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Ishukone Ships and Surrounding issues... Coming SOON (TM)

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Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#301 - 2013-10-10 17:01:42 UTC
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:

ToSGate was a manufactured crisis. This is not. Somer is not a service EVE couldn't live without. If Chribba quit and took all the services he provides to us free of charge, well, that would hurt EVE quite a bit. Might not kill it, but we would be reeling from the loss of eve-files, eve-offline statistics monitor, EVE search which was invaluable during the old forums, and many many more, last but not least Tritanium production would drop at least 50% without VeldFleet. Okay, maybe just 25%.

Eve University offers golden advice for everyone, both new and old players and maintain a highly useful wiki, not to mention what all they do in-game.

Compared to all this Somer Blink does ****-all. I wouldn't shed a single tear if it was disbanded today.


First off, ToSGate isn't manufactured by any stretch of the imagination. The pull of the game for people like us was BECAUSE of how the original ToS was instituted. So no, it isn't manufactured and still represents a vital and dangerous threat to the game because it gives GMs (who are notoriously fickle as those TOS threads have proven over and over again) free hand to do whatever they want. To favor some and punish others for the exact same thing. THAT is wrong. THAT needs to be fixed and returned to the state in which we all play.

Second, if Eve Uni got some prize for helping people out I would be all for it. I agree that some are worthier and that some other groups/websites should be favored as well. I just think it is wrong to be upset at either CCP or Somer Blink for something that rewards SB for good business practices that also benefit CCP and its customers.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
flakeys
Doomheim
#302 - 2013-10-10 17:10:57 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
On a personal note, I wish I had carved more time out of my vacation to lend to communication on this, and I apologize for that. I spent several hours researching and answering media requests (TheMittani.com, Gameskinny and as the "CCP spokesperson" for Kotaku) and getting as caught up as I could remotely, but I should have at least blueposted that we were listening here and elsewhere and discussing things internally.
My job duties suggest that I'm the guy that responds to media when requested, but I should have made that a second stop in this case. We have since dissected things more and hope the newer update will put many a capsuleer heart that bleeds for the sanctity of New Eden at ease.



It should be Obvious that you FIRST reply on your internal forums and THEN on 3rd party sites.Unless you care more about potential customers then actuall customers.A mistake a lot of companies make these days though.



That said , it still is better to respond somewhere then not at all so i'll give you that.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#303 - 2013-10-10 18:05:17 UTC
As much as I don't care at all about the scorps or whatever the heck/who did will do or whatnot with I have a single remark to do:

If you guys start gifting whatever the heck stuff to some community actors don't do it lightly and avoid all discrimination feelings.

Chribba just for the perfect example contributed thousands times more than Somer, I can understand this guys feelings after this "mistake".
Don't get me wrong, I support Somer Blink staff for what they do and what they made out of their initial idea, they did it right and yes they deserve some rewarding for their achievements, however as stated above, you guys shouldn't reward some and just not the others.

Not an issue to me, I could care less some random dude gets a fed navy mega but I think I'm in right to ask why shouldn't I have one too, you guys got the idea.

Nice knowing at CCP someone is dealing with this and will sort it out fairly to everyone, well done.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#304 - 2013-10-10 18:05:47 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
[
So, you are telling me that Ishukone Watch Scorpions, which have worst stats than standard Scropions, effect balance? And this is even more so because they were given secretly? And yet somehow, I'm dense?

Hahahahahahha. You're not being serious are you? Please tell me you're not being serious. It has nothing to do with the stats of the ships, and everything to do with the isk those ships are worth. It's unbalancing to the lottery market, for one thing. Other lotteries haven't gotten giveaways from CCP, and have not been lended credibility by CCP. It's a matter of fairness.
Quote:

They didn't grant him that really. He actually had to threaten CCP for that to happen, so no, I don't consider it "an honor" that they let him keep it there, just good business sense on CCP's part. Now, I'll agree that spawning isk (i.e. the T20 scandal) that someone can continuously profit from, either because it improves your chance of victory or improves your income repeatedly is wrong. However, a single gift, given to a website or anybody because they give your own business some benefits is not wrong. It's smart.

Can't say I remember him threatening anybody, buddy.

As to your second "point" this is hardly a simple gift. A single of those spawned ships is worth more money than most eve players will ever have in their wallets. Never mind the added credibility.

Quote:

If, however, they can point to a public website, something useable by all players (either fun or functional) that clearly has demonstrated a significantly large amount of use by multiple groups of players (friend and foe) then I would not care that they got it because it would not be any moral violation.

ok. www.themittani.com 's reporting, there, boom, done. I expect a ishukone scorp for every Goonswarm member, thanks in advance CCP.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#305 - 2013-10-10 18:33:46 UTC
We have an announcement out about this matter.

That thread is now open for discussions.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#306 - 2013-10-10 18:34:56 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
We have an announcement out about this matter.

That thread is now open for discussions.

YAY...!!!

I can't wait to read those tears!

...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#307 - 2013-10-10 18:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
I understand people going on vacation might makes things take much longer than the usual procedure but why didn't someone just see the crisis starting and just put the brakes on it until it could be all discussed? Pull the SOMER items for some time until all has been discussed and then, if all happen to be ok after the discussion and the policy has been made, then toss back the items and all will be well because the players will actually know WTF is going on and why are stuff given for free.

