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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Kamaria Ray Kashuken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1241 - 2013-10-07 14:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamaria Ray Kashuken
Tepalica wrote:

A solution here that I would propose is to adopt the Armageddon's neut range bonus as a flat 100% role bonus or special ability as a replacement to the laser cap usage bonus, while having 4 turret AND 4 launcher hardpoints at our disposal aswell. This would allow players to fit whatever turrets or launchers they feel like fitting to max the dps output of the ship while allowing them to replace those guns/launchers with neuts/vamps for some extra PvP utility while it wouldn't be overpowered in my opinion (the ship would seem more like a bigger, nastier version of the Dragoon destroyer, rather than a direct rival to the Curse)
I know this proposition would not make players want to fit lasers any more than they would anyway - as a comparison, Armageddon fits, if not used as dedicated neuting platforms, never involve lasers anyway, it's always missiles or projectiles - and I believe that SoE technology should not be tied to lasers anyway because they already have the armor resistance bonus as an Amarr trait in their design.


I think you're missing the point, here. All PVP potential aside, these ships are PVE exploration ships. They're designed with durability and longevity in mind; huge drone and cargo capacities, and a minor inclination to use Lasers (t1 crystals never break, and crystals last longer than other types of ammo per m^3).

Neut bonuses have no business being on these ships, because of that. Missile bonuses also have no business being on a Amarr/Gallente hybrid.

Not disagreeing that the bonus doesn't make lasers as appealing as other systems, though.

Dav Varan wrote:
Astero

Do something a bit different here.
4high + 2
2 med - 2
4 low

weeken the pvp combat ability by neutering the mids but give it better expo by enabling turrets / cloak / probe

same with thte cruiser

+1 high for -1 mid


There isn't a single covops frigate without at least 4 mid slots, and for good reason. You want one analyser, a prop mod and a cargo scanner at least. Then there are other astrometric modules, the other analyser, god help you if you're shield tanked...

No need to be greedy about the damage; a full light flight is already more than any other covops frigate with turrets and drones combined. You're meant to choose between the extra damage or the cloak and probe. 2 highslots is the bare minimum, sure, but it has other things going for it.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1242 - 2013-10-07 14:35:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Quote:
How's this for better stats?


Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210


Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550


What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Requoting this because it got very positive feedback.

The Frigates does not need +10 either. A covert ops frigate cant solo a 3/10 complex.


You have previously been caught spamming with multiple identities on this very issue.
Only your identities think this.Will you stop trying to trick CCP RISE INTO BELIEVING THIS IS A WIDELY HELD POSITION.
This user has been reported for using multiple identities to spam this thread. The accounts have posted repeatedly with the intention of giving the impression that a number of people hold a similar view.This has been passed to CCP for action.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1243 - 2013-10-07 14:38:02 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
You have previously been caught spamming with multiple identities on this very issue.
Only your identities think this.Will you stop trying to trick CCP RISE INTO BELIEVING THIS IS A WIDELY HELD POSITION.
This user has been reported for using multiple identities to spam this thread. The accounts have posted repeatedly with the intention of giving the impression that a number of people hold a similar view.This has been passed to CCP for action.

You are becoming boring...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1244 - 2013-10-07 14:39:30 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
You have previously been caught spamming with multiple identities on this very issue.
Only your identities think this.Will you stop trying to trick CCP RISE INTO BELIEVING THIS IS A WIDELY HELD POSITION.
This user has been reported for using multiple identities to spam this thread. The accounts have posted repeatedly with the intention of giving the impression that a number of people hold a similar view.This has been passed to CCP for action.

You are becoming boring...

I blocked him a while back, unless some one quotes him, I have no idea what he says.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1245 - 2013-10-07 14:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
You have previously been caught spamming with multiple identities on this very issue.
Only your identities think this.Will you stop trying to trick CCP RISE INTO BELIEVING THIS IS A WIDELY HELD POSITION.
This user has been reported for using multiple identities to spam this thread. The accounts have posted repeatedly with the intention of giving the impression that a number of people hold a similar view.This has been passed to CCP for action.

You are becoming boring...

Please note this is the other identified spamming account,

Scamming deception and trickery are accepted in game, this however is a real world forum, misrepresentation is a serious issue, and trying to deceptively influence a CCP developer is unacceptable.

This user has been reported for using multiple identities to spam this thread. The accounts have posted repeatedly with the intention of giving the impression that a number of people hold a similar view.This has been passed to CCP for action.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Tepalica
ACME-CORP
#1246 - 2013-10-07 15:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tepalica
Quote:
I think you're missing the point, here. All PVP potential aside, these ships are PVE exploration ships. They're designed with durability and longevity in mind; huge drone and cargo capacities, and a minor inclination to use Lasers (t1 crystals never break, and crystals last longer than other types of ammo per m^3).

