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Medium POS Defence: Impossible?

Author
I am Placeholder
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-07 04:25:03 UTC
I'm putting up a medium POS and I'm deciding on the defences. I play solo, so actively defending it beyond the POS Gunnery skill (which I will probably train soon) is not really an option. Is it even worth putting guns on it? I've got a medium amarr tower at full capacity that can only do 1080 DPS. A single battleship properly fit could easily tank that.

What are my options? I've read that even ECM batteries can be fairly useless as they cycle, and as medium tower as a limited powergrid I can only put up so many. They could just warp to an undefended part of the shield at range... The only other thing I've thought about are hardeners - making it take as long as possible to kill to dissuade attackers. Is it recommended just to have no guns on a medium?
Aenaenon
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#2 - 2013-10-07 06:04:56 UTC
In what security space are you placing the tower? As a solo player, it is very hard to defend a tower from a determined attacker. However, you certainly want hardeners and some form of defense on your tower, if only to make it more of a pain to destroy than players are willing to put effort into.

If you are deploying in hisec, you can leave most of them offline and wait for a wardec to turn them on. You don't need large guns as you won't face any capitals. Annoyotron style defenses like ECM, Sensor Damps and the like supplimented by a few small/medium guns will repel light and most medium sized attacks. Again, if they really want to kill it, they will. You may want to even consider just pulling it down if you get wardecced by a group that you cannot handle.

In low/null, you won't be defending a medium by yourself. You can repel light attacks with ECM/Damps/Hardeners but if they bring capitals, that tower is going to die since you cannot call for reinforcements.

POS defenses activate at long ranges so you need not worry about them sitting out of range, especially with damps making them come closer to shoot at your stuff. I prefer to use the long range variants on guns, particularly the small ones, just to be safe.
are34
New Eden Corporation 98773700
New Eden Alliance 99013620
#3 - 2013-10-07 08:56:47 UTC
add me as a contact, set up as many posses in lowsec as you want, if anyone attacks them let me know when they ome out of reinforced and we will be there to defend them.
I am Placeholder
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-07 10:41:10 UTC
are34 wrote:
add me as a contact, set up as many posses in lowsec as you want, if anyone attacks them let me know when they ome out of reinforced and we will be there to defend them.


0/10
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#5 - 2013-10-07 11:50:46 UTC
With all due respect, if you need to ask on the forum you probably shouldn't be attempting it.

The DPS output being tankable by 1 BS is nonsense - any tower with defenses is merely a speed bump to almost any capable group - the real question is if they can get a fight out of it or whether attacking it has any value.

Now if you're moon mining then expect trouble on anything rarity 32 and up fairly regularly. I wouldn't waste time on defenses personally unless it is just to annoy people - hardeners and ECM being the most annoying.
If your tower is for anything else then I'd question is it really necessary? Building caps is a no-no, reactions is rarely worth the effort on medium towers, making combat boosters if probably unwise solo, nullsec is just asking to be squashed, base of operations is only really worthwhile in a wormhole. So do you really need it?

Your problem is by coming to the forum and announcing you are solo raising a tower that you admit to being indefensible you just added perceived value to any pirate group who reads this and casually wants to ransom you. If thats your intention (baiting) then ok. Otherwise its just daft.

Some things are best just done and not talked about in order to gain experience. At the end of the day towers are really cheap (especially for their massive EHP) so you have very little to really lose. Good luck.
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#6 - 2013-10-07 17:35:59 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
With all due respect, if you need to ask on the forum you probably shouldn't be attempting it.


I disagree, asking for advice is great.


Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Your problem is by coming to the forum and announcing you are solo raising a tower that you admit to being indefensible you just added perceived value to any pirate group who reads this and casually wants to ransom you. If thats your intention (baiting) then ok. Otherwise its just daft.


Sir I think you missed the name of the character. Once he receives the info he wants that toon will likely be biomassed. Or maybe parked in a deep corner of high sec just to troll people. Either way, this toon will not lead you to the actual tower, so he's not endangering himself at all.

Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Some things are best just done and not talked about in order to gain experience. At the end of the day towers are really cheap (especially for their massive EHP) so you have very little to really lose. Good luck.


He's right there, the tower itself isn't that big of an expense (if it is then you shouldn't put one up). If you're in high sec, if you're doing anything valuable in the POS then large or go home. If you're doing expendable things (like researching BPO's that are parked in the station corp office) then you can go with lots of ECM and hardeners. Basically make it so that when people look at it, they decide attacking is not worth their time.

