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Introduce "Super Freighter" [New Ship]

Author
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-10-08 12:15:36 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hello Space Friends!

My name is Lyris Nairn and I have been playing EVE Online since 2008. I have come to you with something that I think is relevant to many of you, and it is certainly relevant to me! I think we need bigger flying boxes.

Right now the ship with the biggest cargo hold is the Charon, which hauls a little less than a million cubic meters. I do not think this is enough cargo space for some of the really big industrial tycoons, market barons, or logistics folks. I would propose a new class of ship, or perhaps just a single ship usable by any race, that would have an utterly massive cargo hold. The proposed ship would be able to hold 10-100 million cubic meters at least, which would make it a lot more versatile.

Such a ship would allow Sovereignty structures to be moved more easily, as some of them presently require a full freighter to move individually due to their size. Such a ship would allow capital and supercapital production to be streamlined by making it easier to move the capital components and the enormous amount of minerals needed to construct them. Such a ship would be able to more easily supply forward bases for deployed forces, in all areas of space: whenever there is a war between any two parties there is a lot of logistical burden required to move the billions of cubic meters of ships and modules. Such a ship would allow patch day and post-devblog day rushes on the markets to be done more quickly, which would lead to more quickly stabilized prices and quicker payouts for those who benefit from them. Such a ship would also allow someone to actually make profitable use of non-refinery systems in nullsec (by moving an absolutely tremendous volume of ore to a refinery), thus expanding the number of systems that people can use in both NPC and Player Controlled nullsec.

And so on. The benefits of such a huge ship are many. I think this a great idea that will have positive effects on the game.

Let me know what you think in the comments!


supported as long as the following conditions are met.

1. use jump bridges , titan bridges or any other type of bridge. gate to gate only.
2. align and warp very very slowly.
3. Have a significantly lower tank than normal freighters.
4. Not allow the transport of capitol ships into high sec (carriers /dreads /titans).
5. Have a ten minute log off timer after every gate jump.
6. Cost 20 bill or so to build.
7. Have what tank it does have in hull to minimise logi keeping it alive.

i would love to meet ships like that Evil

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#42 - 2013-10-08 12:43:33 UTC
That "station container mover structure thingy" idea:

Please find a way these can not be jettisoned by pricks at 12-15 kms around gates in a cornucopia of lagtastic win, in which case you will have earned my vote.
Samuel Slade
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#43 - 2013-11-17 04:50:43 UTC
the super freighter could have a capital component bay so it doesn't carry capitals to high sec and it could just become a capital component hauler that would be nice. it should take trial on sisi of least to see how things could work around it.Big smile
Will Harold
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2013-11-17 04:57:24 UTC
PopeUrban wrote:
Countersuggestion:

Station Container Jumpframe

This is not a ship, and does not contain station containers. This is in stead a spiderey assemblage of propulsion systems and grappling arms used to do one thing only: get station containers in to space and moving.
This is an ORE vessel as there isn't a whole lot to be gained from racial variants of such a simple system.

Essentially, it's not so much a ship as it is a big claw thingy you wrap around a station container to turn it in to a ship. It is targetable separately from the container, and can be destroyed or disengaged in space.

When latched to a container it has the expected sluggish handling characteristics, but when unlatched it is suprisingly compact and agile due to its massive propulsion systems push very little mass. When unlatched its characteristics are more akin to that of a cruiser.

This would allow:

Anchoring station containers in space
Moving full station containers from system to system

This would not allow:

Opening station containers or browsing their contents in space. These containers are mag-sealed and function like super plastic wrap. The ball has to be in our court before you can get at the contents.
Jettisoning mini cans in space


Why is this better than a new bigness ranked freighter?

Risk and meta.

You can move an obscene amount of cargo in one swoop with these, but if you're shot off your box the entire thing can be grabbed up by an enemy cargo frame, creating fun pathways for emergent content. This means that you trade the risk of not only losing your cargo, but handing the entire sum of that cargo to your opponents if you screw this up, assuming station containers have a pretty huge mass of EHP once in space.

Considering the low cost of containers, you could use these to play a shell game of real and fake containers.

This vessel would be cheap to construct, but due to its construction would have expensive fuel costs to latch containers, undock containers, and jump. The idea here being that you're actually taking a bigger risk using it to move things in a single trip, and that as a high reward action this is also high risk but low investment enough to be worth trying.

In essence it employs a new and fun piece of content generation rather than absolute removal of risk, while still performing the goal of efficiently moving single large shipments vast distances within a single trip. I feel that just another big cargo ship wouldn't add much to gameplay for anyone but the hauler, and wouldn't be all that attractive to entities that already have or have contracted JF fleets, escorts, etc. to handle the logistics chains where it would be useful.

The idea of a cheap ship than can push unopenable station containers means more use because it's cheaper to both get in to and lose, and more lucrative to intercept, both of these create improved gameplay for both the hauler and the interceptor, and it doesn't invalidate or remove the role of the existing freighters which are much better suited for multiple trips and decently tanked hauling without a large escort contingent, and would still fill a vital role on sov deployment and a large number of already established supply chain uses.

