply post .. Ugh still getting the hang of things in forum.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#174 - 2013-10-13 15:18:42 UTC
Quote:
what i see is a lack of consequences for the gankers though. i get kill rights on them, and what use is that? they're already -10. they don't need to rat or tag up status to keep this going ad infinitim (AFAIK) and to me that's kind of bullshit.


I'll go ahead and clarify this for you and for everyone.

The consequences are being able to be fired upon by ANY player anywhere free of consequence, and in being entirely unable to perform other aspects of the game. They are locked out of mining, missioning in highsec, hell, they are locked out of undocking in anything slow.

You don't see consequences because they have chosen to accept them, and operate within those parameters. A ganking alt (and by that I mean a neg ten) can only be used for ganking so long as they remain in highsec. They want to remain in highsec, because that's where the targets are.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#175 - 2013-10-13 15:26:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
what i see is a lack of consequences for the gankers though. i get kill rights on them, and what use is that? they're already -10. they don't need to rat or tag up status to keep this going ad infinitim (AFAIK) and to me that's kind of bullshit.


I'll go ahead and clarify this for you and for everyone.

The consequences are being able to be fired upon by ANY player anywhere free of consequence, and in being entirely unable to perform other aspects of the game. They are locked out of mining, missioning in highsec, hell, they are locked out of undocking in anything slow.

You don't see consequences because they have chosen to accept them, and operate within those parameters. A ganking alt (and by that I mean a neg ten) can only be used for ganking so long as they remain in highsec. They want to remain in highsec, because that's where the targets are.


yeah but they're alts so who cares?

are they locked out of station (once the timers run down) or will low/null > high gates lock them out? can they not use medical facilities in high sec?

i mean if we're relying on the player base of high sec to deal justice here then we may have a problem.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#176 - 2013-10-13 15:35:15 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


yeah but they're alts so who cares?

are they locked out of station (once the timers run down) or will low/null > high gates lock them out? can they not use medical facilities in high sec?

i mean if we're relying on the player base of high sec to deal justice here then we may have a problem.


They are alts, yes, but you're playing the metagame by saying that. The rules don't care about whose alt belongs to whom, or if a character is an alt in the first place. That's not possible in any case.

The character is restricted, the characters plays within those restrictions. Those characters can pretty much only be used for ganking once they hit neg ten, unless they pay to raise their sec status. And everyone can shoot at those characters.

That's the consequence.

In this case, I would conclude that the problem you, and many others have with ganking is the alt system, and not with anything to do with ganking.

Same problem people complaining about scams have, that the people who scam are alts and you can't really hurt them. Well, even being an alt used for that is a consequence in itself, as that alt is restricted in what it can do under those circumstances. If they choose to accept those consequences, and live within those restrictions to mitigate that, well, that is simply good gameplay.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#177 - 2013-10-13 15:42:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


yeah but they're alts so who cares?

are they locked out of station (once the timers run down) or will low/null > high gates lock them out? can they not use medical facilities in high sec?

i mean if we're relying on the player base of high sec to deal justice here then we may have a problem.


They are alts, yes, but you're playing the metagame by saying that. The rules don't care about whose alt belongs to whom, or if a character is an alt in the first place. That's not possible in any case.

The character is restricted, the characters plays within those restrictions. Those characters can pretty much only be used for ganking once they hit neg ten, unless they pay to raise their sec status. And everyone can shoot at those characters.

That's the consequence.

In this case, I would conclude that the problem you, and many others have with ganking is the alt system, and not with anything to do with ganking.

Same problem people complaining about scams have, that the people who scam are alts and you can't really hurt them. Well, even being an alt used for that is a consequence in itself, as that alt is restricted in what it can do under those circumstances. If they choose to accept those consequences, and live within those restrictions to mitigate that, well, that is simply good gameplay.


no i'm fine with the alt system, the horse has bolted on that one and eve is not really immersive anyway. i just feel that restrictions on criminals are too weak. it is my opinion that below a certain sec status threshold they should be locked out of high sec completely.

this won't stop ganking but it would make gankers consider before podding if they had to fork out 60M for clone soldier tags so they can get access.

i don't think this is unreasonable but i imagine it would be unpopular.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#178 - 2013-10-13 15:48:38 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


no i'm fine with the alt system, the horse has bolted on that one and eve is not really immersive anyway. i just feel that restrictions on criminals are too weak. it is my opinion that below a certain sec status threshold they should be locked out of high sec completely.

this won't stop ganking but it would make gankers consider before podding if they had to fork out 60M for clone soldier tags so they can get access.

i don't think this is unreasonable but i imagine it would be unpopular.



Idk about that. I listed off all the restrictions on criminals, and your only response was "They're alts, who cares?".

The restrictions do exist. In fact, they have been added on over and over again over nearly a decade of nerfs against ganking. The people who gank, as a result, have it down to a science, both in the actual act and in mitigating the consequences thereof.

The solution is not to keep adding more consequences. The solution is to stop feeling sad for bad players who don't fit tank, and to stop listening to them.

Noobs are going to die regardless. That's what they do.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#179 - 2013-10-13 15:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


no i'm fine with the alt system, the horse has bolted on that one and eve is not really immersive anyway. i just feel that restrictions on criminals are too weak. it is my opinion that below a certain sec status threshold they should be locked out of high sec completely.

this won't stop ganking but it would make gankers consider before podding if they had to fork out 60M for clone soldier tags so they can get access.

i don't think this is unreasonable but i imagine it would be unpopular.



Idk about that. I listed off all the restrictions on criminals, and your only response was "They're alts, who cares?".

The restrictions do exist. In fact, they have been added on over and over again over nearly a decade of nerfs against ganking. The people who gank, as a result, have it down to a science, both in the actual act and in mitigating the consequences thereof.

The solution is not to keep adding more consequences. The solution is to stop feeling sad for bad players who don't fit tank, and to stop listening to them.

Noobs are going to die regardless. That's what they do.


I wasn't ignoring your points i would have thought it obvious that running missions or mining on your -10 gank alt is for the clinically insane when you have a main to do it.

if people think nothing of podding you then it's too easy. end of. should eve be easy? forums say no. or forum is confused?

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#180 - 2013-10-13 15:57:31 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


I wasn't ignoring your points i would have thought it obvious that running missions or mining on your -10 gank alt is for the clinically insane when you have a main to do it.

if people think nothing of podding you then it's too easy. end of. should eve be easy? forums say no. or forum is confused?


Yes, but the consequences are not irrelevant just because people take steps to mitigate them.

And people, myself included, think nothing of podding because the difference between neg 5 and neg ten is basically nonexistent. So is the difference between 0.0 and however high that goes (never got there).

The problem there lies in the sec status system. I can't go any lower than neg ten, so why shouldn't I pod someone who is too ******** to warp out? No one should lose a pod in highsec, smartbomb ambush notwithstanding.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.