Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well, to be honest, you'll need warfare links to fully use their potential. I agree, it shouldn't be required for the lowest levels, but I'd consider them important in the long run/for the higher ranks.

I don't like how I have lvl4 certs for the nomad though I can't even fly it yet

drone control range.

Also to have mastery in my armor logi ships, I need shield emission skills.

- at 19.9m sp in drones, i have mastery 2 since i do not have the useless drones rigging skill. i think that's a bit harsh.
- split the corp management mastery up between corp management and asset management? empire control and starbase defense really are not the same thing.
- corp management mastery requires diplomatic relations for the first mastery level, yet corporation creation does not require it
- personal preference would have been to keep the two t2 gunnery specs in separate certs. if you have pulse lasers at all 5 and no beam skills at all, is your mastery truely 2?
- a single mastery for all four warfare link types? single type of links fully maxed is mastery level nil?
- production mastery requires a lot of skills at level 5 that no production job in eve needs (like battleship construction 5). there should be different masteries for t1, t2, t3 and capital production. i know ccp hates content for industrialists, but this is like a single certificate for all of spaceship command.
- Straight up research requires the following 5 skills: lab op, adv lab op, science, research, metallurgy. why hacking I for the first mastery level? its a req skill for encryption methods, but makes no sense in a research cert. especially not at level 5 in the end, when it was only ever imported as a prerequisite at level 2
- t2 invention should go into its own mastery
- t3 reverse engineering should go into its own mastery

Overall: racial alternate skills like sensor compensation should either be split into different certs, or be removed from it. you don't have a single gunnery certificate for all 3 turret types that starts requiring the capital versions at mastery 2 either

The entire production and research certificates are as shallow, uninspired, unloved and "i had to add them" as the entire industrial skill progression and mechanics ingame. As they are on sisi, all they will be is (a) unhelpful (b) confusing. The better option would be to remove them and rely on the various help chats, like the last 10 years.

The advice given to new players that look at 200m SP characters is always to specialize in something in order to catch up. Yet most of the masteries give the impression that one has to skill all 4 races to be any good at anything. Which only results in one being bad at everything if started too early.

[Edit]
Also, imagine a 72m SP pilot that can only fly two ships: Ragnarok and Naglfar. Titan/Dread 5, Doomsday 5, Cap Turrets 5, T2 Siege etc. (he can obviously sit and look helpless in a few more. really fly he can only those 2).

Naglfar: Mastery Level 1
- missing for 2: electronics upgrades for signal amplifiers, eccm backup processors and co-processors
- missing for 3: off-racial sensor compensations, electronic superiority rigging (?!), astronautics rigging
- missing for 4: energy grid upgrades 5 in case you need an RCUII
- missing for 5: advanced target management 5, in case you have a dreadnought with more than 7 targets (?!)
Interesting note: tactical weapon configuration is not needed at all. base skills mechanics and hull upgrades suddenly appear at mastery 5. armor/hull buffer on a shield ship seems to be "elite"?

Ragnarok: Mastery Level 0
- missing for 1: warfare links. yes they can be fitted, but are unbonused. especially useless on the rag, since even its "special titan bonus" could be achieved in near equivalent strength by regular ships (spread got a bit bigger, but in return now every bonused warfare platform has skirmish and gets it, compared to avatar's truely unique). Yes it was a conscious omission on my part, still ridiculous to have this as a level 1 requirement imho. Why not add FC5 as mastery 1 requirement so the entire fleet can get the special bonus?
- missing for 2: electronics upgrades again
- missing for 3: off-racial sensor compensations again. electronic superiority rigging again, astronautics rigging
- missing for 4: energy grid upgrades 5 again.
- missing for 5: adv. target management again
Interesting note: Jump Portal Generation not required at all. Doomsday Device not required at all. Clone Vat Bay not required at all. Smartbombs? Energy Neutralizers? Combat Boosters? I really hope that by the time someone has the ISK for a titan, the certificate system is no longer relevant to that person. But if anyone were to skill for a Rag by solely skilling the Mastery to 5, that person would go into history with one of the most awesome failfits ever.


That said, visually it is a huge step up from the certificate system. UI usability has also improved tremendously. In terms of helpfulness and value I consider it the same minefield as before - you need to already know all the skills in order to identify the bad apples in the masteries, at which point you no longer need to look at them.

[Edit2]
Carriers:
- all four warfare specialist skills for carrier mastery 1?
- off-racial sensor compensations at mastery 3
- at mastery 4, a carrier with no missile or turret hardpoints requires advanced weapon upgrades

I've been looking at this thread and the "test server" subsection of the forums, we'll be making tweaks to the certificates based on your feedback (mainly having a look at Micro Jump Drive skill in navigation, or the Sensor Compensation skills).

Good point on the rig skills as well - they'll most likely stay in the last certificate level, but may end up being moved up a bit.

my suggestion: make those skills that are unrealistic, and that you know are unrealistic, their own certificates.

like rigging.

if I view the certificates as a motivator to spend sub time on something I didn't think was important, they make sense. but I like immersion so I'm ignoring them because basically I don't feel they apply to me.

just the level V certificates I saw, for which I was missing rigging skills to V, or was it IV

if you imagined I would plan my skills according to those certs, you are mistaken.

certificates were something I might've set to public one or two at a time, but never really mentioned. but now, for the sake of the survivability of this game based on new player retention, I'm going to strongly suggest ignoring that part of the gui

I get the reasoning behind SP sinks, but don't do it in this format. do it like sensor comps, where there was a benefit to go with the sink. the problem with this impractical certification thing is unless a player is accustomed to rejecting parts of the game that are misleading or bad--purely through experience as a [specifically] EVE player--it makes a player feel inadequate at best.

I haven't qualified my claims with facts or stats, but until you make the certs more realistic, I'm going to steer less experienced players (CCP Soundwave help us) away from them.

calmly disappointed and not mad, because I'm hopeful that you want to keep EVE around as much as I want to keep my girls. and it's what I need to believe to avoid the unhealthy practice of undocking in defiance.

at least let us make the public, selectively. it would be a good bait tactic to display a mastery level II for pretty much everything.

• When I open the mastery tab of a spaceship's "Show Info" window, I would like to see the current level of my mastery highlighted/selected/displayed
• At present the level V mastery is a different colour to the rest, which is visually confusing: why do I have level 5 mastery when I am a brand new character?
• When a certificate is expanded in "Mastery" view, or when I am looking at the skill requirements in a certificate's "Show Info", please move the satisfied requirements to the bottom of the list, leaving the untrained skills at the top, then the partially trained skills in the middle. Sort order within these groups can be arbitrary, but I would prefer simple alphabetical order or alphabetical inside existing skill groupings (these groupings make sense to me because I am familiar with all these skills, but to a new player it might be simpler to either sort in alphabetical order, or have a collapsible section for skill groups)

I like the way that clicking the mastery logo in the ship info screen will switch to the Mastery tab and select the appropriate mastery level.

Also IMO to be at lvl 4 in BC's you should not need warfare links

There are quite a few ship types that have a certificate required way to early when you consider its importance to the ship.

Good point as well - keeping warfare links on level4-5 masteries on Tech1 battlecruisers would make sense - however they'll be required from the get go on Command Ships due to their requirements.