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Worst cases for a solo PvPer, and ways to handle them...

Author
Denuo Secus
#1 - 2013-10-05 13:24:57 UTC
(1) Being kited while sitting in a Gallente blaster ship

(2) Getting brawled down while flying an Amarr pulse laser ship

---

Both situations are worst cases. My question is about options and flexibility to handle them. Assume medium sized ships in both cases. So you have opponents smaller and bigger than yourself - lets say Brutix and Harbinger. Also: I didn't mention Minmatar and Caldari here by intention. I just want to compare typical medium sized Amarr and Gallente ships. So no RML Caracals and Vagas ^^

In the first situation the blaster ship still can MWD while being kited and tackled by a long point only. So it can use gates or is able to dock. In deep space a long point frig can be fend off by drones (slower frigs) or jammed with ECM drones. Equally sized ships could be handled by a slingshot out of long point or into web&scram range. So there are options.

The second situation seems harder. The pulse laser ship cannot MWD anymore once hard tackled. So getting rid of hard tackle fast is key. But lasers have tracking issues, also not the brutal close range damage of blasters. Small (hard) tackle can be neuted. Drones help here too. Equally sized ships should(?) be no problem for pulse lasers to hit. Larger ships could be counter webbed&scrambled so you can just fly out of range.

What is your experience? What do you think is more manageable - and why?
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#2 - 2013-10-05 14:29:15 UTC
I prefer using ships with as much FLEXIBILITY as possible. Being able to engage multiple ship classes, ranges, and opponents. Which performs well in ANY PROBABLE ENGAGEMENTS and covers most of the tools a pilot uses.

Then all that's left is YOU and YOUR OPPONENTS skill, experience, luck, environment, and positioning.

With regards to Gallente ships. I only use ships with large drone bays and bonuses or projected and applied damage (0 - 28,000m).

Anyway.

To answer your question. Don't be in those situations to begin with. I suspect avoiding non optimal situations is rolled up into skill and experience. As to how things will go when you're in those situations. I covered that already v0v

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#3 - 2013-10-05 15:14:03 UTC
1 vs 1 is really the best case scenario if you fly solo. Usually you have to deal with all kind of support and change targets on the fly.

my kill-priority list is:
#1 ecm
#2 logistics
#3 stuff with weapons
#4 typical bait ships

you can't solo anything without killing the griffins first and you usually don't have the dps for killing something which has logistics.
ECM is really a big problem for solo pilots. Your range dictation doesn't work which makes you suddenly very vulnerable. And ignore bait, kill the other stuff first.


so my worst case scenario is to fight anything while having hostile ecm on grid

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#4 - 2013-10-05 15:33:08 UTC
1) Fit web and scrambler and choose your engagements more carefully
- engaging within range of a gate for example in case you want to deaggro and jump
- engaging on the warp in of a plex for quick scram, or bouncing around until you land at the right range.

Mitigate your own risk of being kited by chosing when to engage. Also overheated prop mod and slingshot is your friend here.

2) Ewar - make sure you have at least 1 ECM drone or some form of ewar superiority (TD, 2 webs vs their 1, neuts and cap boosters etc)... Burn directly away from the target, make sure you have your highest DPS MF crystal and not scorch loaded.

The worst situation you overlook is often the most fatal - which is engaging a solo target to find they have a craptonne of support - this you can mitigate as much as possible but you will always get suckered in solo - it is part of the game - just take it on the chin, make a note on the character and remember for next time.

Hope this helps.
Denuo Secus
#5 - 2013-10-05 15:56:05 UTC
Thanks for your responses. So i guess I just have to choose what i like more and learn to avoid situations I cannot handle ^^ I really agree with Major Killz here, flexibility is king. It really sucks when those unfavorable situations are the majority and I don't find fights thats why...
Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-10-07 15:53:39 UTC
A couple of tips tht may help - 1. Use your surroundings. I've only had success with this a few times but when being kited, use nearby obstacles to at worst cut the kiter's transversal and at best, get them stopped completely. You can use anything - gates, stations, asteroids, other ships etc. Try and manouvre yor opponent into them, then either use the break in momentum to overheat and burn at them for the scram or burn towards then away so that their own slingshot breaks their point.
2. Selectively overhead point and web defensibly. If it's a case of a faster ship burning for a scram on you overheating a web whilst burning away at full speed may give you enough time to slow the enemy just before his scram hits youm this only really works when the speed difference betweeen the ships is quite small though. If you're being burnt at by fast tackle then burn full speed towárds them, wait for the slingshot then apply an overheated web once they start to slow. This will hopefully lower their speed by enough to be able to volley them too if you're lucky.
3. Countering autopilot orbits on kiters by repeatedly approaching and retreating. The auto orbit fixes distance first, and on some ships with "too much speed" (more than about 4kms for frigs) then with a bit of luck their excess speed will cause them to bounce to far, either out of point range or into scram range. This usually only works when your own ship has an mwd, as ab's don't give enough of a speed burst to cause much of a bounce. At least you should be able to lower their transversal.
Good luck and fly dangerous!
Manu Militari
Neurotoxin Control
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#7 - 2013-10-07 16:47:20 UTC
Flexibility is king, yes, but choosing your engagements is what it all comes down to. When fitting ships ask yourself what it is you are fitting to fight? What are your weaknesses? What are you strengths? And roam according to that. When I fit a ship I come up not so much Of a list of what to engage but a list of why to avoid. Take engagement that your ship is designed for. There are so many potential ships and fits to fly that are all equipped to handle different situations, the key is recognizing their roles and focusing on them.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#8 - 2013-10-10 18:08:13 UTC
From the way that you pose your question, I can tell that you are not flying correctly, nor do you have the proper state of mind for the current PvP meta. Solo PvP has always, and will always be about kiting. Secondly you need to chose a ship that has a large engagement profile. In order to do this, you need to consider a number of things. Luckily I have spoken about all of this and explained in detail many of these concepts in my blog.