These would be op-enablers. Ships that would reward and encourage fleet escort/transport ops because the whole shipment gets there in one trip, and there is potential for some real objective based fights that don't just involve blowing something up that has tons of HP.

Additional crazy idea:
Allow it to be fit like a poor man's T1 cruiser, but have the fittings only be effective when unlatched from a container. This would allow it to release its box and tackle or otherwise participate in defending its cargo. Might be OP, might be fun.


This is such a kickass idea that I have to ask if you even have a life. And, yes, that should be taken as a compliment. Haha

+1
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#45 - 2013-11-17 06:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Such a ship would allow Sovereignty structures to be moved more easily, as some of them presently require a full freighter to move individually due to their size. Such a ship would allow capital and supercapital production to be streamlined by making it easier to move the capital components and the enormous amount of minerals needed to construct them.

Omega Flames wrote:
I whole heartedly agree with this. If you've ever built a cap ship you know it's several frieghter loads to build just one cap ship and God help you if you mined in 1 system and need to xfer the ore to another system to refine or did a large mining op and need to move all those mins to market. Not allowing a cap ship to be unpackaged in highsec or just not letting you put a cap ship in the new frieghter at all would prevent bringing cap ships into highsec

*goes off to bath in bleach to wash off the stink of agreeing with a goon

Why should building new stations and caps/supercaps be streamlined and an easy feat? Make it a group activity with several freighters at once if you want to decrease load on 1 pilot.

Galphii wrote:
I think the arbitrary 'capitals can't go into highsec' rule should be removed and replaced with 'capitals that appear in highsec will meet CONCORD dreadnaughts and die in a fire', you know, to avoid breaking immersion. Then you can carry caps around in super freighters to your heart's content.

Poor Veldnaught...

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Heisenbergur
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2013-11-17 06:07:40 UTC
This ship would have to be extremely slow to balace it with the already snail like freighters.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2013-11-17 13:18:41 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:


Galphii wrote:
I think the arbitrary 'capitals can't go into highsec' rule should be removed and replaced with 'capitals that appear in highsec will meet CONCORD dreadnaughts and die in a fire', you know, to avoid breaking immersion. Then you can carry caps around in super freighters to your heart's content.

Poor Veldnaught...

Why would Concord mess with their true master?
Better that they give him the truest aid, death to all competition.
And by that I mean the absolute destruction of War Decs INC
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#48 - 2013-11-17 14:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
First, I want to say +1 to OP for a very well-written post. It's much better and much easier to read than a lot of the stuff I usually see around F&I. It's unfortunate that my posts aren't as nice, but since people seem able to read them I suppose they could be worse. All of this is neither here nor there, so let's move on quickly.

With that out of the way, I wanted a few more replies to consider before actually adding my own. I also wanted a little more time to find properly useful ways to word my thoughts. It's been a while and I've considered these things, so I'll add my reply.

A major problem in EVE, I think, is power projection. The ability to conduct wars, occupations and general territorial conquest anywhere in the galaxy with minimal travel time and minimal logistics strain is, in my opinion, a Very Bad Thing™. When I first heard that a certain to-remain-nameless alliance is able to travel from one end of EVE to the other in only 15 minutes, my first reaction was "Holy ****." My second reaction was "oh no, jump drives and Titan bridges aren't imbalanced at all." Really, it's no wonder that EVE has basically become "CFC vs Everyone Else Online" when travel is like that.

While you make some very good and very reasonable points, such as sov structures being enormous and the convenience of hauling large quantities of ice/ore/market goods/ship materials for better efficiency, you also directly reference points that I think would serve to increase the ease of power projection beyond what already exists. Specifically, being able to more easily supply forward bases and being able to more easily carry in sov structures.

Forward bases, I think, should be challenging - if not difficult - to keep adequately supplied. The challenge and burden of this should rightly increase as that forward position moves ever-farther away from that force's main center of operations. Think of the logistical burden as being a force of resistance acting against power projection.

Hauling in sov structures should not be an insignificant undertaking either, in my opinion. The expansion of an alliance's sov becomes almost effortless when one pilot can bring in a constellation's worth of sov structures in a single trip.

As far as market PvP is concerned, anyone who can has the wealth and sales volume to call themselves a "market baron" or "industrial tycoon" can afford a fleet of alts - or even employees - with freighters and jump freighters to move their goods hither and thither in preparation for or in reaction to patches and dev blogs. There's no need to give them an even bigger advantage - and even more enormous profits - than what they currently enjoy.

I'm not going to touch on the "capitals in highsec" aspect, since everyone else seems to have beaten me to it.

All in all, good post but with absolute certainty I do not support your proposal.
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-11-18 16:51:48 UTC
A T3 freighter? Modular so it can be fitted for a variety of tasks. Ore, ships, general cargo etc.. Mix and match on the various modules, specialised modules have the highest volume for one particular cargo. Ought not to be hard to implement, all the software has been written. Just need to define the ship and the blueprints.
1FSTCAT
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#50 - 2013-11-24 00:57:03 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Such a ship could also move capitals into highsec.

just put in a capital ship component hangar and make it a capital component freighter
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