These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Marauders and Incursions
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Railok Skor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-10-08 19:42:32 UTC
Since the announcement of Rubicon, the marauders are getting a major changes like with the ability to transform. I been looking to get into a Vargur for a HQ shield fleet for some time before Rubicon was announced, so, with this update, are they worth to get for incursions?
Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#2 - 2013-10-08 21:22:18 UTC
They are already in test phases.

The discussion is going on in this topic atm.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3711365#post3711365
Julius Priscus
#3 - 2013-10-10 19:31:58 UTC
Railok Skor wrote:
Since the announcement of Rubicon, the marauders are getting a major changes like with the ability to transform. I been looking to get into a Vargur for a HQ shield fleet for some time before Rubicon was announced, so, with this update, are they worth to get for incursions?



I could be wrong but I thought bastion mode = no rr's
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-10-10 20:07:53 UTC
Julius Priscus wrote:


I could be wrong but I thought bastion mode = no rr's


Bastion has potential for stupidly huge tanks though, so it may be possible to keep ships up without dedicated logis or any RR at all. Needs testing.
Julius Priscus
#5 - 2013-10-11 01:45:42 UTC
Mia Restolo wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:


I could be wrong but I thought bastion mode = no rr's


Bastion has potential for stupidly huge tanks though, so it may be possible to keep ships up without dedicated logis or any RR at all. Needs testing.



don't incursiosn have stupid nutty nuets ???
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2013-10-11 09:55:19 UTC
Julius Priscus wrote:
Mia Restolo wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:


I could be wrong but I thought bastion mode = no rr's


Bastion has potential for stupidly huge tanks though, so it may be possible to keep ships up without dedicated logis or any RR at all. Needs testing.



don't incursiosn have stupid nutty nuets ???

Don't marauders have massive cargo bays...

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#7 - 2013-10-11 10:20:02 UTC
Railok Skor wrote:
Since the announcement of Rubicon, the marauders are getting a major changes like with the ability to transform. I been looking to get into a Vargur for a HQ shield fleet for some time before Rubicon was announced, so, with this update, are they worth to get for incursions?


Vargur is still bad for HQ, less dps, less ehp, less drones, less speed than the mach, I wouldn't bother.

The only thing that changes is that now Kronos and Paladin are now fairly pointless for VGs to, similar to Golem and Vargur.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-10-11 17:02:11 UTC
When first announced, they could solo tank vanguards, but otherwise were inferior in every way to pirate battleships for incursions.

After the changes, they can no longer solo tank vanguards and are still vastly inferior to the pirate battleships for incursions. not a single one of them does anything that either a vindicator, machariel, or nightmare can't do better.

thhief ghabmoef
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#9 - 2013-10-11 17:43:00 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
When first announced, they could solo tank vanguards, but otherwise were inferior in every way to pirate battleships for incursions.

After the changes, they can no longer solo tank vanguards and are still vastly inferior to the pirate battleships for incursions. not a single one of them does anything that either a vindicator, machariel, or nightmare can't do better.



The changes were reverted.

Now having said that, I just built up a Paladin on the test server that has 1051DPS. My shiny Nightmare on live does like 1080ish gun DPS (more soon, but I could make the same changes to the paladin as well) but I don't have large beam spec V on the test server. Obviously this is only one example but it proves that it might work. Comes down to how much tracking/scan res I can shoehorn into it.
Kate stark
#10 - 2013-10-11 19:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
The Djego wrote:
Railok Skor wrote:
Since the announcement of Rubicon, the marauders are getting a major changes like with the ability to transform. I been looking to get into a Vargur for a HQ shield fleet for some time before Rubicon was announced, so, with this update, are they worth to get for incursions?


Vargur is still bad for HQ, less dps, less ehp, less drones, less speed than the mach, I wouldn't bother.

The only thing that changes is that now Kronos and Paladin are now fairly pointless for VGs to, similar to Golem and Vargur.


but the vargur does have more tracking...

and this is how they stack up using fairly entry level mostly t2 fits.
no implants, siege/skirm booster, all skills V

edit, with a quick fiddle if you drop the thermal rig, the em amp and get another invuln and another CDFE you equal up the ehp but you're still down on every stat that isn't tracking...

so basically for equal ehp, better tracking and worse everything else... pick a vargur!

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Julius Priscus
#11 - 2013-10-11 19:51:15 UTC
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
When first announced, they could solo tank vanguards, but otherwise were inferior in every way to pirate battleships for incursions.

After the changes, they can no longer solo tank vanguards and are still vastly inferior to the pirate battleships for incursions. not a single one of them does anything that either a vindicator, machariel, or nightmare can't do better.



The changes were reverted.

Now having said that, I just built up a Paladin on the test server that has 1051DPS. My shiny Nightmare on live does like 1080ish gun DPS (more soon, but I could make the same changes to the paladin as well) but I don't have large beam spec V on the test server. Obviously this is only one example but it proves that it might work. Comes down to how much tracking/scan res I can shoehorn into it.




ship fit ?
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#12 - 2013-10-12 08:32:39 UTC
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
When first announced, they could solo tank vanguards, but otherwise were inferior in every way to pirate battleships for incursions.

After the changes, they can no longer solo tank vanguards and are still vastly inferior to the pirate battleships for incursions. not a single one of them does anything that either a vindicator, machariel, or nightmare can't do better.



The changes were reverted.

Now having said that, I just built up a Paladin on the test server that has 1051DPS. My shiny Nightmare on live does like 1080ish gun DPS (more soon, but I could make the same changes to the paladin as well) but I don't have large beam spec V on the test server. Obviously this is only one example but it proves that it might work. Comes down to how much tracking/scan res I can shoehorn into it.