Take a read if you are interested:

http://evestealthbomber.blogspot.com/2013/07/what-makes-good-eve-pvper.html

However secondly I notice that you write about how bad it is to be scrammed while in a pulse laser boat... Well no ****. If you are scrammed while nanoing, you made a mistake and you are giong to die. That mistake is where you learn, and get better. A better pilot can not only fly the ship better, but can also read the field- and understand innately when he / she can or cannot fight or continue to fight.

Also here is another quick conversation I have with a friend of mine that might interest you:

Nano is not only valid for cruisers / frigs. The current meta in nano can be broken down pretty simply. (I think that i actually have a blog post about this kind of discussion.) So the idea of nano is this:

1. Faster than ships that can hard tackle you (Think scrams / long webs)

2. Can Quickly kill ships that can hard tackle you.



So that is in essence what nano is. You can either outrun their hard tackle, or you can kill the hard tackle before it becomes a problem.


So that is the basic premise. In general the Nano ships fear large quantites of frigs / intys or speed fit jags. They also worry about very fast scram fit cruisers and lastly Huginns / Rapiers / Web lokis / Falcons / Curse. Those ships are what causes worry for a nano pilot. So the idea of nano is trying to create a ship, or a group of ships while in a fleet that can deal with all of these threats in the best way possible.

A quick example, and a ship that plays very much like the old nano drake of old is the RLM caracal, and RLM cerb. (The cerb struggles with speed, unlike the caracal- so the cerbs use should be used mostly in small gang.)

The reason why the RLM caracal is so effective is because of the following:

Perfectly applied 250 DPS to any ship within 70K. That means that light tackle gets shredded very easily.

Uses missiles. So if you are damped, jammed, or TD- your ship can still keep firing and being useful. That immunity to EWAR is huge

Very fast. Few ships can catch the nano caracal, and it can easily run from big threats, while sporting enough DPS / Tank to handle t1 cruisers / recons / ABCs and BC's.

The long range and damage application helps when attacking dangerous long web ships like the rapier / huginn



So getting back to your original question, 'Is nano a cruiser game' The answer is no. If you can find a BC or BS ship that, like the caracal can handle and fight againts the nano threats effectively feel free to use it. However your choices are limited. From personal experience the few ships that can nano that are not cruisers are the following:

Cruise Nano Phoon

Pulse Shield Oracle

Mach

Tornado


Hope that helps? If you have any other questions just let me know


Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-10-10 21:23:01 UTC
if those are your 2 worst cased then youre getting off pretty lightly.
personally the ships I stay away from are web lokis. rapiers too if they have a lot of support.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Pinky Feldman
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#10 - 2013-10-12 04:11:17 UTC
1) Getting Falcon jam range nerfed by CCP repeatedly.

As a solo Falcon pilot, so far the only response to this i've been able to come up with is to get expensive pirate implants with T2 rigs. Sadly, while these help I don't really have the range that I used to meaning I need to setup my warp ins a lot more carefully. I find it pretty ironic that CCP Rise used to be all about bringing solo back and then ECM gets massive nerfs. Way to go. :(
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-12 05:53:25 UTC
Winmatar.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-10-12 07:25:40 UTC
Getting griffined

Counter: no counter exists


.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-10-13 02:39:46 UTC
Being in a Punisher or a Rifter


Best options are to self destruct.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Dan Carter Murray
#14 - 2013-10-16 14:02:21 UTC
Roime wrote:
Getting griffined

Counter: no counter exists




grail/spur/jackal/talisman help a lot actually.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#15 - 2013-10-16 18:39:42 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
1) Getting Falcon jam range nerfed by CCP repeatedly.

As a solo Falcon pilot, so far the only response to this i've been able to come up with is to get expensive pirate implants with T2 rigs. Sadly, while these help I don't really have the range that I used to meaning I need to setup my warp ins a lot more carefully. I find it pretty ironic that CCP Rise used to be all about bringing solo back and then ECM gets massive nerfs. Way to go. :(



That's because ECM is ******* gay.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#16 - 2013-10-16 18:53:05 UTC
That's not ironic at all. What is ironic is someone who never solos talking about solo like they solo.

Pinky Feldman wrote:
I find it pretty ironic that CCP Rise used to be all about bringing solo back and then ECM gets massive nerfs. Way to go. :(

nom nom

Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#17 - 2013-10-16 20:04:29 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Being in a Punisher or a Rifter


Best options are to self destruct.


I wish they would bring out an area of effect damage when you SD a ship! That would cool. KAMIKAZI!!!!!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Ashnazg
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#18 - 2013-10-19 11:22:33 UTC
Worst case for solo pvp (or any pvp for that matter): The opponents knows what he's doing and either rapes you on the spot or just doesnt engage you.

Blog: [URL="http://www.ilikefalcons.wordpress.com"]White Knights and Manly Explosions[/URL]

Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#19 - 2013-10-19 11:25:51 UTC
Ashnazg wrote:
Worst case for solo pvp (or any pvp for that matter): The opponents knows what he's doing and either rapes you on the spot or just doesnt engage you.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Za'afiel
Imperceptible Bedevilment
#20 - 2013-10-19 18:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Za'afiel
The worst case for solo pvper is a fleet of friendlies following his every step, shooting everything that the solo pvper shoots! There is no way one can counter this... You know, one has to sleep and they are taking stalking shifts! The extreme of this is covop friendlies in WH space showing up out of the blue when one has a target going into structure...

/edit

I could actually make an eve career out of this! The first leet solo pvpers STALKER!

Shoot them all! Be polite.