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CCP Shills on the CSM

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#221 - 2013-10-07 20:59:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
I have read much of what has been written here about the situation.

To me this whole situation is a non-issue. It doesn't compare with the T2 Scandal or even the recent problem with the TOS. This is a waste of people's time to even be upset about. CCP rewarded Somer for their contributions to our community.. whether you LIKE them or NOT. CCP rewarded us recently with a whole bunch of new toys like the Gnosis and stuff, and didn't consider my feelings at all whether or not I liked you all getting one. And the Gnosis is actually useful, not a glorified white elephant of a prize like the Ishukone Watch Scorpion.

This is not an issue.
This is not even bad.

Move along and get to some real problems and stop wasting rage or brain power on this.



Confirming that when the local mafia hands out a bunch of turkeys at thanksgiving, it's good they are giving(back) to the community.



??? Yea, it is good. It's totally seperate from what they do that hurts people.

I've actually participated in such events (gangs or course, not mafia), it was usually the start of that group trying to go straight, sometimes it works.



Blood money. Conflict diamonds. Drug proceeds. White washing.

But on the flip side, at least you confirmed the criminality behind it all, that's something.


Not trying to derail, but groups like that usually spend money to do more of the bad things they were doing. Using that money for something good or in an attempt to go straight is a great thing. Some do it just for PR, which makes them just as evil as always.



So to keep it on point, are you using that analogy to show Somer Blink is trying to pay back what they've wrongfully acquired?

Because otherwise, it's just bribery to look the other way.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2013-10-07 21:00:06 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It's almost like Malacanis doesn't believe the same ten or so people repeatedly rage posting and ignoring any counter points actually represents the general opinion of the player base.
In this I have to agree with him. A lot of people are not particularly offended by this give away.
And rather than raging on it, some of us who aren't happy about 'how' it happened are being more constructive in moving on.

This happened months ago, the ships only have a value because collectors have those billions of isk and nothing to spend it on already (10 bil isk is only 10 days for some people, even less for those who tick 250 mil+/hr in null sec anoms with carriers.).

And all this noise over the value of the ships is simply blocking any coherent comments about better ways to be transparent about community give-aways.



Where I see an issue, and draw a line is this, and I'll use an example.

For somer blink, you need to register offsite and can xfer ingame assets. This is bad, since you can control your pool of winners (bans etc).

Now, take Marlona's content contribution of doing her 1,000 rifter event by flying a Nyx to simply watch it burn and encourage ANYONE who wants to show up.

Marlona has no control over who shows up, or shoots, or defends. She merely provided the theatre.

CCP contributed to somer blink, which is a private entity, as opposed to a single person for the public service. Somer Blink contributing to private events is not a community service in the same way if I paid my private golf club dues as contributing to the public on an open street.

Somer Blink is not creating content. Marlona is.

I somehow doubt ccp agrees with you



True, but I have yet to see Somer Blink create TiDi.

/shrug

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Winchester Steele
#223 - 2013-10-07 21:05:07 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
He definitely created content! Maybe he should get an Ishukone Watch Scorpion. I'm sure he doesn't need it, either. I think a live demonstration of the pitfalls of binge drinking does more good for the community than encouraging and exploiting gambling addiction.



I lost all my spacerent playing Somerblink, but thanks to TheMittani I didn't resort to binge drinking! \o/












I just took it out on my wife and kids instead.

...

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#224 - 2013-10-07 21:08:17 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It's almost like Malacanis doesn't believe the same ten or so people repeatedly rage posting and ignoring any counter points actually represents the general opinion of the player base.
In this I have to agree with him. A lot of people are not particularly offended by this give away.
And rather than raging on it, some of us who aren't happy about 'how' it happened are being more constructive in moving on.

This happened months ago, the ships only have a value because collectors have those billions of isk and nothing to spend it on already (10 bil isk is only 10 days for some people, even less for those who tick 250 mil+/hr in null sec anoms with carriers.).

And all this noise over the value of the ships is simply blocking any coherent comments about better ways to be transparent about community give-aways.



Where I see an issue, and draw a line is this, and I'll use an example.

For somer blink, you need to register offsite and can xfer ingame assets. This is bad, since you can control your pool of winners (bans etc).

Now, take Marlona's content contribution of doing her 1,000 rifter event by flying a Nyx to simply watch it burn and encourage ANYONE who wants to show up.

