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To Captain Constantine, a Response

Author
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#1 - 2013-10-07 20:45:01 UTC
Captain Constantine, I believe it was you had asked me regarding the nature of those that I work with, and instead of posting in that thread, which is already lengthy in of itself , with this which has nothing to do with the topic, I chose to respond to you here.

I would like to clarify to all that I am a Shaman of my tribe, and I deal with many of the spiritual, as well as secular concerns of my people. Concerning those who arrive to our tribe after being liberated, I have found that there exists three kinds of mindsets.

The first is the mindset of those who have not been indoctrinated by the Amar beliefs. These people tend to be those whose lineage tends to have been recently conquered, as such the Amar have not have ample time to erase from them their identity. By far this tends to be the mindset that is easiest to work with, mainly due to the fact they they still retain some portion, no matter how small or contorted of their tribal heritage.

Secondly, the one mindset that I encounter most frequently is that which belongs to those who have known nothing but the Amarr Empire. They tend to come from families who have been enslaved for countless generations, with the recent proclamation many of these tend to be the recently free'd coming to Republic space. They are often times confused and disoriented, many come for no other reason because they were told they were free and to leave Empire space. From this category I encounter; those who come to me because they wish to remove all traces of their enslavement, adopt their heritage in full and fully become part of the tribe, those who no matter what is said or provided to them, have been broken so thoroughly they fear their freedom, reject any trace of their heritage, and in the end the ones who return to Empire, and those who fall in the spectrum in between.

I hope to have answered your question. If not I would be more than happy to clarify any point, as well as to any one that has any questions.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2013-10-07 21:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Constantin Baracca
Cain Aloga wrote:
Captain Constantine, I believe it was you had asked me regarding the nature of those that I work with, and instead of posting in that thread, which is already lengthy in of itself , with this which has nothing to do with the topic, I chose to respond to you here.

I would like to clarify to all that I am a Shaman of my tribe, and I deal with many of the spiritual, as well as secular concerns of my people. Concerning those who arrive to our tribe after being liberated, I have found that there exists three kinds of mindsets.

The first is the mindset of those who have not been indoctrinated by the Amar beliefs. These people tend to be those whose lineage tends to have been recently conquered, as such the Amar have not have ample time to erase from them their identity. By far this tends to be the mindset that is easiest to work with, mainly due to the fact they they still retain some portion, no matter how small or contorted of their tribal heritage.

Secondly, the one mindset that I encounter most frequently is that which belongs to those who have known nothing but the Amarr Empire. They tend to come from families who have been enslaved for countless generations, with the recent proclamation many of these tend to be the recently free'd coming to Republic space. They are often times confused and disoriented, many come for no other reason because they were told they were free and to leave Empire space. From this category I encounter; those who come to me because they wish to remove all traces of their enslavement, adopt their heritage in full and fully become part of the tribe, those who no matter what is said or provided to them, have been broken so thoroughly they fear their freedom, reject any trace of their heritage, and in the end the ones who return to Empire, and those who fall in the spectrum in between.

I hope to have answered your question. If not I would be more than happy to clarify any point, as well as to any one that has any questions.



That completely answers the question, in fact. In my travels, I of course meet many who were not enslaved and only know of the practice by their parents, for good and ill, most often ill for the reason you have enumerated. As a bishop of, essentially, believers in Matari space who do not maintain a residence in Amarr space, I tend to deal with just those sorts of people. Mostly, I do deal with people who have no intention of going back for very long, since transport isn't essentially very difficult to arrange for immigrants.

However, it does help since so many of the people I come into contact have a fundamental dilemma. There are quite a few believers in the Word who have significant and understandable anger towards their former masters who, despite their demonstrable faith, were kept as slaves. Therefore, they are trying to come to terms with their faith even though they have no intention of returning to Amarrian space. There is a great deal of counseling that happens for those people, some of whom have shifted towards shamanism within their adopted communities. Most that I deal with, obviously, have a deep faith in God and wonder whether being ejected into Matari space is a punishment. Given that they are not always being met with essential services, it is easy to imagine.

