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Siphon Unit and Pos guns
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Cheng Chai
Another Corp..
#1 - 2013-10-08 15:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cheng Chai
I was checking Sisi today, looking at all the new Rubicon stuff. One thing I stumbeld upon was the anchoring range of the Siphon unit. It has to be within 50km of a POS shield.

I think it is a terrible idear to force it on grid with the pos. It will make the unit hard to anchor and harvest if the pos is armed (you need an industrial to transport the volume away, pos guns would lock and destroy every industrial in seconds) and very easy to spot for the pos owner.

I think it would be better to increase the anchor range to multiple thousand km. That would make the unit easier to set up and harvest and force the pos owner to put out a flight of combat probes at minimum scan range and press the scan button once before destroying it.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#2 - 2013-10-08 15:55:49 UTC
Cheng Chai wrote:
I was checking Sisi today, looking at all the new Rubicon stuff. One thing I stumbeld upon was the anchoring range of the Siphon unit. It has to be within 50km of a POS shield.

I think it is a terrible idear to force it on grid with the pos. It will make the unit hard to anchor and harvest if the pos is armed (you need an industrial to transport the volume away, pos guns would lock and destroy every industrial in seconds) and very easy to spot for the pos owner.

I think it would be better to increase the anchor range to multiple thousand km. That would make the unit easier to set up and harvest and force the pos owner to put out a flight of combat probes at minimum scan range and press the scan button once before destroying it.


I think you should be filing this in\or as well as the Test Server Feedback forum?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-10-08 16:02:10 UTC
Isn't the entire point of this thing that it is used on POS the owner isn't looking after properly?

And if it's siphoning straight out of the silos, how is it going to work from thousands of KM away?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4 - 2013-10-08 16:09:37 UTC
Cheng Chai wrote:
I was checking Sisi today, looking at all the new Rubicon stuff. One thing I stumbeld upon was the anchoring range of the Siphon unit. It has to be within 50km of a POS shield.

I think it is a terrible idear to force it on grid with the pos. It will make the unit hard to anchor and harvest if the pos is armed (you need an industrial to transport the volume away, pos guns would lock and destroy every industrial in seconds) and very easy to spot for the pos owner.

I think it would be better to increase the anchor range to multiple thousand km. That would make the unit easier to set up and harvest and force the pos owner to put out a flight of combat probes at minimum scan range and press the scan button once before destroying it.
So you want uncontested ability to set these up on any POS, with no ability to defend a POS against them?
lol

Honestly I think these are a dumb idea. They are going to be a great novelty, but the realism is they won't be able to be used except against smaller corps, and since they are open to all, the owning corp can just open them and take the goods.
The novelty will wear off quick, then we'll have another unused feature.

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2013-10-09 10:30:13 UTC
Honestly, POS take forever and a day to lock (especially so for smallish things).

I used to scan moons in low with an Itty (2 or 3 ... whichever had 2 high slots, because moon probes are big, and some of the systems have a stupid number of moons). Had enough time to land on grid with a POS, (re)align to the moon, launch the probe, and gtfo ... provided I was within the probe flight distance. If I had to travel more than a few km (or if they had disrupt batteries), then I'd have to cloak up so I wouldn't get stuck.



Most (not all ... but a good number) lowsec POS have the guns setup in a gunstar formation (3-d + shape), and the names start to overlap (unless you zoom in/get close to them). If you cram your siphon in there, you've got a pretty good chance of it going unnoticed for a few days (i.e. the interim between when they move materials amongst the silos) ... you'll just have to watch and figure out when they touch the tower so that you can maximize your take.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#6 - 2013-10-09 11:20:51 UTC
I'd use it on an unarmed POS and blap haulers nicking stuff from the thing. YMMV.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2013-10-09 11:27:43 UTC
NearNihil wrote:
I'd use it on an unarmed POS and blap haulers nicking stuff from the thing. YMMV.


Shocked
Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Don Fenucci
Katsu Corporation
#8 - 2013-10-09 11:32:16 UTC
Cheng Chai wrote:
I was checking Sisi today, looking at all the new Rubicon stuff. One thing I stumbeld upon was the anchoring range of the Siphon unit. It has to be within 50km of a POS shield.


Where did you find the siphon unit ?
I was searching for the new units on the market and contracts but couldnt find any infos about them.
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#9 - 2013-10-09 12:11:30 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
So you want uncontested ability to set these up on any POS, with no ability to defend a POS against them?
lol


No, but being in range of POS guns means this thing isn't gonna get used at all.

So which is it, implement something nobody will use b/c it's suicide or just can the whole thing? Obviously they are set on doing this so the least they could do is make it useful. I imagine it could still be scanned down...if you are so worried about your POS keep a scan ship in it or take a ship w/ scanner out to it when you check on it and scan around. In the real world shop owners setup security cameras right? This should be no different. Either keep an eye out or get jacked.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#10 - 2013-10-09 12:29:53 UTC
POS guns are only useful against big and (mostly) stationary targets. Slipping up next to this structure (which, I would hope is un-targetable by the POS) in a blockade runner, decloaing for 4 seconds to scoop the loot, then re-cloaking and warping off is hardly "dangerous".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-10-09 12:56:45 UTC
Have you any idea how few POS's are set up to agress only if the POS is attacked? i scanned hundreds of moons before i even discovered they could shoot me (RIP heron).