Marlona has no control over who shows up, or shoots, or defends. She merely provided the theatre.

CCP contributed to somer blink, which is a private entity, as opposed to a single person for the public service. Somer Blink contributing to private events is not a community service in the same way if I paid my private golf club dues as contributing to the public on an open street.

Somer Blink is not creating content. Marlona is.

I somehow doubt ccp agrees with you

True, but I have yet to see Somer Blink create TiDi.

/shrug

Remember a lot of people prefer crashes to tidi

somer doesn't even cause crashes

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#225 - 2013-10-07 21:19:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Remember a lot of people prefer crashes to tidi

somer doesn't even cause crashes


The service isn't even in the game!

\o/

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Frying Doom
#226 - 2013-10-07 21:24:50 UTC
I believe this thread has really shown why we no longer need the CSM.

They are meant to be the voice of the players

But once again the players are outraged by CCPs actions and the CSM is acting as the voice of CCP.

They seem to follow the pattern of writing a public communication to CCP on the incident then instantly defending CCP. It is like they originally condemn CCPs actions so they can later point to it and say "Look we did register our disapproval".

Honestly do we really need a voice for the players, that is never actually for the players?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#227 - 2013-10-07 21:29:32 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
I have read much of what has been written here about the situation.

To me this whole situation is a non-issue. It doesn't compare with the T2 Scandal or even the recent problem with the TOS. This is a waste of people's time to even be upset about. CCP rewarded Somer for their contributions to our community.. whether you LIKE them or NOT. CCP rewarded us recently with a whole bunch of new toys like the Gnosis and stuff, and didn't consider my feelings at all whether or not I liked you all getting one. And the Gnosis is actually useful, not a glorified white elephant of a prize like the Ishukone Watch Scorpion.

This is not an issue.
This is not even bad.

Move along and get to some real problems and stop wasting rage or brain power on this.


so you're perfectly fine with CCP giving any one they want, anything they want, at any time they want, without a word?


Firstly, they didn't give SOMER "anything they want, at any time they want, without a word". They gave them a crap T1 Scorp, as a gift, that was in no way gamebreaking in any way. Also, this is Eve, kiddo.

You expecting fairness is laughable.

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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#228 - 2013-10-07 21:32:37 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
I have read much of what has been written here about the situation.

To me this whole situation is a non-issue. It doesn't compare with the T2 Scandal or even the recent problem with the TOS. This is a waste of people's time to even be upset about. CCP rewarded Somer for their contributions to our community.. whether you LIKE them or NOT. CCP rewarded us recently with a whole bunch of new toys like the Gnosis and stuff, and didn't consider my feelings at all whether or not I liked you all getting one. And the Gnosis is actually useful, not a glorified white elephant of a prize like the Ishukone Watch Scorpion.

This is not an issue.
This is not even bad.

Move along and get to some real problems and stop wasting rage or brain power on this.


so you're perfectly fine with CCP giving any one they want, anything they want, at any time they want, without a word?


Firstly, they didn't give SOMER "anything they want, at any time they want, without a word". They gave them a crap T1 Scorp, as a gift, that was in no way gamebreaking in any way. Also, this is Eve, kiddo.

You expecting fairness is laughable.

that crap scorp sells for the build price of a supercarrier Roll
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2013-10-07 21:34:56 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
I have read much of what has been written here about the situation.

To me this whole situation is a non-issue. It doesn't compare with the T2 Scandal or even the recent problem with the TOS. This is a waste of people's time to even be upset about. CCP rewarded Somer for their contributions to our community.. whether you LIKE them or NOT. CCP rewarded us recently with a whole bunch of new toys like the Gnosis and stuff, and didn't consider my feelings at all whether or not I liked you all getting one. And the Gnosis is actually useful, not a glorified white elephant of a prize like the Ishukone Watch Scorpion.

This is not an issue.
This is not even bad.

Move along and get to some real problems and stop wasting rage or brain power on this.


so you're perfectly fine with CCP giving any one they want, anything they want, at any time they want, without a word?


Firstly, they didn't give SOMER "anything they want, at any time they want, without a word". They gave them a crap T1 Scorp, as a gift, that was in no way gamebreaking in any way. Also, this is Eve, kiddo.

You expecting fairness is laughable.

that crap scorp sells for the build price of a supercarrier Roll

It is in no way CCP's fault that someone would buy a scorpion for the price of a supercarrier.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#230 - 2013-10-07 21:35:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I believe this thread has really shown why we no longer need the CSM.

