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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1301 - 2013-10-08 09:10:56 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
I'm sure someone has said it, but 1k dps cloaky .....O_O



I would love to see a 1k dps build......
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1302 - 2013-10-08 09:47:46 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
I'm sure someone has said it, but 1k dps cloaky .....O_O



I would love to see a 1k dps build......

Like 30 first pages of this thread are full of discussion on those gank (lol)fits.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1303 - 2013-10-08 09:49:41 UTC
Actually just from looking at it there is no inentive to actually armortank those ships, they just do so much better with a shieldfit. Get like 800dps, 4 medium neuts and 38k EHP. RR-Tengus fit onto the same bridge.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1304 - 2013-10-08 09:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

Now, I can see that CCP have aimed these ships at low sec, not null sec, and they are intended to also do combat sites, not just relic/data sites. However I feel that this creates a bad mix. As either they are good at combat sites, or relic/data sites. You can't fit rigs for both. And you can't fit mods for both at the same time.

I am sure someone will find flaws with this also, but here goes anyway.

When I do high sec exploration, I fit my Navy Vexor for both and it only has 4 mids. It easily does 4/10 most all unrated complexes and all Data and Relic sites I come across.

How capable this will be as an all in one is yet to be seen. I personally plan to do some serous testing for an all in one fit once they are ready on Sisi.

A navy cruiser in a 4/10 with good skills is a cake walk.

Now go look at a 6/10. See if you can do that short changing yourself 2 mid slots in your navy Vexor. As the Vexor is a fairly equivalent ship
Now take a T1 Exploration Frigate into Null sec. Without any exploration rigs at all. You can use T2 Mods & Sisters probes. Now see how well you do Null sec Data/Relic sites.

You aren't comparing situations at all. Just showing how you are overkilling high sec sites with Navy ships.

I took a rookie ship into null sec with T1 modules an successfully hacked the entire site, some claim I falsified my results.
I will find a 6/10 and do just that when I get home from work.

If you wish to see my results look at this post.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3695893#post3695893


While it appears the confidence level of those tests is rather low, and while some may think you selected only for results that supported your position, I never accused you of that.I am sure that even more will come to their own conclusion now.

What i did say and others said is that your results do not reflect the experience of others on Tranquility.Note CURRENT USERS IN NULL ON TRANQUILITY,!!!

Balance is an interesting choice of word, I contend that it is not reasonable that without t2 accessories and archeology and hacking to V ,this ship, which is designed as an exploration ship. is confined to Hisec and possibly areas of losec.

It is not reasonable that when under the the threat of attack while dealing with the expectation of the dreadful loot spew and continuously spamming dscan,while your screen is 80% covered by the minigame, After having negotiated warp bubbles, gate camps roaming gangs wannabe Pirates etc to get to a null relic or Data site, if I am lucky, lucky i point out If I am good,really good I might just might get 2 out of 10, or quite possibly 0 because the ship was crippled before birth.
It would very simply not be worth using this ship for exploration.

T2 analysers should give you an advantage, and they will, even if as we ask the ship is given virus strength +10
We do not wish you not to have an advantage, we just wish the ship to do it's job, we cannot carry multiple ships around when we explore, we wish to be in the wilds far far away from you ..... for so many reasons.......... We require a ship that can do it all, not all the best, you can fit your T2 and officers bits for that if you wish bling them out make it easy and make them shiny,we don't care, we want functional not crippled.

Explorers want a ship to explore not an SUV.

we wish to go far from the maddening crowd, away from civilisation, away from stations.

We do not want to explore the wall mart car park where we can pick up another vehicle to make the job possible.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1305 - 2013-10-08 10:20:35 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?


My wanting the +10 virus strength has nothing to do with expecting to be able to complete high end sites without T2 equipment. My wanting the +10 virus strength is because I want to explore in these “exploration themed” ships.

When I saw the stream announcing these ships I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships for me to explore in!”

Then when I read the specs announced in this post I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships that I'm totally not going to explore in.”

Because why would I pay more to explore in a ship that is less potent at analysis and hacking?

Just so I can solo some lowsec combat sites? What a frightful waste and a terrible disappointment.
Scorpionstrike
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1306 - 2013-10-08 10:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scorpionstrike
Perfect i have been waiting for this for ages ! i have plenty of posts lol ! can not wait,..... lasers on the cruiser nice suprise :-)

Why not name the cruiser ( Rubicon ) ? sounds like a good name for this ship.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1307 - 2013-10-08 10:23:46 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?


My wanting the +10 virus strength has nothing to do with expecting to be able to complete high end sites without T2 equipment. My wanting the +10 virus strength is because I want to explore in these “exploration themed” ships.

When I saw the stream announcing these ships I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships for me to explore in!”

Then when I read the specs announced in this post I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships that I'm totally not going to explore in.”

Because why would I pay more to explore in a ship that is less potent at analysis and hacking?

Just so I can solo some lowsec combat sites? What a frightful waste and a terrible disappointment.



You guys are totally exaggerating, I would have no issue doing null sites with +5 virus strength and T2 gear.

None whatsoever.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1308 - 2013-10-08 10:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Onictus wrote:
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?


My wanting the +10 virus strength has nothing to do with expecting to be able to complete high end sites without T2 equipment. My wanting the +10 virus strength is because I want to explore in these “exploration themed” ships.

When I saw the stream announcing these ships I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships for me to explore in!”

Then when I read the specs announced in this post I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships that I'm totally not going to explore in.”

Because why would I pay more to explore in a ship that is less potent at analysis and hacking?

Just so I can solo some lowsec combat sites? What a frightful waste and a terrible disappointment.



You guys are totally exaggerating, I would have no issue doing null sites with +5 virus strength and T2 gear.

None whatsoever.

I do not think anyone is saying that.
What they are saying is either,it is not reasonable that a ship has to have all skills maxed out and all fittings maxed out to do it's BASIC function. Or why buy a multi hundred million isk ship where a 300k frigate does exactly the same job.
Would it be reasonable to have all gunnery skills to V and T2 guns to have more functionality than a civilian laser?
With other equipment T2 is a step in improving the performance and adds in some cases extra functionality.
Data and archeology sites are not like this,
with +5 basically T1 fail T2 win.
With +10 T1 ha rd T2 better.
Can anyone really say this does not make more sense?
We are not asking for a win button, we are asking for these ships to be capable of being reasonably used, and can be improved if you wish to do this role efficiently.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1309 - 2013-10-08 10:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
While it appears the confidence level of those tests is rather low, and while some may think you selected only for results that supported your position, I never accused you of that.I am sure that even more will come to their own conclusion now.
What i did say and others said is that your results do not reflect the experience of others on Tranquility.Note CURRENT USERS IN NULL ON TRANQUILITY,!!!

Balance is an interesting choice of word, I contend that it is not reasonable that without t2 accessories and data and hacking to V this ship, which is designed as an exploration ship. is confined to Hisec and possibly areas of losec.

It is not reasonable that when under the the threat of attack while dealing with the expectation of the dreadful loot spew.After having negotiated warp bubbles, gate camps roaming gangs wannabe Pirates etc to get to a null relic or Data site, if I am lucky, lucky i point out If I am good,really good I might just might get 2 out of 10, not quite possibly 0 because the ship was crippled before birth.
It would very simply not be worth using this ship for exploration.

T2 analysers should give you an advantage, and they will, even if as we ask the ship is given virus strength +10
We do not wish you not to have an advantage, we just wish the ship to do it's job, we cannot carry multiple ships around when we explore, we wish to be in the wilds far far away from you ..... for so many reasons.......... We require a ship that can do it all, not all the best, you can fit your T2 and officers bits for that if you wish bling them out make it easy and make them shiny,we don't care, we want functional not crippled.

Explorers want a ship to explore not an SUV.

we wish to go far from the maddening crowd, away from civilisation, away from stations.

We do not want to explore the wall mart car park where we can pick up another vehicle to make the job possible.

Firstly, exlporers already have 8 ships specialized in exploration : covops and T3. And I won't speak about all the other ships able to do it.

secondly, ship functionnality is assessed based on ALL V skills and T2 gear (T2 is not bling), and it appear that all you want is to do high end nullsec sites without this T2 gear doesn't it ?

Thirdly, these new ships are not only exploring ships, they are also combat ship. Giving them both good combat ability and top end exploring ability would make a lot of ships completely useless and would remove the principal of choice of the game by making any other choice a bad one. For additionnal informations, see the T3 problem and how they managed the T3 vs CS link problem.

Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too. Your personnal feeling and assertions don't prove anything as they are subject to psychological bias (bad things are more easily remembered than good ones) as well as interest conflict (you don't have any interest to show results which discard to your theory and you showed that your not interested in doing this anyway).

Therefor, you only showed that you don't care about balance in itself but only want to tune this new beautiful ship for your personnal usage.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1310 - 2013-10-08 10:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
While it appears the confidence level of those tests is rather low, and while some may think you selected only for results that supported your position, I never accused you of that.I am sure that even more will come to their own conclusion now.
What i did say and others said is that your results do not reflect the experience of others on Tranquility.Note CURRENT USERS IN NULL ON TRANQUILITY,!!!

Balance is an interesting choice of word, I contend that it is not reasonable that without t2 accessories and data and hacking to V this ship, which is designed as an exploration ship. is confined to Hisec and possibly areas of losec.

It is not reasonable that when under the the threat of attack while dealing with the expectation of the dreadful loot spew.After having negotiated warp bubbles, gate camps roaming gangs wannabe Pirates etc to get to a null relic or Data site, if I am lucky, lucky i point out If I am good,really good I might just might get 2 out of 10, not quite possibly 0 because the ship was crippled before birth.
It would very simply not be worth using this ship for exploration.

T2 analysers should give you an advantage, and they will, even if as we ask the ship is given virus strength +10
We do not wish you not to have an advantage, we just wish the ship to do it's job, we cannot carry multiple ships around when we explore, we wish to be in the wilds far far away from you ..... for so many reasons.......... We require a ship that can do it all, not all the best, you can fit your T2 and officers bits for that if you wish bling them out make it easy and make them shiny,we don't care, we want functional not crippled.

Explorers want a ship to explore not an SUV.

we wish to go far from the maddening crowd, away from civilisation, away from stations.

We do not want to explore the wall mart car park where we can pick up another vehicle to make the job possible.

Firstly, exlporers already have 8 ships specialized in exploration : covops and T3. And I won't speak about all the other ships able to do it.

secondly, ship functionnality is assessed based on ALL V skills and T2 gear (T2 is not bling), and it appear that all you want is to do high end nullsec sites without this T2 gear doesn't it ?

Thirdly, these new ships are not only exploring ships, they are also combat ship. Giving them both good combat ability and top end exploring ability would make a lot of ships completely useless and would remove the principal of choice of the game by making any other choice a bad one. For additionnal informations, see the T3 problem and how they managed the T3 vs CS link problem.

Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too. Your personnal feeling and assertions don't prove anything as they are subject to psychological bias (bad things are more easily remembered than good ones) as well as interest conflict (you don't have any interest to show results which discard to your theory and you showed that your not interested in doing this anyway).

Therefor, you only showed that you don't care about balance in itself but only want to tune this new beautiful ship for your personnal usage.

You have been advised that you have reported for using multiple identities to spam this thread, please confine your use to one identity, your arguments will stand or fall by their own merits,It is not necessary to do this.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1311 - 2013-10-08 10:56:18 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Firstly, exlporers already have 8 ships specialized in exploration : covops and T3...

And what is the price gap between those two classes of ships? There's no middle ground for risk and reward there. You either pay very little for a ship that can't fight or you pay much for a ship that can. These news ships could fill a void there and that is what I had hoped they would do.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Giving them both good combat ability and top end exploring ability would make a lot of ships completely useless...

But doesn't the T3 have good combat ability and top end exploring ability?

Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too....

I don't want to be just “allowed” to hack and analyze in nullsec. I want to explore the nullsec frontier in earnest.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1312 - 2013-10-08 10:58:16 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Firstly, exlporers already have 8 ships specialized in exploration : covops and T3...

And what is the price gap between those two classes of ships? There's no middle ground for risk and reward there. You either pay very little for a ship that can't fight or you pay much for a ship that can. These news ships could fill a void there and that is what I had hoped they would do.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Giving them both good combat ability and top end exploring ability would make a lot of ships completely useless...

But doesn't the T3 have good combat ability and top end exploring ability?

Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too....

I don't want to be just “allowed” to hack and analyze in nullsec. I want to explore the nullsec frontier in earnest.

Thank you for putting it so clearly,
+ 1000

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1313 - 2013-10-08 11:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Posted in error

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1314 - 2013-10-08 11:09:33 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Firstly, exlporers already have 8 ships specialized in exploration : covops and T3...