A proper fitted armor Paladin(I fly them everyday) does 1560 dps currently, with the changes it loses 120 dps, a lot of speed, ehp(what is quite a bit for a HG slaved pala with a T2 Trimark and full gang/gang link bonuses) and the 90% web(most awful change ever) for a the ability to fit a module what is fairly useless for Incs and at least in my opinion also for most other pve stuff(L4 included, since marauders can do them fine with 2-3 slots of tank today, fit a mwd instead of mjd anyway and do a lot better with a set of sentry's then light drones).

The ability to solo tank VGs is pointless, since you will waste to much slots for tank and will be slower than a any proper fleet with logis.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Julius Priscus
#13 - 2013-10-12 08:40:41 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
When first announced, they could solo tank vanguards, but otherwise were inferior in every way to pirate battleships for incursions.

After the changes, they can no longer solo tank vanguards and are still vastly inferior to the pirate battleships for incursions. not a single one of them does anything that either a vindicator, machariel, or nightmare can't do better.



The changes were reverted.

Now having said that, I just built up a Paladin on the test server that has 1051DPS. My shiny Nightmare on live does like 1080ish gun DPS (more soon, but I could make the same changes to the paladin as well) but I don't have large beam spec V on the test server. Obviously this is only one example but it proves that it might work. Comes down to how much tracking/scan res I can shoehorn into it.



A proper fitted armor Paladin(I fly them everyday) does 1560 dps currently, with the changes it loses 120 dps, a lot of speed, ehp(what is quite a bit for a HG slaved pala with a T2 Trimark and full gang/gang link bonuses) and the 90% web(most awful change ever) for a the ability to fit a module what is fairly useless for Incs and at least in my opinion also for most other pve stuff(L4 included, since marauders can do them fine with 2-3 slots of tank today, fit a mwd instead of mjd anyway and do a lot better with a set of sentry's then light drones).

The ability to solo tank VGs is pointless, since you will waste to much slots for tank and will be slower than a any proper fleet with logis.


how do you get a full flight of sentries on a paladin?

and how the heck do you get 1560 dps ???
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#14 - 2013-10-12 08:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
"how do you get a full flight of sentries on a paladin?

and how the heck do you get 1560 dps ???"



No idea!

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#15 - 2013-10-12 09:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
With this fit you get 1560 dps(both 6% imp included), it is basically the best armor Inc ship in the game(high dps, range, 90% web and RR capability), at least till the nerf.

[Paladin, Armor > Shield]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Domination Target Painter

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II


Garde II x3

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#16 - 2013-10-12 12:49:46 UTC
To the OP, read some of my posts in the server feedback thread.
I have tested the Paladin on Sisi in an NMC and VG.

Everything The Djego stated is 100% accurate.

But any group testing of Incursions by me is now DOA.
It appears I simply cannot get a critical mass of 10 homogeneous ships plus booster.

To those that helped out, thanks for the effort.
For those that have thought "my Incursion Marauders will be fine after Nov 19th", you are in for a rude surprise.
Any number of ships will far outclass the Paladin after Nov 19th, and likely the Kronos as well.

My Kronos, with the Bastion module on (which as The Djego explained is useless in Incursions), has a range of 6.3 optimal + 29.7 falloff with antimatter with 1 optimal TC. The effective DPS (not paper) of that is still utter **** compared to so many other ships.
My Paladin, has far better effective range and DPS, and that is still complete garbage without the web bonuses.
Julius Priscus
#17 - 2013-10-12 18:27:01 UTC
so basically no real tank to speak of...

and another account remote repping does not count. :)
Julius Priscus
#18 - 2013-10-12 18:28:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
To the OP, read some of my posts in the server feedback thread.
I have tested the Paladin on Sisi in an NMC and VG.

Everything The Djego stated is 100% accurate.

But any group testing of Incursions by me is now DOA.
It appears I simply cannot get a critical mass of 10 homogeneous ships plus booster.

To those that helped out, thanks for the effort.
For those that have thought "my Incursion Marauders will be fine after Nov 19th", you are in for a rude surprise.
Any number of ships will far outclass the Paladin after Nov 19th, and likely the Kronos as well.

My Kronos, with the Bastion module on (which as The Djego explained is useless in Incursions), has a range of 6.3 optimal + 29.7 falloff with antimatter with 1 optimal TC. The effective DPS (not paper) of that is still utter **** compared to so many other ships.
My Paladin, has far better effective range and DPS, and that is still complete garbage without the web bonuses.



so they will get worse?
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#19 - 2013-10-13 00:53:14 UTC
Julius Priscus wrote:
so basically no real tank to speak of...

and another account remote repping does not count. :)


Modern Incursion fits are pure gank with the bare minimum tank, that you need take the alpha and allow the logis to RR you. The reason for this is that it increases site times and makes you competitive in contests.

Also yes, marauders get worse with the changes.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2013-10-13 19:21:17 UTC
Julius Priscus wrote:
Railok Skor wrote:
Since the announcement of Rubicon, the marauders are getting a major changes like with the ability to transform. I been looking to get into a Vargur for a HQ shield fleet for some time before Rubicon was announced, so, with this update, are they worth to get for incursions?



I could be wrong but I thought bastion mode = no rr's


so don't use bastion mode. not using it won't change performance, as its main use is the tank bonus.

although the loss of speed, drone bay, and web bonuses all hurt. although it sounds like they will be reverting some of that.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter