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Proposal: Simple fix for "Hot Drops"

First post
Author
Maddax Mcloud
Sons of Kronos
#1 - 2013-09-18 23:46:08 UTC
I have a simple suggestion that I think would drastically reduce "Hot Drops", and restore the Cyno to what I assume was it's original purpose.... a method of fast travel and strategic placement of forces, NOT as an active combat tactic.

Create a new Aggression Flag.... Any ship lighting a cyno or jumping thru a cyno, or any form of bridge (Titan and Covert), CAN NOT target anything for 1 minute. (or simply add this to the normal 1 min aggression timer that prevents gate jumping.)

If the Cyno ship has something locked, it should break their target locks (much like entering siege mode on a dreadnaught) and they should get the timer as well.

This should be a very simple thing to add, and not require much Dev time, as the mechanisms for this is already in the game.

This change does not nerf anything.... it simply would be too risky for people to "drop" directly on top of someone, as they would be sitting ducks for 1 minute. Instead, they can still drop into a system, but it would have to be done at a safe spot, and then the entire fleet warp into the battle.

Yes I realize this would not completely eliminate hot drops.... it could still be done, but would require 2 ships instead of 1.... a cyno ship, and a tackle ship. and at least the Victim(s) have a chance to kill or jam out the tackle ship and get away during the 1 minute timer.

It sure would be nice to go back to the days of normal roaming fleets, instead of suddenly getting 50 guys dropped on your head out of no where, from many light years away, with absolutely no possible defense or escape.

While your at it, it would not hurt to make the Cyno Jammer mod for the POSs also block covert cyno's. As it is now, its an insane cost added to SOV bills, and is almost worthless, as people can still drop in a 100 man SB fleet and kill a cyno jammer in 5 minutes or less.

Thanks.
James Razor
RazorEnterprise
#2 - 2013-09-18 23:47:24 UTC
Uhm... i dont know about u, but i never thought of hotdrops being something that needs fixing.

Force Projection on the other side....

Old Bitter Veteran.

Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-09-19 01:42:45 UTC
So...what your asking is to make the deployment of capitals for any purpose other than structures to be pointless. The fleet who deploys their capital fleet first on field gets a MASSIVE advantage over the second to arrive who has to wait out 60 seconds of being cyno-falconed. Good luck ever disloging a sov-holder when the aggressor is going to welp caps without firing a shot.

Blackops ships are the most fragile bs hulls in the game, their best use is in deploying cloakable fragile ships into combat and fast ganking enemy ships and gtfo because if they get caught they die. Your change would deny them the only real thing they have going for them.

And finally: here is the obligatory doll. Please point to the location the hot-drop touched you.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#4 - 2013-09-19 04:25:19 UTC
Maddax Mcloud wrote:
I have a simple suggestion that I think would drastically reduce "Hot Drops", and restore the Cyno to what I assume was it's original purpose....

That is its purpose. To be an entry point for capitals/blackops, regardless of the activity thereafter pursued.

NEXT!!!!

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#5 - 2013-09-19 13:40:30 UTC
James Razor wrote:
Uhm... i dont know about u, but i never thought of hotdrops being something that needs fixing.

Force Projection on the other side....

Like this dude said.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Naj Panora
The Seekers of Ore
#6 - 2013-09-28 05:02:03 UTC
I like the over all premise of the OP. Some of the concerns voiced are legit some I'm sure is Coalition for Cowards trolling.

Now to maybe improve on the OP idea. Make the timer for subcaps so bridges are more for tactical positioning of subcap fleets instead of a way to blob some one. Caps would not have this timer and my logic for that is if you drop a cap fleet on a sub cap fleet it will take much longer for cap pilots to target the sub caps (at this point I'm theory crafting seeing as I have yet to use a cap in a fight).

Now I would say cut the targeting timer for sub caps to about 30 seconds.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-09-28 11:41:32 UTC
Why do defenders, and above all, supercapitals, need such a tremendous buff?
Naj Panora
The Seekers of Ore
#8 - 2013-09-29 03:22:18 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Why do defenders, and above all, supercapitals, need such a tremendous buff?


How is any of this a supercap buff?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#9 - 2013-09-29 05:11:22 UTC
Delete cynos.

Problem solved.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-09-29 17:23:35 UTC
Naj Panora wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Why do defenders, and above all, supercapitals, need such a tremendous buff?


How is any of this a supercap buff?



If you go and drop a big pile of dreads/titans/whatever onto a lone super, or even a fleet of them, it/they have a full minute to jump out before you can actually engage. How is 'here is a free sixty second bug out timer' not a buff?
Friggz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-10-10 23:23:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Friggz
Maddax Mcloud wrote:

This change does not nerf anything....



Yes it does nerf something. Cynos. That's the entire point of your suggestion. Your suggestion specifically exists solely for the purpose of nerfing cynos.

Come out and say it. Have conviction for your ideals. Don't start backpedaling before you've even begun. If you believe Cynos have to be nerfed, then convince me.

Good luck on that, though. Your suggestion is so completely rediculous and over the top that I'm not even going to bother aguing against it.
Gekkoh
Circle of Steel Inc.
#12 - 2013-10-11 21:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gekkoh
Alternatively, allow black ops cynos to be blocked by the new cyno jammer module.