And what is the price gap between those two classes of ships? There's no middle ground for risk and reward there. You either pay very little for a ship that can't fight or you pay much for a ship that can. These news ships could fill a void there and that is what I had hoped they would do.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Giving them both good combat ability and top end exploring ability would make a lot of ships completely useless...

But doesn't the T3 have good combat ability and top end exploring ability?

Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too....

I don't want to be just “allowed” to hack and analyze in nullsec. I want to explore the nullsec frontier in earnest.

Then pay the price of it with the T3 and skill up.

The Stratios will be a steping stone between covops and T3, king of lowsec ; but IMO T3 is OP and difficulty to do top end data/relic sites for combat ship seems to be intended.

And on top of that, +5 virus bonus seem to be enough to do nullsec sites according to some people ; and from my point of view, they are more trustworthy the those who disagree because there are some screenshot to back the claims of the firsts and the seconds seem too lazy to skill up for T2 gear.

BTW, I don't remember exploration to be a guaranted payout activity ; failure was always a possible issue. Anyway, market will balance things out.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1315 - 2013-10-08 11:10:09 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Firstly, exlporers already have 8 ships specialized in exploration : covops and T3...

And what is the price gap between those two classes of ships? There's no middle ground for risk and reward there. You either pay very little for a ship that can't fight or you pay much for a ship that can. These news ships could fill a void there and that is what I had hoped they would do.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Giving them both good combat ability and top end exploring ability would make a lot of ships completely useless...

But doesn't the T3 have good combat ability and top end exploring ability?

Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too....

I don't want to be just “allowed” to hack and analyze in nullsec. I want to explore the nullsec frontier in earnest.

Then pay the price of it with the T3 and skill up.

The Stratios will be a steping stone between covops and T3, king of lowsec ; but IMO T3 is OP and difficulty to do top end data/relic sites for combat ship seems to be intended.

And on top of that, +5 virus bonus seem to be enough to do nullsec sites according to some people ; and from my point of view, they are more trustworthy the those who disagree because there are some screenshot to back the claims of the firsts and the seconds seem too lazy to skill up for T2 gear.

BTW, I don't remember exploration to be a guaranted payout activity ; failure was always a possible issue. Anyway, market will balance things out.


Reported

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1316 - 2013-10-08 11:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sorry, i'm confused, which is the attack dog identity and which is the reasonable one, they keep getting mixed up, this is getting so tiresome. please cease.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1317 - 2013-10-08 11:14:32 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Reported

When reality is not to your taste, just denying it won't make it unreal.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1318 - 2013-10-08 11:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
I am sorry, i am only going to reply to one identity, it is too tiring trying to keep on top of this.

@ Omnathious Deninard/Bouh Revetoile]
I am eternally grateful that The CCP designers do not require your permission, and that you have neither the capability or authority to decide ship design.
I look forward to their decision and reasoned consideration of the opinions of a large number of genuine posters on this forum.

CCP Please make a decision, It is so tiring trying to keep up the challenge of standing up to those who would spam this thread to make things as they/he wants, and drown everyone else out, everything has been said, possibly a good time to lock this thread until your decision?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1319 - 2013-10-08 11:41:06 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?


My wanting the +10 virus strength has nothing to do with expecting to be able to complete high end sites without T2 equipment. My wanting the +10 virus strength is because I want to explore in these “exploration themed” ships.

When I saw the stream announcing these ships I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships for me to explore in!”

Then when I read the specs announced in this post I thought:
“Oh wow! Shiny, expensive new Sisters of Eve faction ships that I'm totally not going to explore in.”

Because why would I pay more to explore in a ship that is less potent at analysis and hacking?

Just so I can solo some lowsec combat sites? What a frightful waste and a terrible disappointment.

Exploration encompasses more than just data and relic sites, combat sites are included in the "Exploration" category as well. If your main co seen is just relic and data sites there are much more specialized ships for you.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1320 - 2013-10-08 11:43:08 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Fourthly, +5 virus bonus is enough for lowsec, and as some people showed, allow for nullsec site gathering too....

I don't want to be just “allowed” to hack and analyze in nullsec. I want to explore the nullsec frontier in earnest.[/quote]
Many players by this point have started to realize these ships are aimed at low sec.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.