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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon] Electronic Attack Ships

First post
Author
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#361 - 2013-10-09 14:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Kagura Nikon wrote:
On the case of the sentinel in specific removing high slots nerf their ewar.. so that is a bit mor complicated than in the other frigates.

Moving a high-slot to the low rack would actually help it as the lowslots allow for speed, damage, cap, tank, whatever .. while minimizing the impact its secondary eWar (neuts) can have on larger ship classes, remember that each small neut acts as if it was a 30km medium neut which is utterly insane if you think about it (we had the Hurricane nerfed for fielding two vanilla range medium neuts after all Smile).

Plus the inability to fit three neuts makes the curious recharge bonus redundant which in turn opens the door for the inevitable (and needed) hard-as-Chuck-Norris nerf to TD's with the Sentinel getting the Inquisitor range bonus in place of the recharge bonus with TD being re-fashioned to mimic ECM with weak modules and strong ship bonuses (same treatment for damps when people get fed up with the new Keres pissing in their cereal every day Big smile).

Double whammy is that a slot move differentiates it from the Hyena in that regard, making it more Amarr as it were.
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help

Don't go overboard with pre-nerf though. It was a good idea to add powerful frigate eWar platforms, problem arise when the same ships can bite/nipple an enemy at the same time.

Try with half the additional bonus and see where it lands, after that consider defanging everything and going full-on in your face eWar ownage Big smile
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#362 - 2013-10-09 14:44:46 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help


GF

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#363 - 2013-10-09 15:18:34 UTC
Guessing this means the bonuses will be scaled back a few %, rather than anything substantial.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#364 - 2013-10-09 15:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help


Well I didn't found them usefull in their current "overpowered" state anyway, and wasn't planning on using them, so I guess it can't be worse.

What do people find so imbalanced here is beyond my understanding. It's not like the "rebalance" was changing a lot of things for them, and it's not like they were overused before...

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#365 - 2013-10-09 15:30:08 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help

whatever you do, don't touch sentinels bandwidth please

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#366 - 2013-10-09 16:07:08 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help

This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#367 - 2013-10-09 16:21:36 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help

This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.


that is more of a statement that titans need to be massively nerfed than anythign else :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Thabink
PonyWaffe
#368 - 2013-10-09 16:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Thabink
An idea for differentiating the Kitsune from its T1 counterpart, since it lacks secondary EWAR, instead of just "moar ECM": An anti-EWAR EWAR platform.
Give it basically the same jamming stats as a Blackbird, but give it collosal defence against enemy EWAR, either with really high sensor strength, lock range and scan res, or by giving it explicit immunity to sensor damps, ECM and TPs.
This would make it roughly the same strength as T1 ewar ships at jamming enemies (maybe slightly more, but not too much), addressing concerns about more powerful ECM ships, but would give it a unique role shutting down enemy EWAR on field, while being immune to them itself.

Edit: I guess it'd need to be tied to the EAFs skill, so how about: 15% reduction in the effect of hostile ECM, RSD and TP per EAFs level.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#369 - 2013-10-09 17:22:40 UTC
Thabink wrote:
An idea for differentiating the Kitsune: An anti-EWAR EWAR platform.
Give it basically the same jamming stats as a Blackbird, but give it collosal defence against enemy EWAR, either with really high sensor strength, lock range and scan res, or by giving it explicit immunity to sensor damps, ECM and TPs.
This would make it roughly the same strength as T1 ewar ships at jamming enemies (maybe slightly more, but not too much), addressing concerns about more powerful ECM ships, but would give it a unique role shutting down enemy EWAR on field, while being immune to them itself.

wtf What?Roll italicized the kernel of rotten corn in the **** that is your post.Big smile

"I want my favorite ewar ship to be immune to other ewar ships" HAHAHAHAHAHAHa, OMG I'm gonna **** myself with laughter. What kind of a baby are you? Roll

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#370 - 2013-10-09 17:26:16 UTC
Their signatures are all too big. The primary reason that I don't fly EAFs on TQ already is that their awful combination of frigate-sized tanks and giant signature radii (also their terrible slot layouts, with midslot-heavy roles that leave them with too few mids for a shield tank and no lows for a proper armor tank either).

Interdictors have the exact same problem: the only reason dictors get flown because gangs are totally dysfunctional without them.
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
#371 - 2013-10-09 17:30:45 UTC
Rise, just do what you think is right, don't let these nerds get to you. Cool

PIZZA CEO

Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#372 - 2013-10-09 17:33:59 UTC
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#373 - 2013-10-09 18:48:03 UTC
Junko Sideswipe wrote:
Rise, just do what you think is right, don't let these nerds get to you. Cool



If that happened all time we would have eneded with a tempest slower than amarr battleships and with sig radius larger than maesltrom. Luckly the nerds made him change his mind.

Peopel fail to realize a lot of the merit on the ship changes are shared between the developers and the people that bring up consistent argument at the forums on why the changes are good or not.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#374 - 2013-10-09 19:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help


Quite sure this isn't a competition :P


Also inb4 45% web range instead of 50 :P


Also don't sound so bitter! :P


See what you made me do... you made me use three emotes in one post, thats unheard of /o\

Weaselior wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help

This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.


They are already getting a significant buff through the warp speed changes.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#375 - 2013-10-09 19:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Milton Middleson
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help


That's kind of disappointing, since there really aren't many dimensions along which you can tone them down without making them unusable again. They have very poor survivability already, so you can't really cut into that. They need the T2 ewar range in order to operate at a range where they won't instantly die the moment someone decides they want to get rid of them. Making them slower is just a different cut into their bad survivability.

The small, vocal minority doesn't want EAFs to be "reasonable", they want them to be useless.

Quote:
They are already getting a significant buff through the warp speed changes.


The same buff that all the other frigates are getting. They still need to be effective in their role once they land on grid, and there is very little room to cut into that effectiveness before they go back to being ****.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#376 - 2013-10-09 20:24:53 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help


You proposed changes; people have been whining. How many of these people that are complaining have actually tested these things yet? I'm betting very few.

Most of the actual complaints seem to center around links and implants; that's fine. It's logical. But perhaps instead of shitcanning your EAF changes and basing your rebalance upon the outrageous benefit that ganglinks and some implants provide, you might take a second crack and reexamining that mechanic. Maybe you should talk internally about backing those percentages down into the single digits, instead of only shaving a percent or two off of them next time.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#377 - 2013-10-09 20:50:33 UTC
CCP Rise, I would say wait a bit for some real singularity tests.

For now, the camera bug has been keeping a lot of dudes off Singularity (I myself get headaches if I play more than 30mns right now on Singularity, and even then I can't see anything so I get killed a lot).

Wait until you have enough testing material and then go ahead :)
Betty Bly
Doomheim
#378 - 2013-10-09 22:11:56 UTC
After checking a bit, I'm curious as to why these ships have the largest signature radius of all frigates by a good margin? Some are size of destroyers even after the updated stats. It doesn't look like they can perform the role they are intended for, and have any kind of tank fitted at the same time. So why so large?

"The dead know only one thing: It is better to be alive."

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#379 - 2013-10-09 22:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Weaselior wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright you win !

Yesterday spent some time talking internally and I think I'm going to make some tweaks to tone them down a little. Not sure exactly what the numbers will be yet and I'm not in the office today but I'll post here letting you know when we work something out.

Thanks for the help

This was probably a mistake. The ships are flown less than titans, they need a significant buff: most of their strengths on paper turn out to not compensate for being a frigate with no real survivability.

Reason they are flown less is more likely due to cost consideration, for the Sentinels abilities for instance you are better off running Inquisitors/Arbitrators if TD is your poison and the neuting Geddon if that is your thing. EAS are only really relevant when you are suffering from pilot shortages

On their own the EAS are currently quite formidable, they just have to be extremely picky when it comes to targets. But they are T2, and since they are not covered by the HAC exception the Devs made (put aside the specialization rule, bastards!) they should do their things so spectacularly well with little wiggle room outside the box .. just a shame that there is only the one hull as it tempts the Devs into more exceptions to cover as much ground as they can, hope they resist and remembers that there are plenty of frigate/light options beyond the EAS.

In short: They should be strong enough to be hated above all else, but in a way that they are not feared. Tricky, but doable.
Chunky Milk
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#380 - 2013-10-10 01:08:29 UTC
thank you :)