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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1281 - 2013-10-07 22:39:55 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?



Explorers, oops still trolling. Sorry i started to answer for the hundredth time.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

No troll, if you can convince my why I will yield the fight. But "because it's a pirate ship" is not a good enough answer.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1282 - 2013-10-07 22:43:19 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?



Explorers, oops still trolling. Sorry i started to answer for the hundredth time.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

No troll, if you can convince my why I will yield the fight. But "because it's a pirate ship" is not a good enough answer.


I refer the honorable gentleman to the responses given in the previous 65 pages.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1283 - 2013-10-07 22:45:01 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?



Explorers, oops still trolling. Sorry i started to answer for the hundredth time.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

No troll, if you can convince my why I will yield the fight. But "because it's a pirate ship" is not a good enough answer.


I refer the honorable gentleman to the responses given in the previous 65 pages.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

Everyone has said give us plus 10, but not one person has said why they should not have to use t2 equipment.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1284 - 2013-10-07 22:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I will ask again for those who want the +10, why do you feel you should be able to do high end sites without T2 equipment?



Explorers, oops still trolling. Sorry i started to answer for the hundredth time.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

No troll, if you can convince my why I will yield the fight. But "because it's a pirate ship" is not a good enough answer.


I refer the honorable gentleman to the responses given in the previous 65 pages.

Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

Everyone has said give us plus 10, but not one person has said why they should not have to use t2 equipment.


Read again, I refer the honorable gentleman to the responses given in the previous 65 pages.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1285 - 2013-10-07 22:49:44 UTC
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1286 - 2013-10-07 22:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

I am very impressed with how the honorable gentleman was able to read 65 pages with such despatch.

There is no desire to condense the entire forum thread, for you, into easy reading, for you to ignore what was said ..again.

However in the interests of fairness I refer the honourable gentleman to post 13 of this forum where he himself suggested +10 virus strength .Possibly before he considered how it would effect his own interests? You may very well think that but I couldn't possibly comment. Fellow capsuleers may wish to verify this for themselves before it is edited?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#1287 - 2013-10-08 00:29:09 UTC
Having been doing exploration since there was an Exploration chat channel, and it was very easy to get to know the people there, when you had to prevent probes from overlapping, and had multiple probes for each type of scanning and site, I'm ok with these ships having a Virus strength of only 5.

There should be some reward for putting in the time to train Hacking V and Archaeology V. The ability to truly put these awesome ships through their paces in nullsec could be considered that way. There are many ships that are useful at skill level IV, but truly shine only at level V. Look at these as another of those.

If you haven't put in the time, and, thus, are unable to go exploring in one of these, I guess you'll have a new goal for your training queue. Use a Cov Ops in the meantime. They work just fine.

Fit it for exploration and Hacking, with the proper rigs, train up Cov Ops IV, or, better still, V, and exercise some patience. Train up your Exploration skills, train up your Drone skills, practice working in a Cov Ops at avoiding gate camps and bubbles.

Once you've done all that, maybe you'll be ready to fly one of these.

That said, hey, it's your ISK.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1288 - 2013-10-08 01:45:28 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

You will still need to train to T2 Modules. +10 Virus strength is required along side T2 Modules to do null sec relic/data sites.

Now, I can see that CCP have aimed these ships at low sec, not null sec, and they are intended to also do combat sites, not just relic/data sites. However I feel that this creates a bad mix. As either they are good at combat sites, or relic/data sites. You can't fit rigs for both. And you can't fit mods for both at the same time. It does give a choice on how you use the ship, but +10 virus strength still makes you make that choice, just as much as +5 does. So +10 does not remove the choice of how you fit your ship. It simply enables you to use these ships in Null Sec relic/data sites.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1289 - 2013-10-08 01:46:06 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

I am very impressed with how the honorable gentleman was able to read 65 pages with such despatch.

There is no desire to condense the entire forum thread, for you, into easy reading, for you to ignore what was said ..again.

However in the interests of fairness I refer the honourable gentleman to post 13 of this forum where he himself suggested +10 virus strength .Possibly before he considered how it would effect his own interests? You may very well think that but I couldn't possibly comment. Fellow capsuleers may wish to verify this for themselves before it is edited?

You insult me, you think I have so little self respect that I would edit a post just because it is contrary to what I feel is the best path now?

That was a theory crafted idea, and I even stated in the post in the original thread it was a crap shoot.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1290 - 2013-10-08 02:00:00 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

Now, I can see that CCP have aimed these ships at low sec, not null sec, and they are intended to also do combat sites, not just relic/data sites. However I feel that this creates a bad mix. As either they are good at combat sites, or relic/data sites. You can't fit rigs for both. And you can't fit mods for both at the same time.

I am sure someone will find flaws with this also, but here goes anyway.

When I do high sec exploration, I fit my Navy Vexor for both and it only has 4 mids. It easily does 4/10 most all unrated complexes and all Data and Relic sites I come across.

How capable this will be as an all in one is yet to be seen. I personally plan to do some serous testing for an all in one fit once they are ready on Sisi.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1291 - 2013-10-08 02:04:24 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

Now, I can see that CCP have aimed these ships at low sec, not null sec, and they are intended to also do combat sites, not just relic/data sites. However I feel that this creates a bad mix. As either they are good at combat sites, or relic/data sites. You can't fit rigs for both. And you can't fit mods for both at the same time.

I am sure someone will find flaws with this also, but here goes anyway.

When I do high sec exploration, I fit my Navy Vexor for both and it only has 4 mids. It easily does 4/10 most all unrated complexes and all Data and Relic sites I come across.

How capable this will be as an all in one is yet to be seen. I personally plan to do some serous testing for an all in one fit once they are ready on Sisi.

A navy cruiser in a 4/10 with good skills is a cake walk.

Now go look at a 6/10. See if you can do that short changing yourself 2 mid slots in your navy Vexor. As the Vexor is a fairly equivalent ship
Now take a T1 Exploration Frigate into Null sec. Without any exploration rigs at all. You can use T2 Mods & Sisters probes. Now see how well you do Null sec Data/Relic sites.

You aren't comparing situations at all. Just showing how you are overkilling high sec sites with Navy ships.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1292 - 2013-10-08 02:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

Now, I can see that CCP have aimed these ships at low sec, not null sec, and they are intended to also do combat sites, not just relic/data sites. However I feel that this creates a bad mix. As either they are good at combat sites, or relic/data sites. You can't fit rigs for both. And you can't fit mods for both at the same time.

I am sure someone will find flaws with this also, but here goes anyway.

When I do high sec exploration, I fit my Navy Vexor for both and it only has 4 mids. It easily does 4/10 most all unrated complexes and all Data and Relic sites I come across.

How capable this will be as an all in one is yet to be seen. I personally plan to do some serous testing for an all in one fit once they are ready on Sisi.

A navy cruiser in a 4/10 with good skills is a cake walk.

Now go look at a 6/10. See if you can do that short changing yourself 2 mid slots in your navy Vexor. As the Vexor is a fairly equivalent ship
Now take a T1 Exploration Frigate into Null sec. Without any exploration rigs at all. You can use T2 Mods & Sisters probes. Now see how well you do Null sec Data/Relic sites.

You aren't comparing situations at all. Just showing how you are overkilling high sec sites with Navy ships.

I took a rookie ship into null sec with T1 modules an successfully hacked the entire site, some claim I falsified my results.
I will find a 6/10 and do just that when I get home from work.

If you wish to see my results look at this post.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3695893#post3695893

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1293 - 2013-10-08 02:18:39 UTC
Now do it again, and FRAPS it this time, with 4-5 sites.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1294 - 2013-10-08 02:27:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Now do it again, and FRAPS it this time, with 4-5 sites.

Tell you what, u find 4-5 sites in null on the test server let me know and i will do them.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Reth Alithes
The Weasel Den
#1295 - 2013-10-08 03:19:27 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Now do it again, and FRAPS it this time, with 4-5 sites.

Contrary to popular opinion, 6/10s are not hard.
Coyote Laughing
#1296 - 2013-10-08 03:50:31 UTC
Dislike.

Sorry, but nothing there for Minmatar and Caldari - no launcher slots for instance.

Giving them Cov Ops has implications, such as jumping with BLOPS fleets.

If it was a cloaked velocity bonus while cloaked, I wouldn't have such a problem.

Give us something related to actual wormhole exploration, such as the Zephyr ability to avoid detection by sleepers.

Obviously, having a ship that can shoot at sleepers without being detected is unbalanced - but that can be addressed.

