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[Rubicon] Interceptors

First post
Author
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#281 - 2013-10-07 17:05:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, I'm back from vacation and fully caught up on this thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

We have sisi updated now with an early Rubicon build so go ahead and check out these versions of the changes there. I'll be putting together some responses to themes in the feedback I'm seeing soon.

Thanks again all!


My Hulk..... OH MY GOD, THE HUMANITY!!!!!!

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#282 - 2013-10-07 18:29:06 UTC
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
#283 - 2013-10-07 19:25:36 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
"A RAZOR Ragnarok accidentally pressed the “Jump” instead of “Bridge” button. Very unlucky in this case as it resulted in the titan being tackled. After a short rage form of a Naga fleet for Russian speakers (from which the footage was taken) and a Rokh fleet for English speakers, the titan was swiftly killed despite RAZOR’s futile attempt to save it with their tier 3 bc gang. Furthermore, just as the titan went down, RAZOR jumped in 3 carriers and a single dreadnaught (?) to try to save it.

Titan Killmail

Shortly after, an NC. Maelstrom fleet bridged on a grid ping spot. The Stainwagon fleet warped to the enemy cyno at 100km and attempted a brawl. However, with a relatively “kitchen sink” fleet composition, we decided to bail and head back to reship.

Overall Battle Report

After re shipping to Rail Tengus, the Stainwagon fleet bridged next door to the enemy Maelstrom fleet who were attempting to return to their staging system. After waiting for the enemies to jump through the gate, it was clear they did not want to engage us without some help. So the NC. fleet waited in system for their PL help to arrive. Sure enough, as soon as they did, the NC. gang warped in on our Tengu fleet at optimal and a fight ensued. Despite fighting outnumbered 3 to 1, the Stainwagon Tengu fleet continued fighting, weaving its way under the Maelstrom guns and out of range of the PL Proteus/Loki/Legion gang. However, towards the end of the fight, somehow the PL fleet managed to catch up to the Stainwagon logistics, resulting in the majority of our logi being wiped out. After it was clear that our logi weren’t able to sustain the incoming damage, and our FC pointed and webbed, our Tengu fleet aligned and promptly warped out. Great fights!

Battle Report"


I guess this is what I mean when you have to define the battle field. There is no need for a ceptor in todays eve fleet battles. The interceptor should be good at tackling and surviving period. The speed tank of old should be brought back. I love everyone in this thread talking about dps, tank blah blah blah. The ceptor should not be a solo super frig it should focus on tackling in every battle field eve presents. After a fight the ceptor should be one of the only ships flying off. The only ship they should fear is another ceptor. Give me back my 2 bil ceptor doing 22000 meters per sec that could tackle dive in and out yet kill no one by itself. Define the battle field then the ship ccp


You Sir are completely correct. That is what intys were originally intended for. Why do we ,all of a sudden, need solo, interdiction nullifed, dps, tanking intys? There are so many other ships that fill those roles already! WTF is wrong with people? This change will be a big hit to null sec combat.

Like you said we need intys that can tackle and use SPEED to survive the fight. Not tank, not dps, But SPEED.

Before the nanonerf intys were a very usable ship for lots of things. The nano nerf is the reason intys are so bad now.
Theng Hofses
State War Academy
Caldari State
#284 - 2013-10-07 19:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Theng Hofses
The changes to warp speed especially for inties are shifting the balance of power dramatically to the smaller attacker away from larger defenders back to the pre-anomalies days and more so. From what I have seen, this isn't warping anymore, but near-instantaneous beaming. A gang of interceptors will be able to neutralize a whole 0.0 region as it can control when to accept a fight and when not and bring devastation to miners and ratters alike as their reaction time has been basically eliminated. A small (your standards might vary) roaming gang of 20 to 50 can have someone in all anomalies in a system below 15 seconds. Some will adapt to warp core stabs, some will merely die, but overall I believe we will probably see a population shift back to empire.

With battleship fleets still being out of fashion due to the significant threat from bombers, this change will move the battle fields even further to small, more mobile ships. My corp as one of the more roaming-focused corps in the game will benefit handsomely from the changes as is, but I am not convinced the game as a whole will benefit from the changes as-is.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#285 - 2013-10-07 21:33:07 UTC
Theng Hofses wrote:
The changes to warp speed especially for inties are shifting the balance of power dramatically to the smaller attacker away from larger defenders back to the pre-anomalies days and more so. From what I have seen, this isn't warping anymore, but near-instantaneous beaming. A gang of interceptors will be able to neutralize a whole 0.0 region as it can control when to accept a fight and when not and bring devastation to miners and ratters alike as their reaction time has been basically eliminated. A small (your standards might vary) roaming gang of 20 to 50 can have someone in all anomalies in a system below 15 seconds. Some will adapt to warp core stabs, some will merely die, but overall I believe we will probably see a population shift back to empire.

With battleship fleets still being out of fashion due to the significant threat from bombers, this change will move the battle fields even further to small, more mobile ships. My corp as one of the more roaming-focused corps in the game will benefit handsomely from the changes as is, but I am not convinced the game as a whole will benefit from the changes as-is.


well i would not paint the picture as black as you, but holy .... those interceptors a blitzing around.
they will still die pretty fast though. some smartbombs and/ or a few webs and the ceptor swarm goes "pouff".
but sure is a nerf to afk ratting alone in a 0.0-system ;)
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#286 - 2013-10-07 21:56:57 UTC
seems that crow is bit tight to fit, you need both cpu and powergrid to fit any practical fit.
Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#287 - 2013-10-07 22:38:32 UTC
Stiletto rocks, even a cyno version works great!!
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#288 - 2013-10-07 22:39:18 UTC
Stiletto needs a little more PG, and lock range (probably not the only ceptor that does)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Brib Vogt
Doomheim
#289 - 2013-10-07 22:43:08 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Stiletto needs a little more PG, and lock range (probably not the only ceptor that does)


don't think so. one sig amp and it is fine!
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#290 - 2013-10-07 23:50:23 UTC
The Malediction has been unacceptably nerfed. How am I supposed to fly a ship with asymmetrical hardpoints?
GeMiPaT
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2013-10-08 00:19:25 UTC
Hi CCP,

I will not be that positive about what you want to do about interceptors. I'm ingame since long before they existed and when they first went out, they were Deadly if you didn't had the right fit or weapon to take them down, as an example, I killed some with FOF cruise missiles because back then, the missiles were able to do this and ceptors were so fast that they could escape missiles if you didn't had a web on them. This is history since long ago but there is one thing to remember about that era. The fact that the inty was Deadly and that the weapon we had against them killed them quick as well. So the fight was more about having the guts to attack/tackle a big target and may be die before your friends join the fight.

Why do I state this. Because I believe that giving such improvement to that ship is not healthy for the class nor fair for big ships or active defense of a system/constellation. Basically with the new inty, one could enter in a system, warp away from bubbles, tackle or light cyno and bring hell the the one defending. This is no longer an interceptor, this is much more a special ops ship. And there is a dedicated class for this --> covert ops, Recon and even the T2 BS counterpart that is currently partly broken. The only other example we have in game to avoid interdiction is a specific T3 elements. If this appears in T3 cruisers, then why would have it been invented before on T2 interceptors ???
If you really want to do that, invent T3 ceptors that would make more sense. Having a ship in a hostile system has to cost the offender something. A ceptor is only a few millions... a T3 equivalent would be more representative of the cost it has to enter an ennemy system with some kind of speed/nullifier invulnerability. Please reconsider before giving such a decisive advantage to a small ship class that is way too common ingame. Make people to train for it and be something they need to invest in through a specific carreer path.

Secondly, if you really want those little ships to becomes so big players in game, then you HAVE TO give some modules/ game mechanics to counter balance this. why would a T2 ceptor gang be more effective sneaking in a system than a recon gang or T3 cruiser gang ? Its fine to think about boosting ceptors but not making them special ops kind of ceptors. An interceptor is something capable of intercepting others, and escaping thanks to its speed, nothing else.

Finally, you are giving the new bonus to each of the 2 ceptors of each race. Why don't you just give it to one and not the other ? I mean, let's take the example of minmatar. The stiletto is currently fine, just leave it like that give him some more stats if you wish but not nullifier and give that nullifier advantage to the claw without giving him some love on other stats. The same can be repeated on the 4 races. Force people to use the weaker one if they want to go through nullifier and use the other if they want to do more classic and stronger interceptor.
Atreides 47
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2013-10-08 01:51:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Interceptor time!
This class has been a bit behind the curve for a while, and we're going to be fixing that in a few ways.
The biggest changes for Interceptors in Rubicon will be the warp speed changes and the fact that Interceptors are becoming immune to bubbles.

Do you actually know what you're doing now ?
You are giving to low-cost T2 frigate that everyone can fly a T3 Nullifier subsystem !
Just no.

Long Live the Fighters !

CCP and nerfs - http://i.imgur.com/MejTGfL.jpg

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#293 - 2013-10-08 02:14:49 UTC
I jumped on briefly to look at the warp changes and used the interceptor class to see just how quickly I could go. The first thing I noticed was that all the interceptors have been moved to a 10 AU warp speed. I guess I missed the notes on that somewhere. Combat used to be 9 AU and Fleet was 14 AU. Secondly -

Holy Shitballs. Shocked

Crow:

High:
Malkuth Light Missile Launcher x 3
Mid:
Limited MWD
Regolith MSE
SB II
Warp Disruptor II
Low:
OD II
DC II
MAPC II
Rigs:
Hyperspatial Velocity Maximizer x 2 for giggles.

The rigs give the crow a ~14.4 AU Warp speed. 70 AU warp in roughly 10 seconds. The sudden stop coming out of warp is pretty awesome. In a fight I was MWD'ing in one direction having escaped one of the many faction ships on the test server. (seriously, why? I don't fight Vangels on TQ that often) I hit the 'warp to station' button with 9 seconds left on the aggression timer. I entered warp at 6 seconds left (3.5 AU warp). I arrived in time to be declined docking rights due to my aggression. LolLol Those rigs are going to be a thing.
Packe
Interstellar eXodus
The Initiative.
#294 - 2013-10-08 03:38:37 UTC
Ah, very nice though I am not entirely sure about the interdiction change. I am sure I will grow to love it.

The malediction looks, on paper, like the new fleet tackle of choice. It was always hampered by it's lock range and slot layout, it made it very hard to fit it as a long range tackler (>45km) with the speed to get out of trouble. That is now fixed with the 3/4/4 layout and the +5 to lock range.

I haven't tested it but it looks like it can be fitted to be the fastest of the 4 fleet ceptors. That coupled with its nice low sig and increased agility is going to make it hard to kill. All of the Crow, Ares and the Malediction now can fit missiles, which is gold when coupled with the bonused scram range. The stiletto is stuck with crappy ACs and maybe one unbonused launcher and has gone from being perhaps the most effective fleet tackle to the least effective. The crow is a little fat and slow for its role. The ares is also fat and a poor second choice to the malediction.

Shame about slowing down the warp speed though, I thought that 14 au/s really shone for the fleets. But with the interdiction changes I can understand it.

How about bumping that scram bonus to 7.5% per level. It's still bloody hard to get into the sweet spot to scram an unbonsued ship and stay out of medium neut and scram range, especially now with the nerf to links.

Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#295 - 2013-10-08 03:55:49 UTC
GeMiPaT wrote:
Hi CCP,

I will not be that positive about what you want to do about interceptors.


how do i downvote this guy?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#296 - 2013-10-08 06:16:02 UTC
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2013-10-08 06:17:57 UTC
Packe wrote:
Shame about slowing down the warp speed though, I thought that 14 au/s really shone for the fleets. But with the interdiction changes I can understand it.

How large should solar system be in order to actually make new ceptors traverse it slower under the new warp acceleration mech than old ceptors under old mech would?
4gn1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#298 - 2013-10-08 10:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: 4gn1
I am an interceptor pilot with over 700 sucessfull initial tackles and therfore kills in the last 5 months. I am purely piloting this ships in nullsec day in day out.

I cannot understand the cheer for this changes and I explain it to me that most of the people cheering are not flying this things often - and if - not really correctly.

  • I dont need bubble immunity, a Interceptor is fast enough so a bubble hardly exists. There are even situations where I want to land in a bubble. Now my immunity saves some of the prey from beeing catched. I dont say its complete bullshit but its really not something the interceptor really needed. And nothing to freak out about it. ( As already stated the interdictor really needed this not interceptors. )

  • Warping instant feels like teleporting in some ranges not like flying a spaceship. So basically we will have this frigs now as uncatchable " I-travel-where-I-want" frigates. And interceptors wont catch them too.

  • Taking the example of the ares with no boni-links.

  • After the Patch it will loose both in HP and Speed significantly ( The increase in Speed with a Prop mod due to the mass loss is a blant lie as testet on SiSi )
  • Due to this you cant fit nanos anymore as the Interceptor were already too much of a paper plane and their speed didnt help a **** especially when they need to apply a short point they die way too fast even with all existing piloting tricks which are already incredible hard to pull off.

  • I still need a ionic field rig for sufficient targeting range. So no way to make up for the speed loss.

  • The tracking bonus was actually usefull against drones. The damage "increase" as we have it now on sisi is laughable and doesnt make up for the loss.
  • Combined with the speed loss drones are even more dangerous to us now as they were before.

    All in all this is a unbelievable nerf to this particular ship were we needed a Buff so bad to be able to get competitive again towards ships we need to tackle and hold that got buffed into the sky over the last patches.
    Randy Wray
    Warcrows
    THE OLD SCHOOL
    #299 - 2013-10-08 10:53:26 UTC
    4gn1 wrote:
    I am an interceptor pilot with over 700 sucessfull initial tackles and therfore kills in the last 5 months. I am purely piloting this ships in nullsec day in day out.