No matter what you do, if people really want to blow it up they will. So you just have to make it so they don't want to bother.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#7 - 2013-10-08 02:06:37 UTC
there is no pos that can stand alone against serious attack, so to really defend pos you will need some fleet action too.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-10-08 05:51:35 UTC
I am Placeholder wrote:
are34 wrote:
add me as a contact, set up as many posses in lowsec as you want, if anyone attacks them let me know when they ome out of reinforced and we will be there to defend them.


0/10


He's not trolling fwiw

it's not about defending you, but about getting fights

.

I am Placeholder
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-10-08 05:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: I am Placeholder
Katherine Raven wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Your problem is by coming to the forum and announcing you are solo raising a tower that you admit to being indefensible you just added perceived value to any pirate group who reads this and casually wants to ransom you. If thats your intention (baiting) then ok. Otherwise its just daft.


Sir I think you missed the name of the character. Once he receives the info he wants that toon will likely be biomassed. Or maybe parked in a deep corner of high sec just to troll people. Either way, this toon will not lead you to the actual tower, so he's not endangering himself at all.


This.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#10 - 2013-10-08 12:54:07 UTC
You're welcome, coward.
Winchester Steele
#11 - 2013-10-08 18:19:44 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
You're welcome, coward.



So he's dumb if he announces his intention to put up a POS and he's a coward if he doesn't? Or you just like insulting people because you're a d-bag? Roll


Anyhow OP. In highsec, just go with offline hardeners and ECM and online them if you get decced. Or nothing and pull the tower down. Or form a defense fleet. Or any combination thereof. POS guns wont be of any value.

Towers are bargain basement cheap though, so I wouldnt overthink it too much, just try it out.

...

Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2013-10-08 19:29:11 UTC
You still haven't said in what space.. HS, LS ??
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#13 - 2013-10-08 22:58:54 UTC
Winchester Steele wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
You're welcome, coward.



So he's dumb if he announces his intention to put up a POS and he's a coward if he doesn't? Or you just like insulting people because you're a d-bag? Roll


Anyhow OP. In highsec, just go with offline hardeners and ECM and online them if you get decced. Or nothing and pull the tower down. Or form a defense fleet. Or any combination thereof. POS guns wont be of any value.

Towers are bargain basement cheap though, so I wouldnt overthink it too much, just try it out.


I'm sure you'd like an answer wouldn't you?

The word I wanted to use rhymes with bunt and begins with a c, but I had to go for coward instead.

Purely because rather than any thanks for the useful info and advice he goes with a quote of the nitwit whose sole contribution to the thread was to point out to me that he is probably an alt - something I figured out while typing my post - which yes makes part of my post invalid to him, but which I decided to leave in anyway for the next guy reading.

But yeah he's also a coward for not posting with his main, despite it possibly endangering his tower. So any more bunts want to comment? Because I got plenty more forum intolerance to share. Blink
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-10-08 23:13:26 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
So any more bunts want to comment? Because I got plenty more forum intolerance to share. Blink


You're a poopy headLol
Marsan
#15 - 2013-10-09 01:32:23 UTC
The basic issue with a med pos is you don't have the resources to fit a good defense and do something else. A med POS simply isn't defensible, and the only reason to use one is if you don't have anything in the POS that is worth more than a large POS.

Guns really don't threaten a POS fleet you just come in out of the range of the guns, and incap them or tank them. A good set of resists, jammers, and damps will raise the annoyance level and/or resources required for a siege, which is a better defense. Just remember that the resists go on the inside....


PS- You should always have one large gun on your POS. Sooner or later an idiot will park his frigate "out of range" and not realize a large POS gun can hit an unmoving frigate just fine...

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#16 - 2013-10-11 00:59:51 UTC
Donbe Scurred wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
So any more bunts want to comment? Because I got plenty more forum intolerance meow to share. Blink


You're a poopy headLol


heh. I actually laughed.

I still standby that I do not see posting that question with an alt as cowardly, but wise, though the foolish may not be able to tell the difference.

Marsan wrote:
stuff....


Yup on all counts. Inconvenience is the best defense in high sec, in low sec same thing. In low sec if your pos is getting shot at there is always the possibility that their fleet will get attacked while it's trying to grind your POS. The new comers may just kill your POS too, but at least you'll get a laugh watching the first set explode.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#17 - 2013-10-11 14:19:20 UTC
Dont forget about ammunition modificators. I am sure medium pos can dish out much more than 1k dps. Any pos especially smaller than large out of wormhole is imho bad idea for not sov owners.
Aluka 7th
#18 - 2013-10-14 14:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
To OP.

First, never tell anyone where your POS is.
Second, never leave your characters in system where your POS is for long time or when you log off. Do all remotely from several jumps away. That way if someone does location check on you characters you wont give away your POS location. If you need to move stuff from POS to POS then do it fast and get out of system.
Third, only deploy POS in system with station so all blueprints can stay safe in station even if POS goes boom.


I used this setup:
http://s2.postimg.org/4zoqcbgnt/2013_05_18_11_52_28.jpg
http://s2.postimg.org/pif13n57d/2013_05_18_12_08_42.jpg
Stuff is spread out to be additional pain in the ass to take down.
You can't defend it but you can make job of taking it real hard, specially in highsec where they can't use dreads.
That is why this setup is called "dickstar" and works great in 0.0 on large tower.


Usually this is what I did!
PEACE time, option A:
2xmobile lab, 2xstasis, 2xscram, 2xion jam, 2xphase jam, 2xspatial jam, 2x white jam, 1xKIN hard, 2xTM hard, 2xEM hard, 4xmed pulse lasers, 6xsmall pulse lasers
This is enough for two characters, one doing ME/PE/copy and other doing invention.

PEACE time, option B:
More labs or manufacturing. Replace all hardeners with labs and offline guns if you need power.

WAR time
3xstasis, 3xscram,2xion jam, 3xphase jam, 3xspatial jam, 4xwhite jam, 3xEM hard, 3xTM hard,2xKN hard,3xmed laser, 3xsmall laser

You can anchor spares but I didn't bother.

Hope it helps!
A7
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-10-14 22:27:39 UTC
Aluka 7th wrote:
To OP.

First, never tell anyone where your POS is.
Second, never leave your characters in system where your POS is for long time or when you log off. Do all remotely from several jumps away. That way if someone does location check on you characters you wont give away your POS location. If you need to move stuff from POS to POS then do it fast and get out of system.
Third, only deploy POS in system with station so all blueprints can stay safe in station even if POS goes boom.


I used this setup:
http://s2.postimg.org/4zoqcbgnt/2013_05_18_11_52_28.jpg
http://s2.postimg.org/pif13n57d/2013_05_18_12_08_42.jpg
Stuff is spread out to be additional pain in the ass to take down.
You can't defend it but you can make job of taking it real hard, specially in highsec where they can't use dreads.
That is why this setup is called "dickstar" and works great in 0.0 on large tower.


Usually this is what I did!
PEACE time, option A:
2xmobile lab, 2xstasis, 2xscram, 2xion jam, 2xphase jam, 2xspatial jam, 2x white jam, 1xKIN hard, 2xTM hard, 2xEM hard, 4xmed pulse lasers, 6xsmall pulse lasers
This is enough for two characters, one doing ME/PE/copy and other doing invention.

PEACE time, option B:
More labs or manufacturing. Replace all hardeners with labs and offline guns if you need power.

WAR time
3xstasis, 3xscram,2xion jam, 3xphase jam, 3xspatial jam, 4xwhite jam, 3xEM hard, 3xTM hard,2xKN hard,3xmed laser, 3xsmall laser

You can anchor spares but I didn't bother.

Hope it helps!
A7


Has anyone actually ever attacked you?

With so many easier target around (unfuelled POSes littering hi-sec, many with labs intact) I can't imagine anyone wanting to attack something like that unless you really really made them cross. I would be SO BORING.
Aluka 7th
#20 - 2013-10-15 05:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Aluka 7th
Uppsy Daisy wrote:

Has anyone actually ever attacked you?

With so many easier target around (unfuelled POSes littering hi-sec, many with labs intact) I can't imagine anyone wanting to attack something like that unless you really really made them cross. I would be SO BORING.


POS was never attacked although I was under wardecs and did really made some ppl cross by killing them and their POSes. First two rules are what keeps POS safe. Secrecy and not keeping your main and/or alts near the POS and ofc not putting POS in major system like Sivala.

Selecting good system is not hard. Using dotlan map you just narrow down potential candidates and then go with cov. op and check free moons. Lets say I live in Sinq Laison so I want POS in same region as I want to do everything remotely.
In any order I have to do following:

1.List systems with less then 1000jumps in 24h:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Sinq_Laison#jumps24
2.Then remove from that list systems that don't have little square next to them (means doesn't have station)
3.Then remove from that list systems that are low-sec or above 0.7sec status (won't/can't deploy POS)
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Sinq_Laison#sec
4.Then sort list from closest to farthest from my staging system and check free moons.
5. Deploy the POS.