One ship, roaming around cloaked and nullified (i.e., practically invulnerable), shouldn't be able to project fleet sized power at will, while risking very little in return. Black Ops BS might be weaker than a normal BS, but they also can drop on a target, obliterate it in a few seconds, and then clock up, warp to a safe, and hide in complete invulnerability to retaliation.

Or, make cov ops cloaks disallow the use of cynos for X amount of time after the cloak is disengaged.

Something, anything, to put an end to this cheap mechanic that enables people to gank while avoiding risky PvP to do so.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2013-10-11 21:42:44 UTC
Gekkoh wrote:
Alternatively, allow black ops cynos to be blocked by the new cyno jammer module.

One ship, roaming around cloaked and nullified (i.e., practically invulnerable), shouldn't be able to project fleet sized power at will, while risking very little in return. Black Ops BS might be weaker than a normal BS, but they also can drop on a target, obliterate it in a few seconds, and then clock up, warp to a safe, and hide in complete invulnerability to retaliation.

Or, make cov ops cloaks disallow the use of cynos for X amount of time after the cloak is disengaged.

Something, anything, to put an end to this cheap mechanic that enables people to gank while avoiding risky PvP to do so.



You see, the BLOPS things was to allow small groups to hit targets, soft and what not, and cause disruption of a an alliance. You know, gorilla tactics.

It is working as intended.
Gekkoh
Circle of Steel Inc.
#14 - 2013-10-12 08:51:52 UTC
Baaldor wrote:

You see, the BLOPS things was to allow small groups to hit targets, soft and what not, and cause disruption of a an alliance. You know, gorilla tactics.

It is working as intended.


Do you have a source for that statement?


Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2013-10-12 11:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
Gekkoh wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

You see, the BLOPS things was to allow small groups to hit targets, soft and what not, and cause disruption of a an alliance. You know, gorilla tactics.

It is working as intended.


Do you have a source for that statement?





The years of wailing to the CSM and CCP to allow the "little" guy to have have the ability to poke the "big" guy in 0.0 using small groups of players.

The problem like most ideas the player base come up with is the fact they are so focused on what they want in a such a narrow view, they do not even understand that once you allow this to be, EVERYONE, including the bad guys you and others want to nerf so badly will take the same tactics and punish you with it.

And thus this swirls own the shitter as the push continues for a e-honor solution to have WoT type conflict that is arbitrary and artificial.

Tl;dr:

The game is too hard, I want to change the rules..
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-10-12 12:31:31 UTC
New rule: people I like have a 99% resist, speed and lock range bonus and
New rule: people I don't like have a 99% DPS, speed and lock range penalty

At last, with this simple fix, EVE is finally perfect.




"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Gekkoh
Circle of Steel Inc.
#17 - 2013-10-12 21:30:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
New rule: people I like have a 99% resist, speed and lock range bonus and
New rule: people I don't like have a 99% DPS, speed and lock range penalty

At last, with this simple fix, EVE is finally perfect.


What an incredibly non-constructive post.

Could you please address the original issue itself, instead of making sarcastic comments that add absolutely nothing to the discussion?

Cynos are a way to project power across many systems. Combined with T3 nullified cloaked ships that are practically invulnerable, we have a situation where that projected power can be brought to bear with little risk in return. After the warp changes are put into effect, we'll also have to deal with cov ops ships that can enter a system and warp to an asteroid cluster in 10 to 15 seconds, and light a cyno.

That isn't much time to react.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2013-10-12 22:48:34 UTC
Perhaps you should have some combat support ships to counter these fast cyno ships... such as, but not limited to...

- Griffin/Kitsune support: people can't kill anything they can't pin down. With the cyno ship jammed (and thus unable to point anything) it takes a good 5 to 10 seconds after the cyno ship has landed, decloaked, and popped the cyno for people to jump in and load grid... by which time you should be gone (because you should have been aligned and/or aware of hostiles in system due to local).

- Artillery support: scared of that Stealth Bomber or Interceptor? Have 2 sensor boosted Thrashers fit with artillery on-grid with you. Pop the sucker as soon as he/she lands (which should be easy as these ships don't have a tank... even when tanked).
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2013-10-13 00:08:38 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
.. by which time you should be gone (because you should have been aligned and/or aware of hostiles in system due to local).


Local is a great if you are not NRDS...however these guys are and thus self inflicted.

Gekkoh
Circle of Steel Inc.
#20 - 2013-10-15 02:16:15 UTC
NRDS only applies to shooting people, it doesn't mean we just merrily go about mining while neuts are in system. A neutral that pops into local provokes the exact same response as a red, so I'm not sure what impact that has on anything.

The big difference is that we're close to empire space, and have a high population. There are people constantly roaming around looking for targets. And that's fine, it's far more fun than living in deep null where you can go 10 systems without seeing another player.

Sure, it adds risk, but risk = fun... up to a point. Once you reach that point, people stop risking things and go elsewhere. Then nobody has fun, even the people doing the drops, because there are less targets to shoot at.



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