Neut bonuses have no business being on these ships, because of that. Missile bonuses also have no business being on a Amarr/Gallente hybrid.


Actually, the Stratios is more of a PvP ship than an exploration one - it's tough, it has significant dps and utility via drones and most importantly, the ability to be bridged by black ops ships - Stratios will be widely used for black ops hotdrops and plenty of other PvP situations due to it's combat capabilities. The exploration part of it's bonuses, in my opinion, hardly make it a primarily PvE platform, especially since there are much much better choices for that out there.

As far as missiles are concerned, it seems you just skimmed my post, I never said anything about missile bonuses - my idea was just to change the ship in a way that would not force us to fit lasers as they are just unbonused fitting nightmares at the moment on the Stratios hull, and allow players to choose if they want more "dakka" on their ship or more utility in the form of range bonused neuts/vamps, and these neuts/vamps would do quite well in the event if you, as an exploration ship, get attacked which was actually what CCP people were saying about them, being exploration ships with "teeth".

So yes, missiles don't really have much place on amarr/gallente ships, but missiles would not be the focus of these changes I proposed, they would just be an option just like they are on Arbitrator, Prophecy, Armageddon, Celestis hulls aswell as anywhere else where there are missile hardpoints but without missile bonuses on the hull.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1247 - 2013-10-07 16:31:20 UTC
Kamaria Ray Kashuken wrote:


I think you're missing the point, here. All PVP potential aside, these ships are PVE exploration ships. They're designed with durability and longevity in mind; huge drone and cargo capacities, and a minor inclination to use Lasers (t1 crystals never break, and crystals last longer than other types of ammo per m^3).
.



Speak for yourself, I can fly cov-ops a lot cheaper and they are currently better at the role for exploration. I don't know what people's idea of a high end plex is but there is no way in hell you are running one of these over a 4/10 site. I guess you could use the cruiser on gas professional sites, it would be good for that. But if you think that cruiser isn't a PvP **** I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1248 - 2013-10-07 17:02:37 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Kamaria Ray Kashuken wrote:


I think you're missing the point, here. All PVP potential aside, these ships are PVE exploration ships. They're designed with durability and longevity in mind; huge drone and cargo capacities, and a minor inclination to use Lasers (t1 crystals never break, and crystals last longer than other types of ammo per m^3).
.



Speak for yourself, I can fly cov-ops a lot cheaper and they are currently better at the role for exploration. I don't know what people's idea of a high end plex is but there is no way in hell you are running one of these over a 4/10 site. I guess you could use the cruiser on gas professional sites, it would be good for that. But if you think that cruiser isn't a PvP **** I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.


I think both of you are absolutely correct, as it stands the ships are crippled as exploration ships, no one in their right mind
Would pick either of these ships over a covert ops for exploration,even though there are many good features, that is why there is such strong support for matching virus strength +10 ,there has been a spammer using multiple accounts to undermine this for whatever reason.but the concencus is it is currently incapable of performing an exploration role.
If fixed it will be an awesome exploration ship.
As for PvP it has excelient capabilities, there are some requests to focus the abilities more to PvE than PvP but still leaving it a capable ship. Ccp rise wishes the cruiser to be capable and has been tested on DED 6 sites. Seems a good level if balancing retains that and possibly higher levels in a group.
There are lots of good ideas around these points and I look forward to him looking at the ship.
It can be an awesome exploration ship and a lot more.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1249 - 2013-10-07 17:04:41 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Kamaria Ray Kashuken wrote:


I think you're missing the point, here. All PVP potential aside, these ships are PVE exploration ships. They're designed with durability and longevity in mind; huge drone and cargo capacities, and a minor inclination to use Lasers (t1 crystals never break, and crystals last longer than other types of ammo per m^3).
.



Speak for yourself, I can fly cov-ops a lot cheaper and they are currently better at the role for exploration. I don't know what people's idea of a high end plex is but there is no way in hell you are running one of these over a 4/10 site. I guess you could use the cruiser on gas professional sites, it would be good for that. But if you think that cruiser isn't a PvP **** I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

The Frigate will handle all DED sites up to 3/10 with no problems and the Cruiser is supposed to be able to handle up to 6/10 complexes.

I will never think of using a covert ops frigate for exploration again.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1250 - 2013-10-07 17:07:14 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Kamaria Ray Kashuken wrote:


I think you're missing the point, here. All PVP potential aside, these ships are PVE exploration ships. They're designed with durability and longevity in mind; huge drone and cargo capacities, and a minor inclination to use Lasers (t1 crystals never break, and crystals last longer than other types of ammo per m^3).
.