It is important to galvanize the local community in that respect. The ministry in Matari space generally focuses on these new freedmen who have their faith to their name and little else. We do try to bring people together so that they do not suffer the unkind viscissitudes of fate and can support each other. This means having some kind of understanding with other local communities who do not practice the faith.

Therefore, I very much appreciate your particular appraisals of their situations and your experience in resettling them in the Republic safely. If you have any need of my expertise in the subject as well, please do not hesitate to ask. It is in no one's interest, the Amarrian Empire's or the Minmatar Republic's, to have a group of impoverished former laborers who resent both. It would behoove both of us to help to facilitate their transition and engage them with a community who can get them on their feet and provide them with local support.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#3 - 2013-10-07 23:08:35 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Therefore, I very much appreciate your particular appraisals of their situations and your experience in resettling them in the Republic safely. If you have any need of my expertise in the subject as well, please do not hesitate to ask. It is in no one's interest, the Amarrian Empire's or the Minmatar Republic's, to have a group of impoverished former laborers who resent both. It would behoove both of us to help to facilitate their transition and engage them with a community who can get them on their feet and provide them with local support.



I agree with you here. Unfortunately, resources within the Republic are limited as such we cannot help every one who comes to us as well as we would like, or as well as they deserve. Another aspect that I focus on within my tribe is helping my fellow tribesmen to accommodate and accept the newly free'd men and women. Unfair treatment of our saved brothers and sisters happens all too often. It is unbecoming of our people, and I for one work to eradicate it within my tribe.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2013-10-07 23:16:44 UTC
Cain Aloga wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Therefore, I very much appreciate your particular appraisals of their situations and your experience in resettling them in the Republic safely. If you have any need of my expertise in the subject as well, please do not hesitate to ask. It is in no one's interest, the Amarrian Empire's or the Minmatar Republic's, to have a group of impoverished former laborers who resent both. It would behoove both of us to help to facilitate their transition and engage them with a community who can get them on their feet and provide them with local support.



I agree with you here. Unfortunately, resources within the Republic are limited as such we cannot help every one who comes to us as well as we would like, or as well as they deserve. Another aspect that I focus on within my tribe is helping my fellow tribesmen to accommodate and accept the newly free'd men and women. Unfair treatment of our saved brothers and sisters happens all too often. It is unbecoming of our people, and I for one work to eradicate it within my tribe.


Let me know if I can help. Being a mere Bishop in a "diocese" of such colossal size and scope means that our resources are stretched thin and the community itself is largely self-supported. However, we might have some overlap, and I can always see if I can squeeze some money out of the diocese's budget for humanitarian purposes. I have other methods at my disposal which are probably not viable options for your followers, but the arms of God should stretch outward in welcome. People of my faith have no excuse but to strive towards true humility and charity. If there is anything we can do to make your lives more comfortable, I will do my best.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#5 - 2013-10-09 21:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
To Cain Aloga, a question.

What about Matari who come from the slave society, are liberated into their own society, and within their roots rebel to the savage nature that many claim we have evolved into being?

What if, old ways and peaceful tact, are viewed as weaknesses to an impending advantage by not just eventual enslaving Amarrians but also any society that would aim to subjugate us?

What if, Amarrian ways; from the faith to the provided home, do not fill the void of what feels natural and real to us?

What if, a single glance of Matari outcrying for peace, subjugation, or faith invokes complete and total rage, like a slave witnessing another who gives up, willing to die in the mines, or at the hands of an abusive slaver? For true peace, to us, only comes with death.

Nothing else works, nothing else provides a vent in where everything so hurts.

The lies that are uttered by sympathetic kin where such pain no longer has to be felt, are so empty that your rage envelopes them too. And rather than let them take that kind of fall by martyring themselves for you, you see them as just as wrong as the slave giving up.

So you run. And you embrace the evil you've become to others. You live and ascend within it.

How do you embrace that kind of Matari people? Because misery likes company and I have quite a few people who are interested in knowing your response.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#6 - 2013-10-09 22:19:14 UTC
Might I suggest two rounds to the back of the head?

If the pain is truly beyond help, beyond treatment. If the only option is to head to the frontier and inflict your misery onto others. Where is the use in a life such as that. Cancel your contracts.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#7 - 2013-10-09 22:50:33 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Might I suggest two rounds to the back of the head?

If the pain is truly beyond help, beyond treatment. If the only option is to head to the frontier and inflict your misery onto others. Where is the use in a life such as that. Cancel your contracts.


A beautiful touch. Two rounds would be quite the bliss to a number of people.

And it would make the lives who did this to us incredibly easier.

But where is the fun in that?

Does our savagery have simply no place in the galaxy?

Or does it simply have no place with you?

If so, how dare you, and others like you, put that on us.

Do you think we had a choice? (Sure we have one now, but gosh how warped that choice is.)

A choice of survival, which is all we've ever known, ultimately is going to end with us fighting anyone who finds us a lost cause. It is our hope and our curse.

And you'd best stay away with that view.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2013-10-09 23:59:10 UTC
That savagery has no place in the State. What happens outside it is a matter for others to decide.

Personally I don't think I could justify the oxygen I breathe if my life was devoted to simple wish fulfilment.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#9 - 2013-10-10 00:18:17 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
That savagery has no place in the State. What happens outside it is a matter for others to decide.

Personally I don't think I could justify the oxygen I breathe if my life was devoted to simple wish fulfilment.


You might find your State having a different say soon. There's a reason I've left the Federation recently and am greeted with open arms by Corporate Police Force officials upon docking in Jita, Irjunen, and Nourvukaiken stations, despite my -10 corporate standing with the Protectorate.

Your State doesn't forget people who have served them.

Especially with acts of savagery.

Perhaps you'll be having tea with me, sooner than later. I'll remind you again then how little you really do know your own people.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#10 - 2013-10-10 00:26:13 UTC
The State Protectorate is Heth's orphan - nobody cares how well liked you are by them. Certainly it isn't the arbiter of your relations with the State proper! But yes, there's always a cup of tea for someone who serves our purposes - just please don't mistake an appreciation for utility for appreciation for the whole package.

Go ahead. Step out of line. Then you'll see what I mean.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#11 - 2013-10-10 00:27:39 UTC
Well, the Protectorate is largely a band of privateers. It's a militia.

That said, the concept of docking rights and standings is always one of shaky political ground to stand on. An Amarrian slaver could just as easily attain positive pilot standings with RSS and dock there at the station. He could get out, walk around, visit the capsuleer promenade.

It does not mean he will be sitting down with RSS executives and sharing some tea and crumpets over tales of how he savagely beat a small child that he slapped in chains and sold to the nearest Holder.

In short, docking rights and pilot standings don't really count for much in the greater scheme of things.

Katrina Oniseki

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#12 - 2013-10-10 00:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Isis Dea wrote:
Your State doesn't forget people who have served them.

Especially with acts of savagery.

It might help the discussion if you defined 'savage' and 'acts of savagery.'

Are you just saying that you shot at Protectorate designated targets but you really liked it? If so, I'm not sure how the State would know that you were being savage. I mean, I don't think they have you fill out a questionnaire after each engagement to discern your state of mind.

Alternatively, maybe you skinned a Gallente, rubbed yourself with their blood, and then ran through a State/Mega owned station wearing only your 100% authentic FDU hoodie. I assume they'd respond to that.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2013-10-10 03:53:24 UTC
I have to say, briefly, in the defense of the Caldari, that savagery doesn't seem to be a ubiquitous modus operendi in their space, nor do they necessarily appreciate if you make a spectacle of yourself in any way that they have not been informed in advance of. In Caldari space, iron your clothes, leave the sparkling trinkets and signs of station at home, try to be as low-key as possible. Even when you are speaking in public, you watch your cadence.

So I certainly can't agree that you'd be welcomed to the dinner table, Isis, as much as I'm sure we'd appreciate seeing your lovely face lighting up the room. You have to mind your manners and do your best to fit into the conversation rather than dominate it if you want to actually socialize with the Caldari.

That said, you might find yourself well-tolerated onboard stations where military personnel can keep an eye on you. They appreciate anyone with a decent background in combat that isn't likely to betray them mid-contest. If you are looking to integrate more seamlessly into Caldari society, though, you might want to leave your savagery on the station. Most Caldari law-enforcement officials don't have a use-of-force continuum, and thus they have a tendency to stop perceived defiance or insurgence by the quickest, rather than the most considerate, method.

Savagery may earn you a spot in the military's command chain, but in normal Caldari society it is probably going to earn you a rapid response strike force that doesn't bother bringing manacles.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#14 - 2013-10-10 05:56:08 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Savagery may earn you a spot in the military's command chain, but in normal Caldari society it is probably going to earn you a rapid response strike force that doesn't bother bringing manacles.


And that is why my kind and Caldari society will never mesh well.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-10-10 07:07:02 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Might I suggest two rounds to the back of the head?

If the pain is truly beyond help, beyond treatment. If the only option is to head to the frontier and inflict your misery onto others. Where is the use in a life such as that. Cancel your contracts.

This would be a sign of weakness.
If you have duties to do, you must do them disregarding pain.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-10-10 07:21:41 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Well, the Protectorate is largely a band of privateers. It's a militia.

Incorrect.

Currently, it is the main fighting force of the State. Unfortunately, Caldari Navy stays away from the war, and to my great disappointment, responsibility, planning and execution of war campaigns lay exclusively in capsuleer hands.

I hope, however, that soon either CEP, or reinstated as Executor of the State Heth-haan will properly mobilize Caldari Navy and together we will push gallentean swines back into stone age.

But until it happens, it is only us, who are actively fighting gallentean menace.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-10 10:50:44 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Alternatively, maybe you skinned a Gallente, rubbed yourself with their blood, and then ran through a State/Mega owned station wearing only your 100% authentic FDU hoodie. I assume they'd respond to that.

Presumably with a mental health team and a straitjacket.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2013-10-10 14:30:43 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:

Savagery may earn you a spot in the military's command chain, but in normal Caldari society it is probably going to earn you a rapid response strike force that doesn't bother bringing manacles.


And that is why my kind and Caldari society will never mesh well.


Out of interest, just what IS 'your kind'?

I was assuming you meant Matari, but since I know that Matari people are no more savage and pointlessly violent than anyone else, when put in the right surroundings, I'm thinking this question of which group you self-identify as may lead to the source of our mutual misunderstandings.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#19 - 2013-10-10 15:39:25 UTC
No, simple Matari. That's all. Matari who aren't trying to hide in the ways of old. Matari who aren't trying to escape within Gallente or Amarrian societies. Matari who love what evil has evolved them into and justify the Amarrians who do call us savage.

And you're welcome to continue considering us being merely human.

Hopefully you never get to be enlightened of the difference.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#20 - 2013-10-10 15:53:49 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
No, simple Matari. That's all. Matari who aren't trying to hide in the ways of old. Matari who aren't trying to escape within Gallente or Amarrian societies. Matari who love what evil has evolved them into and justify the Amarrians who do call us savage.

And you're welcome to continue considering us being merely human.

Hopefully you never get to be enlightened of the difference.

You are quite the romantic, ma'am! But I think you confuse genetic and memetic distribution. You're as human as anyone, just a carrier of a particularly invective memeplex. It's fortunately not a particularly virulent one. I do hope that you are able to shed it soon, and safely. Autotoxicity is very common with that sort of structure. Best of luck.
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