They are meant to be the voice of the players

But once again the players are outraged by CCPs actions and the CSM is acting as the voice of CCP.

They seem to follow the pattern of writing a public communication to CCP on the incident then instantly defending CCP. It is like they originally condemn CCPs actions so they can later point to it and say "Look we did register our disapproval".

Honestly do we really need a voice for the players, that is never actually for the players?

Whether all this is wrong or not aside, it is only two of the csm saying they think the gifts were Ok. Hardly the whole csm!

I actually prefer a csm that will have differences. It's makes sure there's debate.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Kate stark
#231 - 2013-10-07 21:37:38 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I believe this thread has really shown why we no longer need the CSM.

They are meant to be the voice of the players

But once again the players are outraged by CCPs actions and the CSM is acting as the voice of CCP.

They seem to follow the pattern of writing a public communication to CCP on the incident then instantly defending CCP. It is like they originally condemn CCPs actions so they can later point to it and say "Look we did register our disapproval".

Honestly do we really need a voice for the players, that is never actually for the players?

Whether all this is wrong or not aside, it is only two of the csm saying they think the gifts were Ok. Hardly the whole csm!

I actually prefer a csm that will have differences. It's makes sure there's debate.


half of the csm have demonstrated they don't even know why we're upset. they can debate all they want, if they have no idea what they are meant to be debating they are the eve equivalent of a chocolate teapot.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#232 - 2013-10-07 21:38:19 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
I have read much of what has been written here about the situation.

To me this whole situation is a non-issue. It doesn't compare with the T2 Scandal or even the recent problem with the TOS. This is a waste of people's time to even be upset about. CCP rewarded Somer for their contributions to our community.. whether you LIKE them or NOT. CCP rewarded us recently with a whole bunch of new toys like the Gnosis and stuff, and didn't consider my feelings at all whether or not I liked you all getting one. And the Gnosis is actually useful, not a glorified white elephant of a prize like the Ishukone Watch Scorpion.

This is not an issue.
This is not even bad.

Move along and get to some real problems and stop wasting rage or brain power on this.


so you're perfectly fine with CCP giving any one they want, anything they want, at any time they want, without a word?


Firstly, they didn't give SOMER "anything they want, at any time they want, without a word". They gave them a crap T1 Scorp, as a gift, that was in no way gamebreaking in any way. Also, this is Eve, kiddo.

You expecting fairness is laughable.

that crap scorp sells for the build price of a supercarrier Roll

It is in no way CCP's fault that someone would buy a scorpion for the price of a supercarrier.

people were paying that much because they thought there were a fixed number available.

noone knew about the extra 33% supply that CCP magic'ed out of thin air for somer

cause somer told everyone to keep it a secret so that they could maximize their profits Roll
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#233 - 2013-10-07 21:40:08 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
samualvimes wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I believe this thread has really shown why we no longer need the CSM.

They are meant to be the voice of the players

But once again the players are outraged by CCPs actions and the CSM is acting as the voice of CCP.

They seem to follow the pattern of writing a public communication to CCP on the incident then instantly defending CCP. It is like they originally condemn CCPs actions so they can later point to it and say "Look we did register our disapproval".

Honestly do we really need a voice for the players, that is never actually for the players?

Whether all this is wrong or not aside, it is only two of the csm saying they think the gifts were Ok. Hardly the whole csm!
I actually prefer a csm that will have differences. It's makes sure there's debate.

half of the csm have demonstrated they don't even know why we're upset. they can debate all they want, if they have no idea what they are meant to be debating they are the eve equivalent of a chocolate teapot.

They can debate about why we're all worked up like morons.

1 trit Roll

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2013-10-07 21:41:54 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
samualvimes wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I believe this thread has really shown why we no longer need the CSM.

They are meant to be the voice of the players

But once again the players are outraged by CCPs actions and the CSM is acting as the voice of CCP.

They seem to follow the pattern of writing a public communication to CCP on the incident then instantly defending CCP. It is like they originally condemn CCPs actions so they can later point to it and say "Look we did register our disapproval".

Honestly do we really need a voice for the players, that is never actually for the players?

Whether all this is wrong or not aside, it is only two of the csm saying they think the gifts were Ok. Hardly the whole csm!

I actually prefer a csm that will have differences. It's makes sure there's debate.


half of the csm have demonstrated they don't even know why we're upset. they can debate all they want, if they have no idea what they are meant to be debating they are the eve equivalent of a chocolate teapot.

That's just another way of saying they don't agree with the reasoning presented. I seriously doubt that they lack the ability to comprehend the arguments put forth, but understanding alone doesn't put weight to the argument in front of the listener. Similarly I have little doubt that Malc himself feels many have no idea why they are fine with it in similar fashion given his attempts at explaining and the tone of his departure from the thread.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2013-10-07 21:45:01 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:

people were paying that much because they thought there were a fixed number available.

noone knew about the extra 33% supply that CCP magic'ed out of thin air for somer

cause somer told everyone to keep it a secret so that they could maximize their profits Roll

That makes the issue the lack of transparency and a continuation of the issue of the re-release of items understood to be unique (whether CCP intended/stated or not). The gifting of the ships themselves becomes a non-issue for that reasoning.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2013-10-07 21:47:53 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
I have read much of what has been written here about the situation.

To me this whole situation is a non-issue. It doesn't compare with the T2 Scandal or even the recent problem with the TOS. This is a waste of people's time to even be upset about. CCP rewarded Somer for their contributions to our community.. whether you LIKE them or NOT. CCP rewarded us recently with a whole bunch of new toys like the Gnosis and stuff, and didn't consider my feelings at all whether or not I liked you all getting one. And the Gnosis is actually useful, not a glorified white elephant of a prize like the Ishukone Watch Scorpion.

This is not an issue.
This is not even bad.

Move along and get to some real problems and stop wasting rage or brain power on this.


so you're perfectly fine with CCP giving any one they want, anything they want, at any time they want, without a word?


Firstly, they didn't give SOMER "anything they want, at any time they want, without a word". They gave them a crap T1 Scorp, as a gift, that was in no way gamebreaking in any way. Also, this is Eve, kiddo.

You expecting fairness is laughable.

that crap scorp sells for the build price of a supercarrier Roll

It is in no way CCP's fault that someone would buy a scorpion for the price of a supercarrier.


Minus the ability to produce them you mean.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Kate stark
#237 - 2013-10-07 21:48:43 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

They can debate about why we're all worked up like morons.

1 trit Roll

i know right, how dare we ask for fairness and transparency?

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#238 - 2013-10-07 21:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Money Makin Mitch
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:

people were paying that much because they thought there were a fixed number available.

noone knew about the extra 33% supply that CCP magic'ed out of thin air for somer

cause somer told everyone to keep it a secret so that they could maximize their profits Roll

That makes the issue the lack of transparency and a continuation of the issue of the re-release of items understood to be unique (whether CCP intended/stated or not). The gifting of the ships themselves becomes a non-issue for that reasoning.


the gifting is still very much an issue. the devs should not be giving in-game assets to anybody, especially 'just because', which is essentially what this was. the lack of transparency and insider trading just makes it even worse. and yes, this was basically an isk injection... why else would you give 30 of a 'limited' ship on the downlow to a group if not for them to sell them? somer seems to have understood this perfectly, hence asking for the sales to be done slowly and quietly.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#239 - 2013-10-07 21:54:39 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:

people were paying that much because they thought there were a fixed number available.

noone knew about the extra 33% supply that CCP magic'ed out of thin air for somer

cause somer told everyone to keep it a secret so that they could maximize their profits Roll

That makes the issue the lack of transparency and a continuation of the issue of the re-release of items understood to be unique (whether CCP intended/stated or not). The gifting of the ships themselves becomes a non-issue for that reasoning.

CCP can't fix stupid. They had announced more would be given out as they were using the ship for give aways. Somer were not the first group to get this also, if you look through the posts in the larger thread, several other groups also had received them, so there are more than 111 out there also.
Anyone believing only 81 existed was being stupid/greedy.

Now.... the secrecy around it, that's a different issue. Totally independent of the value of the gift. And something worth discussing is a better way to be open about rewarding community groups who have been featured. Personally I think a lottery draw from those they have done a dev blog on. With a lottery occurring about every 2 or 3 community blogs (So the potential pool gets larger, not smaller) is a decent mechanic.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2013-10-07 21:55:45 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Minus the ability to produce them you mean.

The only thing determined by the lack of production is that the ship will have an increased price compared to it's normal counterpart. The extent of the price increase is a function of how many people want it and what amount of isk they are willing to throw at it. CCP has no control over the latter 2 factors.