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2013-10-09 12:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Do all of you seriously think you won't have enough time to anchor these on grid with a POS? Use a blockade runner.


  1. Align
  2. uncloak
  3. deploy
  4. cloak (to break current locking cycle)
  5. uncloak
  6. anchor
  7. cloak
  8. repeat until all syphons deployed


Shouldn't take more than 15 seconds per syphon, 10 once you've practiced. If you get out of anchoring range while cloaked the first time, turn around and go back. Just make sure to stay outside of 2000m of your syphons so you can recloak.

Also, a POS takes about 30 seconds to lock a T1 frigate.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#13 - 2013-10-09 13:02:40 UTC
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
So you want uncontested ability to set these up on any POS, with no ability to defend a POS against them?
lol


In the real world shop owners setup security cameras right?




Ya my POS' security cameras are its guns.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2013-10-09 14:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Have you any idea how few POS's are set up to agress only if the POS is attacked? i scanned hundreds of moons before i even discovered they could shoot me (RIP heron).


it's probably less than you think (and probably more than I think) ... but they take forever and a day to lock "small" things (i.e. cruiser size or smaller)

edit -- but that doesn't change the strategy I (and now Soldarius) have posted to mitigate the "dangers" of POS guns.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#15 - 2013-10-09 14:34:13 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Have you any idea how few POS's are set up to agress only if the POS is attacked? i scanned hundreds of moons before i even discovered they could shoot me (RIP heron).

You made my day.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-10-09 15:30:40 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Have you any idea how few POS's are set up to agress only if the POS is attacked? i scanned hundreds of moons before i even discovered they could shoot me (RIP heron).


Some POS's aren't even set to attack anything, been to a few sieges where we warp in a fleet and start shooting turrets and mods for a few minutes before the logi wing pipes up with "umm we're not repping anything, is this thing shooting back?" followed by "yeh, ecm isn't jamming anyone either"...
Vrenth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-09 16:06:23 UTC
Cheng Chai wrote:
I was checking Sisi today, looking at all the new Rubicon stuff. One thing I stumbeld upon was the anchoring range of the Siphon unit. It has to be within 50km of a POS shield.

I think it is a terrible idear to force it on grid with the pos. It will make the unit hard to anchor and harvest if the pos is armed (you need an industrial to transport the volume away, pos guns would lock and destroy every industrial in seconds) and very easy to spot for the pos owner.

I think it would be better to increase the anchor range to multiple thousand km. That would make the unit easier to set up and harvest and force the pos owner to put out a flight of combat probes at minimum scan range and press the scan button once before destroying it.


Depending on the POS, alot of them currently don't have guns. Maybe this will encourage moon mining POS owners to sacrifice a bit of functionality to actaully defend it. Until then, siphon away.
Karma Codolle
Chimera Research and Development
#18 - 2013-10-10 00:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Karma Codolle
dumb, i've seen plenty of lowsec moon pos's with 0 guns because the no one is strong enough to go after the alliance holder (guns barely do anything that i've seen anyway for when people want to take it) so the siphon unit would be extremely easy to use.


Though having said that, i wouldn't mind a larger t2 siphon unit added after that prevents it from being shown on overview but still visible in space near POS >:D
Alundil
Rolled Out
#19 - 2013-10-10 04:26:16 UTC
Mia Restolo wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Have you any idea how few POS's are set up to agress only if the POS is attacked? i scanned hundreds of moons before i even discovered they could shoot me (RIP heron).


Some POS's aren't even set to attack anything, been to a few sieges where we warp in a fleet and start shooting turrets and mods for a few minutes before the logi wing pipes up with "umm we're not repping anything, is this thing shooting back?" followed by "yeh, ecm isn't jamming anyone either"...


This....always pretty funny

I'm right behind you
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#20 - 2013-10-10 17:18:39 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Mia Restolo wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Have you any idea how few POS's are set up to agress only if the POS is attacked? i scanned hundreds of moons before i even discovered they could shoot me (RIP heron).


Some POS's aren't even set to attack anything, been to a few sieges where we warp in a fleet and start shooting turrets and mods for a few minutes before the logi wing pipes up with "umm we're not repping anything, is this thing shooting back?" followed by "yeh, ecm isn't jamming anyone either"...


This....always pretty funny


I've accidentally set my POS this way before...

The default POS setting is to shoot people with a standing below 0. But most players don't have a standings, and so won't be attacked. An easy way to test this: get in a noobship and warp to the POS... wait 20-40 seconds... if it blaps you, it will always blap you.

Another thting to note: Different POS modules have different lock speeds. A small gun locks pretty fast (given their 250mm scan res it would take ~8s to lock a frig), where medium guns (75mm SR, ~30s) and large guns (35mm SR, ~55s) lock very slow. Additionally, Warp Scrambler, Disruptor, and web batters have even lower scan res (30mm SR, taking a long time to lock even a battlecruiser (~30s). Furthermore, if you estimate the damage types & tank correctly, even an iteron can take a few hits and survive.

In other words, if the POS doesn't auto-aggro the siphon, you will be able to loot at will if you exercise some forethought.
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