    I cannot understand the cheer for this changes and I explain it to me that most of the people cheering are not flying this things often - and if - not really correctly.

  • I dont need bubble immunity, a Interceptor is fast enough so a bubble hardly exists. There are even situations where I want to land in a bubble. Now my immunity saves some of the prey from beeing catched. I dont say its complete bullshit but its really not something the interceptor really needed. And nothing to freak out about it. ( As already stated the interdictor really needed this not interceptors. )

  • Warping instant feels like teleporting in some ranges not like flying a spaceship. So basically we will have this frigs now as uncatchable " I-travel-where-I-want" frigates. And interceptors wont catch them too.

  • Taking the example of the ares with no boni-links.

  • After the Patch it will loose both in HP and Speed significantly ( The increase in Speed with a Prop mod due to the mass loss is a blant lie as testet on SiSi )
  • Due to this you cant fit nanos anymore as the Interceptor were already too much of a paper plane and their speed didnt help a **** especially when they need to apply a short point they die way too fast even with all existing piloting tricks which are already incredible hard to pull off.

  • I still need a ionic field rig for sufficient targeting range. So no way to make up for the speed loss.

  • The tracking bonus was actually usefull against drones. The damage "increase" as we have it now on sisi is laughable and doesnt make up for the loss.
  • Combined with the speed loss drones are even more dangerous to us now as they were before.

    All in all this is a unbelievable nerf to this particular ship were we needed a Buff so bad to be able to get competitive again towards ships we need to tackle and hold that got buffed into the sky over the last patches.


    Fozzie, this guy ^ nailed it.

    Remove this stupid bubble immunity, give all the interceptors another slot. Personally as a long time interceptor pilot I think all the tackle specialized ones should have the ability to fit a nosferatu so that they can get up close and scram tackle ships with neuts. They should all have the ability to fit a fair amount of tank without hurting their mobility or general role on the battlefield. The tackle interceptors should all have bonuses and damage application good enough to be able to handle a wave of warriors. The combat interceptors should in my opinion be similar to AFs in dps potential but exchange a substantially lower tank(about half, kinda what they have now) for speed. The role of the combat ceptors has always been anti-tackle.

    Buffing combat ceptors like I proposed would give a sense of scalability. As long as you don't make them very tanky we shouldn't get the problem that we had with the dramiel back in 2011 since it was pretty much like an interceptor and an AF built into the same ship.

    Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

    twitch.tv/randywray

    Akirei Scytale
    Okami Syndicate
    #300 - 2013-10-08 10:55:53 UTC
    4gn1 wrote:
    I am an interceptor pilot with over 700 sucessfull initial tackles and therfore kills in the last 5 months. I am purely piloting this ships in nullsec day in day out.

    I cannot understand the cheer for this changes and I explain it to me that most of the people cheering are not flying this things often - and if - not really correctly.

  • I dont need bubble immunity, a Interceptor is fast enough so a bubble hardly exists. There are even situations where I want to land in a bubble. Now my immunity saves some of the prey from beeing catched. I dont say its complete bullshit but its really not something the interceptor really needed. And nothing to freak out about it. ( As already stated the interdictor really needed this not interceptors. )

  • Warping instant feels like teleporting in some ranges not like flying a spaceship. So basically we will have this frigs now as uncatchable " I-travel-where-I-want" frigates. And interceptors wont catch them too.

  • Taking the example of the ares with no boni-links.

  • After the Patch it will loose both in HP and Speed significantly ( The increase in Speed with a Prop mod due to the mass loss is a blant lie as testet on SiSi )
  • Due to this you cant fit nanos anymore as the Interceptor were already too much of a paper plane and their speed didnt help a **** especially when they need to apply a short point they die way too fast even with all existing piloting tricks which are already incredible hard to pull off.

  • I still need a ionic field rig for sufficient targeting range. So no way to make up for the speed loss.

  • The tracking bonus was actually usefull against drones. The damage "increase" as we have it now on sisi is laughable and doesnt make up for the loss.
  • Combined with the speed loss drones are even more dangerous to us now as they were before.

    All in all this is a unbelievable nerf to this particular ship were we needed a Buff so bad to be able to get competitive again towards ships we need to tackle and hold that got buffed into the sky over the last patches.


    What are you talking about? Intys were always paper. Whether they're tissue paper or single ply toilet paper doesn't matter when you're dodging bears and wolves. As for "piloting tricks", they're actually very easy to pull off after even casual practice. Also, warp speed was never what made frigates hard to catch - and bubbles will still catch them. Interceptors get to ignore bubbles, but they still die when sneezed at, so it really isn't that big a deal.

    Also, this.