Instead, what happened is the whole thing went on anyway even if the policy being discussed could end up not being in favor of such gift and now CCP has to play firefighter because because things went on while they were on vacation.
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#308 - 2013-10-10 18:40:49 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
I understand people going on vacation might makes things take much longer than the usual procedure but why didn't someone just see the crisis starting and just put the brakes on it until it could be all discussed? Pull the SOMER items for some time until all has been discussed and then, if all happen to be ok after the discussion and the policy has been made, then toss back the items and all will be well because the players will actually know WTF is going on and why are stuff given for free.

Instead, what happened is the whole thing went on anyway even if the policy being discussed could end up not being in favor of such gift and now CCP has to play firefighter because because things went on while they were on vacation.


We could definitely have made a post much earlier saying "hey, we're looking at this, more later". Completely agreed.

Any immediate knee jerk action though is dangerous as it can set a precedent or even further complicate matters. We sometimes get into bad spots because we don't think things through from all angles, so it's better to put on the thinking caps and be cool on the way out :)

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#309 - 2013-10-10 18:53:51 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
I understand people going on vacation might makes things take much longer than the usual procedure but why didn't someone just see the crisis starting and just put the brakes on it until it could be all discussed? Pull the SOMER items for some time until all has been discussed and then, if all happen to be ok after the discussion and the policy has been made, then toss back the items and all will be well because the players will actually know WTF is going on and why are stuff given for free.

Instead, what happened is the whole thing went on anyway even if the policy being discussed could end up not being in favor of such gift and now CCP has to play firefighter because because things went on while they were on vacation.


We could definitely have made a post much earlier saying "hey, we're looking at this, more later". Completely agreed.

Any immediate knee jerk action though is dangerous as it can set a precedent or even further complicate matters. We sometimes get into bad spots because we don't think things through from all angles, so it's better to put on the thinking caps and be cool on the way out :)


I'm pretty sure your player base would of been happier to have a post about things going on a halt because the policy has to be discussed and the SOMER gift being pulled until everything is set in stone about those giveaway procedure than having this go through.

1- Post about giveaweay being put on halt because the policy has to be discussed
2- Pull items
3- WOOT! VACATIONS!!!!!
4- Internal dicussion
5- New poast about final policy decision
6- Give stuff back so that draft can resume.

Instead, we got :

1- Post about the upcoming discussion on policy (player base does not even know when)
2- gift stays in
3- Vacation and some stuff ending
4- Discovery of other gift to SOMER while the player base are waiting on clarification of the policy
4- Discussion (We could not know it would happen after the somer giveaway since many people were on vacation for obviously good reason)
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#310 - 2013-10-10 19:11:12 UTC
Gamer4liff wrote:
Hahahahahahha. You're not being serious are you? Please tell me you're not being serious. It has nothing to do with the stats of the ships, and everything to do with the isk those ships are worth. It's unbalancing to the lottery market, for one thing. Other lotteries haven't gotten giveaways from CCP, and have not been lended credibility by CCP. It's a matter of fairness.


Unbalancing? Hardly. If this was a few years back when battleships in general were rare, and capitals didn't reign supreme, then yes this would be a valid argument. Right now however, the only market this *might* hurt is the speculative market on rare ships. Even then, it isn't a huge change. Certainly not as damaging to the pocketbook as Tiercide has been for various pilots and industiralists. Not by a long shot.

Quote:

Can't say I remember him threatening anybody, buddy. As to your second "point" this is hardly a simple gift. A single of those spawned ships is worth more money than most eve players will ever have in their wallets. Never mind the added credibility.

Then perhaps Chribba will grace us with his presence on this issue because the information I got was that CCP definately wanted to kick his Veldnaught out into low/null with the other capitals and Chribba got rather upset over that and there was quite a quarrel about it.

Of all the arguments that have been put forth, the ONLY one that might have had any traction with me was if it hurt similar sites, as in other gambling sites. Yet, when this argument comes up, no one even mentions the names of the other sites. Are there some? Sure. But their reputation isn't as good nor is the product they provide as refined, nor are they popular.

Quote:

ok. www.themittani.com 's reporting, there, boom, done. I expect a ishukone scorp for every Goonswarm member, thanks in advance CCP.


Since when does EVERY goonswarm member write for themittani.com? Most of them are lucky if they can spell right. And as I recall, themittani name brand ISN'T about Goonswarm. I should have added something about "adding content" as well to the above post, but even with that I would not be upset if members of themittani.com or Evenews24 perhaps got special prizes too.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#311 - 2013-10-10 19:35:50 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Then perhaps Chribba will grace us with his presence on this issue because the information I got was that CCP definately wanted to kick his Veldnaught out into low/null with the other capitals and Chribba got rather upset over that and there was quite a quarrel about it.
CCP did move it (or a GM did as a result of a fake petition). This ship has always been allowed and never broken any rules. What caused the big quarrel, was that the GM in question lied about the reason of moving it and made it look like CCP had just decided to make new rules and enforce them within the last 24 hours - which obviously was not the case since nothing like that had happened at all.

The aftermath of that was the rules that any high-sec capital is now bound by, eg may not be used for aggression, may not be sold/traded, may not be used for an unfair advantage etc.

I got upset over the fact that the GM lies straight to my face and that if it had been true no one was informed about these rules changes and just slapped in the face with it.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#312 - 2013-10-10 19:39:09 UTC
I'm sorry if I'm being awfully rude by shutting down the conversation, but I'd like to lock this thread and move this discussion to the announcement at the top of GD. It's hard for anyone to keep up with two threads on this. At least an inexperienced forum warrior like me :)

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard