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Fit review request: spider cap/tank sentry domi for null anoms
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Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-10-09 17:55:52 UTC
Hi all,

This is my first attempt to make my 2 domis spider tank and cap so please don't just point and laugh but also post some advice on how to make them better.

Basically my both pilots have very similar skills and whatever is still lacking to use this fit will be trained in a matter of few days. BS V and sentries V are already taken care of so in context of DPS and projection I am in good place I think. Purpose of this duo is running high end angel anomalies in null so sanctums, havens and f-hubs.

I already run ports and hubs in dual sentry domis without cap or tank transfer but few tests in f-hubs had few moments of dipping into structure when I derped on triggers and got swarmed. Nothing I couldn't manage and finish anomaly within reasonable time but I have a feeling those higher level anoms may be more than current duo can handle so that's why I'm looking for improvement.

And one more thing, I don't run anoms AFK nor I intent to do so. I lock targets and direct my sentries' fire on them manually so please refrain from accusations of botting attempts.

Ok, here's fit:

[Dominix, spider armor cap]

3x Large Energy Transfer Array II
Drone Link Augmentor I
2x Large Remote Armor Repair System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II (Targeting Range Script)
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II (Scan Resolution Script)

Damage Control II
4x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II

Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
2x Large Egress Port Maximizer I

5x Bouncer II

Stats with my current skills:
- EHP: 75k
- tank: 560 DPS against angels, resists: exp 74%, kin 75%
- sentries: 630 DPS (bouncers II) with optimal 136km
- cap stable at 70%
- locking range: 134km

So, does it make any sense or I am just jerking off over paper stats and have no idea about anything?
Maybe it is overkill and I should just keep those ships separate only improve their performance?
I would be grateful for some pointers.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#2 - 2013-10-09 18:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Reposting your fit so that it can be EFT/Pyfa imported:

[Dominix, spider armor cap]

Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I

Bouncer II x5

---

It looks good for a dual setup. A couple of suggestions:

1. You do not really need two egress rigs with good skills, you might want to change one to a large drone control range augmentor. And couple that with a T2 DLA as soon as you have the skills for it.
2. I would change the kinetic hardener to a EANM. It will give you a little more tank and juice to work with.

And a tip. Leaving your two sebos unscripted will result in a bigger scan res and targeting range.

Hope that helps, cheers...C:
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-10-09 18:55:59 UTC
Thanks for reformatting my fit, I used EveHQ "export for forums" option instead "export for EFT", duh.

Without second Egress rig I have cap "only" for 6m 50sec but EANM instead of kinetic hardener makes it into almost 8 minutes. This is one thing that I was wondering about: do I really need to run reps on both ships at all time? I am almost sure I don't need to do it because usually only one will get aggro so I can just switch reps accordingly. With 1 egress and only 1 outgoing rep running makes me cap stable at 84% so it could definitely be possible assuming I will keep up with micromanaging everything.

Thanks a lot for pointing those little things out, I guess I was too much focused on this whole spider RR thing to notice it myself.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#4 - 2013-10-09 19:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
You obviously won't need to perma your tank, just provide some cycles when you have high DPS spikes according to the aggro you are facing. Also, the dual rep setup helps to rep your drones too, if you see that they take too much heat.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-10-09 20:01:59 UTC
Are you warping to 100km on anoms? Do you have drone interfacing V? It seems odd you would run into a tanking situation.

Quick glance to your fit reveals the issue which is you are not using highslots for drone link augmentors. You should be sniping the anoms from 100-170km from rats, boosting bouncer optimal to that range, and never taking relevant damage from the rats.

Angel missiles are EXP damage, those are the only things hitting you until the ships reach 45 km from you. Tank vs. that with exp hardener, EANM and large armor repairer. Fit 4 drone damage amplifier II's to kill rats before they reach firing range. With dominix bouncers, 2 omnidir is enough so 2x sebo to lock fast and far. Rigs to taste.

Compiled:

4 DDA II
1 EXP hardener
1 EANM
1 LAR II

2 Sebo
2 Omnidir
1 MJD

5-6x Drone link augmentor II

1-2x Large processor overclock (how many do you need?)
1x Large anti-explosive pump (optional)
1x Large drone scope chip (optional)
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2013-10-09 20:05:34 UTC
6 minutes is functionally equivalent to forever, especially considering that you're only using two accounts and your setup is very easy to manage.

You need MORE drone control range.

I agree with the EANM over the kinetic hardener. Angel DPS profiles vary heavily by ship type. Also, resist rigs TEND to be weak choices for the rig slot.

That said, you should have no difficulty whatsoever doing this.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-10-09 20:10:39 UTC
Unrelated to the correct solution of sniping from absolute maximum range and forgoing the tanking requirement, your tank is not tailored for the high end angel anoms.

The bottleneck spawns deal approximately off the top of my backside 45% EXP, 20% EM (seraphim), 20% TH (cherubim), 15% KIN. The impact of the EM-THERM damage is much bigger than plain paper dps, because seraphim and cherubim project the damage to furthest of angel ships while the mid end battleships only hit below 25km. For armor tanks, you should not go with a kinetic hardener, but instead EANM to deal with the high end battleship dps.
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-10-09 21:05:52 UTC
Thank you all for posting your advice.

Right now my fit for duo domis differs mostly in highs where I have 4 DLA I and 2 x small RR for helping my bouncers when rats focus on them too much although more often than not I just pull the one losing shield and launch it back when aggro switches. Also each domi has t2 large repper with t2 DCU and exp harderer for resists. It is rather weak tank around 200 DPS.

And yes, I warp at 100, launch sentries and start blapping. If warp in point happens to be very close to rats I MJD at range before dropping sentries.

What I did wrong in those few f-hubs was two-fold issue: I let cherubims and seraphims pound me for too long when I was clearing smaller stuff and among those smaller ships I hit triggers. So I had armor going down, repper going perma trying to mitigate incoming damage causing cap going down fast and wave of cruise missiles coming my way from triggered group of BSs.

As I wrote earlier it was quite hot but I managed to pull myself together, overheated repper, MJD both ships at range and finished site with only red markings around heated modules.

It happened two or three times because I learn slowly and have attention span of a hamster :)

Ok, so another concept would be improve my current domi fit for better drone control range instead of switching from local reps to RR? I will definitely take a look at this especially that it may be in fact less hassle than managing spider tank and cap exchange along with locking and shooting things.

Thank you very much.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#9 - 2013-10-09 22:12:45 UTC
Knoor Shardani wrote:
As I wrote earlier it was quite hot but I managed to pull myself together, overheated repper, MJD both ships at range and finished site with only red markings around heated modules.


Overheating is a godsend, even in PVE. If you don't occasionally need to do it, you're not having enough fun.

Knoor Shardani wrote:

Ok, so another concept would be improve my current domi fit for better drone control range instead of switching from local reps to RR? I will definitely take a look at this especially that it may be in fact less hassle than managing spider tank and cap exchange along with locking and shooting things.


You need to increase your drone control range anyway. I'm not particularly suggesting that you try to outrange the DPS. I would by all means proceed with the RR setup, as it will keep aggro off your drones. All you really have to do is toggle one of the two RR's on or off now and then, it will be a net decrease in micromanagement. If you replace the explosive pump with a remote repair augmenter rig, you can probably be 100% capstable.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Bibosikus
Air
#10 - 2013-10-09 23:06:04 UTC
Since you're killing Angel rats and using Bouncers, you really should be warping in at 100 and fitting to hit out to about 130km:

[Dominix, Angel Anoms]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Auto Targeting System II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Bouncer II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


200+ dps tank, which at 100km is definitely more than you'll really need.
You could use faction ODL's, they aren't expensive and give your Bouncers another 10km optimal (135km) over T2's and a bit more tracking.
The ATS gives you another 3 targets which is useful. It doesn't need activation.
43% cap stable with relevant L5 skills.
140+km targetting, 125km optimal on Bouncers, 130km Control Range (with EWDI skill at 4)
Since rats took on Sleeper-style AI, it's become clear that they prioritise eWar targets. Hence, although you could *easily* tank at 100km with a LAR, using spidertanking actually means you get little if any drone aggro.
I'd probably add an agility rig and an Ionic Field Projector then add another scan res script. Can lock frigates in 6.5 secs.
I use a very similar fit with Curators for Drone Hordes and never have any trouble at all.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Knoor Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-10-10 06:04:57 UTC
Wait, you say that RR between my domis will cause rats hating ships more than my drones for shooting them? I didn't know it, I always thought it only works if you use target painters or single gun to get aggro on ship.

Thanks for sharing all this info.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#12 - 2013-10-10 07:48:34 UTC
You could also put a single TP on one the Domis then assign drones to that one. That way you could fit more omnis and it would also require less effort (more time to spam dscan, not that I would hang around in an anom with anyone in system)