Training for a cov ops hull is difficult - this has the smell of Pay to Win and the incense of Amarr loving scum all over it.

l8r \o/
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#1297 - 2013-10-08 07:37:48 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
some more food for you. Ishtar can run 8/10's, while this thing cant. t2 resists >>> resist bonus on t1. Ishtar can lock and snipe targets from like 90km no problem.

i do like that the stratios will not have to rely on mwd + cloak trick with its cov ops cloak, which is always hella risky in nullsec. i dunno, i think both ships will have their strengths and weaknesses. while strat wont be able to run harder combat plexes, it'll be able to do other exploration sites while being stealthier.





I see you are still trying to argue pve issues on the balance of this supremely combat able vessel. No one is that stupid 346245166576735 posts later so I assume you have a few million SoE LPs to burn. Good luck with your lobbying but your arguments are drivel.
Nicholas Vierra
Halasenzar Corporation
United Federation of Conifers
#1298 - 2013-10-08 08:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicholas Vierra
CCP Rise wrote:
HERE THEY ARE

What we're shooting for is ships that are themed around exploration and therefor make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking, exploration combat sites, anoms, killing anom runners, spying on people, looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.

We're supporting that model with things like:
  • Covert cloaks
  • Exploration role bonuses
  • Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often
  • Extremely high ship agility
  • And more!

    • Anyways you guys can toy around with these specs and let me know what we missed or what you think would be better and I'll try to make everyone happy (which is usually easy).

    Thanks!

    Astero

    Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
    Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

    Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

    Amarr Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to Armor Resists

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    20% bonus to drone hitpoints

    Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
    Capacitor (amount) : 430
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
    Sensor strength: 13
    Signature radius: 35
    Cargo Capacity: 210


    Stratios

    Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
    Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
    Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

    Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

    Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
    4% bonus to Armor Resists

    Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
    10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

    Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
    Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
    Capacitor (amount) : 1700
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
    Sensor strength: 20
    Signature radius: 150
    Cargo Capacity: 550

    PICTURES (Sorry don't have in-client shots yet)


    Edit: It seems the forums don't want to let me post anything today, sigh, lets try this again

    Personally, I like how both these ships turned out, they offer a good platform for creative fits, I really like the Idea of a Laser based exploration fleet, no need to run out and find ammo.

    The thing I see about these ships is that they don't seem to be perfect for any one particular task, they are wild card ships, meant to do what ever it is you fit them to do, and do it well, but perhaps not as well as a Specialised ship (Like Cov opps ships). I also see them as small fleet ships. Do you want to run null data/ relic sites? bring a Helios or a buzzard then, use one of these to provide cover while it hacks. the new scan sites spew the loot everywhere anyway, why not have someone there to assist you? it makes it so much easier with two or three people. You don't need to be solo for everything in EVE after all. Nice work CCP DEV team, I look forward to playing with these on release day!

    These would also be good "Behind enemy lines" ships. I am considering a few Long deployment fits, perhaps with local reps for armour and hull (Hey, it might work) but, we'll see. again, not as good as a strat cruiser but again, worth a try all the same.

    Come and join us in Deninard!
    Dato Koppla
    Balls Deep Inc.
    Minmatar Fleet Alliance
    #1299 - 2013-10-08 08:24:41 UTC
    I'm sure someone has said it, but 1k dps cloaky .....O_O
    Onictus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #1300 - 2013-10-08 09:09:52 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    As expected, you can't come up with a reason. Because there is none, high end content requires T2 or better modules.

    You will still need to train to T2 Modules. +10 Virus strength is required along side T2 Modules to do null sec relic/data sites.

    Now, I can see that CCP have aimed these ships at low sec, not null sec, and they are intended to also do combat sites, not just relic/data sites. However I feel that this creates a bad mix. As either they are good at combat sites, or relic/data sites. You can't fit rigs for both. And you can't fit mods for both at the same time. It does give a choice on how you use the ship, but +10 virus strength still makes you make that choice, just as much as +5 does. So +10 does not remove the choice of how you fit your ship. It simply enables you to use these ships in Null Sec relic/data sites.


    Not true, I could run null sites easily before a had t2 analyzers.

    Hell, I can run them with a Herron on t1 analyzers, but I'll lose 2-3 out of 6. I had cov op, but only about level 2 when they changed the scanning sites.....And made quite a bit of isk in null.

    It isn't impossible, your loss rate goes up slightly.