Speak for yourself, I can fly cov-ops a lot cheaper and they are currently better at the role for exploration. I don't know what people's idea of a high end plex is but there is no way in hell you are running one of these over a 4/10 site. I guess you could use the cruiser on gas professional sites, it would be good for that. But if you think that cruiser isn't a PvP **** I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.


Actually, CCP Rise said in his initial post that he was running 6/10's with the cruiser. That thing is a sneaky Nexor on...steroids...with a better model. Although you are right about its pvp ability. Blops with sentry support ftw
Ginger Barbarella
#1251 - 2013-10-07 17:14:11 UTC
CovOps Ishtar. Nuff said. Lol

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
ApolloF117 HUN
The All-Seeing Eye
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#1252 - 2013-10-07 17:38:02 UTC
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1253 - 2013-10-07 17:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
ApolloF117 HUN wrote:
and whats is this Nestor?
1. http://kepfeltoltes.hu/131007/2013.10.07.17.24.30_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png
2. http://kepfeltoltes.hu/131007/2013.10.07.17.24.13_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png
3. http://kepfeltoltes.hu/131007/2013.10.07.17.24.34_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

Interesting, looks like a placeholder for the stratios,.. Update read further battleship with caldari Gallente skills???.... however the text is really interesting, I posted this earlier when I noticed some text on the stratios drawing, I'll post it again as it was probably before many came on, and may have been missed in this massive thread
#1227Posted: 2013.10.07 09:51 | Report | Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I notice on the picture posted by CCP rescue deployable units.?
What role do you think these can have, definitely humanitarian.
Possibly instawarp tractor with projectable shield for rescuing pods during a battle before they can be podded? Or can they eject your pod if destroyed in a secure protection device?.

If the former Could make one of these in a fleet really helpful?

Looking closer I now also see sisters safety units,

If this is actually meant to be something and not just the artworks departments placeholders how would this be for a role?
Sisters ship warps close into a battlefield .. Big blob fight going on.. Launches sisters safety units .. Captures all pods as the parents ships are destroyed, brings them in, = pods to protect and ransom! No agression timer, you are doing a good deed... sort of.....Cant kill it, you will kill your own fleets pods! Or.....recycle the pods if they dont pay, for implants / implant components.Or if you are in hisec drop them in the nearest wormhole to rot ... For the lutz imagine the tears, fury, when they try and try and call for help, and fail to get out and have to decide to kill themselves to get home.The desperate search through wh space for your colleague/friend, It could take them days or weeks to get that desperate.Or the feeling of success when they do escape.

Now that's emergent gameplay.

SOE Humanitarian..... When it suits us!

ps just to be nasty you could drop off the sisters safety unit in the middle of a classV sleeper spawn

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1254 - 2013-10-07 18:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. renders my Ishtar obsolete. u guys think it will be very expensive? hopefully not more than 200mill.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1255 - 2013-10-07 18:27:29 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. may be nice alternative to Ishtar.

The frigate can run combat sites, your Helios cannot.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1256 - 2013-10-07 18:28:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. may be nice alternative to Ishtar.

The frigate can run combat sites, your Helios cannot.


and kill what? there's no drone damage bonus.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1257 - 2013-10-07 18:29:59 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. may be nice alternative to Ishtar.

The frigate can run combat sites, your Helios cannot.


and kill what? there's no drone damage bonus.

a turret-less Tristan can clear sites just fine.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1258 - 2013-10-07 18:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Hungry Eyes wrote:
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. renders my Ishtar obsolete. u guys think it will be very expensive? hopefully not more than 200mill.


A request has been made to increase the Virus strength on the exploration vessels to + 10 CCP RISE saId in an earlier reply that he would look at it and discuss it with the balance team.

As it stands the ships make no sense as exploration vessels.


Asteros and stratios CCP Make these ships Exploration ships, +10 Virus strength please.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1259 - 2013-10-07 18:33:12 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. renders my Ishtar obsolete. u guys think it will be very expensive? hopefully not more than 200mill.


Going by current stats - 3 flights of light drones, a LOT faster aligning which is always useful in unfriendly space, Will depend a bit on what you do though as the decrease in probing ability especially in regards to combat probes is a pretty big downside.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1260 - 2013-10-07 18:41:17 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
can anyone explain to me why i should be flying that frigate instead of my Helios?

cruiser looks fun. renders my Ishtar obsolete. u guys think it will be very expensive? hopefully not more than 200mill.


Going by current stats - 3 flights of light drones, a LOT faster aligning which is always useful in unfriendly space, Will depend a bit on what you do though as the decrease in probing ability especially in regards to combat probes is a pretty big downside.



You don't need to probe the ship, probe the sites and /cloak wait for them to come, receive them with fire while they're hacking.

The fact these ships get some teeth is good, if these ships can be turned in to full better pvp ships than those specialized for then it's not good.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne