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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1201 - 2013-10-06 22:53:11 UTC
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.

If your views were accurate, this ship would be op.. but it's not, this ship can't just decloak and blap anything.

And that's before the simple idea that a smartbomb renders this ship DPSless.. And that drones aren't instant applied DPS like turrets.


Someone said earlier this would take on any current Pirate cruiser ? HA.. It's not gonna break a Gila. Vigilant will destroy it without a sweat. It won't be able to keep up to a Cynabal.. and who cares about an Ashimmu lol.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1202 - 2013-10-06 23:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Sentinel Smith wrote:
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.

If your views were accurate, this ship would be op.. but it's not, this ship can't just decloak and blap anything.

And that's before the simple idea that a smartbomb renders this ship DPSless.. And that drones aren't instant applied DPS like turrets.


Someone said earlier this would take on any current Pirate cruiser ? HA.. It's not gonna break a Gila. Vigilant will destroy it without a sweat. It won't be able to keep up to a Cynabal.. and who cares about an Ashimmu lol.


No they don't. Covops cloak recalibration is 10 seconds, -1 second per rank in Cloaking. So 6 seconds. It's the same for every ship that fits a covops cloak, including this one. What this ship doesn't have is a reduction in covops cloak CPU use.

Gila? You own the **** out of a Gila. Your ship has the same bonuses they do except you have 300 more base PG, 50 more base CPU, and an extra hardpoint.

Also fit a tracking disruptor and you will easily own the **** out of any Cynabal/Vigilant/Vagabond/Proteus.
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1203 - 2013-10-06 23:52:05 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.


6 seconds with covops trained to IV, or 5s at lev V.

Or zero, if you decloak and drop drones, and assist them to someone else.....
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1204 - 2013-10-07 00:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
Sentinel Smith wrote:
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.


6 seconds with covops trained to IV, or 5s at lev V.

Or zero, if you decloak and drop drones, and assist them to someone else.....



Good tip

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Reth Alithes
The Weasel Den
#1205 - 2013-10-07 00:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Reth Alithes
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
MonkeyMagic Thiesant wrote:
Sentinel Smith wrote:
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.


6 seconds with covops trained to IV, or 5s at lev V.

Or zero, if you decloak and drop drones, and assist them to someone else.....



Good tip

If these ships don't cost an insane amount of money (and if the current number of missioners in Osmon is any indication, they won't) I could very easily see some fleets of these ships. Full (or mostly full) tank in the lows, 2 omnis, 2 sensor damps, 1 mwd for mids, drone control range/RRs in the highs. Cloaky sentry gangs that can turn on a dime and spidertank if need be. One Sebo'd Cloaky Loki to do the target pewing.
Freako X
Doom Inc
#1206 - 2013-10-07 01:27:02 UTC
Commander A9 wrote:
Sisters of EVE are an international humanitarian science-and-religion organization, according to their info panel.

I like the idea of exploration bonuses, but is there any plan to incorporate some kind of remote boosting or repair feature in some capacity? Like a bonus to repair modules or drones or support activity?


I mentioned some bonus replacements to support the SoE humanitarian theme ... but it was not well received: On this page.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#1207 - 2013-10-07 01:40:42 UTC
reducing it to 100mbit bandwidth will be a slap in the face. The ship will need 125mbit to complete high-end complexes in reasonable amounts of time.

It also needs its covops cloak to be a reasonable choice for the true-solo explorer.

CCP has avoided giving cloaky-warpers huge dps to avoid breaking the game, but this ship NEEDS both of those attributes. If potential dps needs to be toned down, it should be taken from the turrets rather than removing bandwidth. If the DPS it does have is too much to be balanced on a covops cruiser, then it should absolutely get a large role-penalty to recalibration delay, making it worthless as an ambush craft.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1208 - 2013-10-07 01:43:16 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Remove the ******* stupid covert ops thing from these ships and make them some other than a group of overpowered twatmobiles.

The Stratios could hold his own in a fight against ANY other pirate cruiser.. (Decimating most in fact) AND it has a cloak? I don't understand the logic behind giving a supposedly more rounded pirate ship the specialization bonus of a recon, its really weird.
The cloak is an integral part of exploration, but was suggested to give them the marauder treatment as to nerf there PVP a bit while not ruining there PVE side.


Well i don't run around using ECM so that won't help me much when i get blobbed by cloaky pirate cruisers in a plex >_<

Also i just hate all things that can warp while cloaked, to many thing immune to pvp in this game.

The only things that are "immune" to PVP are cloaky nullified T3s or ships that are docked in station. and even then cloaky nullified T3 ships get blown up a lot still too.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1209 - 2013-10-07 04:30:15 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Sentinel Smith wrote:
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.

If your views were accurate, this ship would be op.. but it's not, this ship can't just decloak and blap anything.

And that's before the simple idea that a smartbomb renders this ship DPSless.. And that drones aren't instant applied DPS like turrets.


Someone said earlier this would take on any current Pirate cruiser ? HA.. It's not gonna break a Gila. Vigilant will destroy it without a sweat. It won't be able to keep up to a Cynabal.. and who cares about an Ashimmu lol.


No they don't. Covops cloak recalibration is 10 seconds, -1 second per rank in Cloaking. So 6 seconds. It's the same for every ship that fits a covops cloak, including this one. What this ship doesn't have is a reduction in covops cloak CPU use.

Gila? You own the **** out of a Gila. Your ship has the same bonuses they do except you have 300 more base PG, 50 more base CPU, and an extra hardpoint.

Also fit a tracking disruptor and you will easily own the **** out of any Cynabal/Vigilant/Vagabond/Proteus.

It doesn't have the same bonus.. Read the info.

It has a bonus to drone Hitpoints (HP) not damage. Gila has both.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1210 - 2013-10-07 06:41:33 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Sentinel Smith wrote:
So many people forget.. Having a CovOps cloak does not mean you can just deloak and lock. T2 Covops have a bonus for locktime.. This ship does no.. When you decloak you are looking at 10 + actual locktime before you can do anything. Half the ships it will face can warp or speed off before that time is up, the other half have 10 seconds or so to apply their own damage instantly.

If your views were accurate, this ship would be op.. but it's not, this ship can't just decloak and blap anything.

And that's before the simple idea that a smartbomb renders this ship DPSless.. And that drones aren't instant applied DPS like turrets.


Someone said earlier this would take on any current Pirate cruiser ? HA.. It's not gonna break a Gila. Vigilant will destroy it without a sweat. It won't be able to keep up to a Cynabal.. and who cares about an Ashimmu lol.


No they don't. Covops cloak recalibration is 10 seconds, -1 second per rank in Cloaking. So 6 seconds. It's the same for every ship that fits a covops cloak, including this one. What this ship doesn't have is a reduction in covops cloak CPU use.

Gila? You own the **** out of a Gila. Your ship has the same bonuses they do except you have 300 more base PG, 50 more base CPU, and an extra hardpoint.

Also fit a tracking disruptor and you will easily own the **** out of any Cynabal/Vigilant/Vagabond/Proteus.

It doesn't have the same bonus.. Read the info.

It has a bonus to drone Hitpoints (HP) not damage. Gila has both.


The cruiser has a damage bonus to drones. Seriously, did you not bother to read any of the thread or did you just decide every other poster claiming 900+ DPS was hallucinating?
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1211 - 2013-10-07 06:51:52 UTC
I notice on the picture posted by CCP rescue deployable units.?
What role do you think these can have, definitely humanitarian.
Possibly instawarp tractor with projectable shield for rescuing pods during a battle before they can be podded? Or can they eject your pod if destroyed in a secure protection device?.

If the former Could make one of these in a fleet really helpful?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1212 - 2013-10-07 07:13:21 UTC
5 bonused large drones and 4 unbonused turrets on the Stratios is basically the same damage output as the Ishtar, but the Stratios has nearly 50% more HP and the resists aren't much lower if you have Amarr Cruiser trained to 5. The Stratios also has much higher agility than the Ishtar, a bigger drone bay, and other stats a close match with the Ishtar, and with the same slot layout. Powergrid and CPU are higher on the Stratios, though that can be for fitting lasers and cloaking devices/expanded probe launchers.

All in all, it looks like the Stratios if left unchanged may usurp the Ishtar and become a superior Heavy Assault Ship for both hit-and-run tactics as well as toe-to-toe action. I would consider reducing the Stratios' drone bandwidth to 50mbit/sec. That's plenty of bandwidth for blowing up anom rats, especially with the turrets you may also have fit. It also leaves a lot more room for alternate drone types when a pilot doesn't feel obligated to put large drones in. But with a bit lower damage output than other cruisers, it will be decent in combat but not something you'd normally use as an ambush craft.

Food for thought.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1213 - 2013-10-07 07:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
5 bonused large drones and 4 unbonused turrets on the Stratios is basically the same damage output as the Ishtar, but the Stratios has nearly 50% more HP and the resists aren't much lower if you have Amarr Cruiser trained to 5. The Stratios also has much higher agility than the Ishtar, a bigger drone bay, and other stats a close match with the Ishtar, and with the same slot layout. Powergrid and CPU are higher on the Stratios, though that can be for fitting lasers and cloaking devices/expanded probe launchers.

All in all, it looks like the Stratios if left unchanged may usurp the Ishtar and become a superior Heavy Assault Ship for both hit-and-run tactics as well as toe-to-toe action. I would consider reducing the Stratios' drone bandwidth to 50mbit/sec. That's plenty of bandwidth for blowing up anom rats, especially with the turrets you may also have fit. It also leaves a lot more room for alternate drone types when a pilot doesn't feel obligated to put large drones in. But with a bit lower damage output than other cruisers, it will be decent in combat but not something you'd normally use as an ambush craft.

Food for thought.

I will leave this for the fitting specialists to discuss the merits of the ishtar vs stratios numbers but..
50 mb bandwidth is absurd. If you are talking belt rats in hisec sure but you would be a smoking wreck in anything of note.l would hate to see how many seconds it would last in a wormhole, wouldn't last long enough to clear any site other than possibly, only possibly a C1.
Unless you can quickly reduce the damage you are receiving by blowing them up you will not last long even in a battleship.c3 and above, webbed ,warp disabled, neuted, and overwhelmed, and no way to kill them to reduce the damage, will not end well.
This ship would be nerfed out of existance. Just 2 sentries..... Not a good idea.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1214 - 2013-10-07 07:34:36 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
No they don't. Covops cloak recalibration is 10 seconds, -1 second per rank in Cloaking. So 6 seconds. It's the same for every ship that fits a covops cloak, including this one. What this ship doesn't have is a reduction in covops cloak CPU use.

Gila? You own the **** out of a Gila. Your ship has the same bonuses they do except you have 300 more base PG, 50 more base CPU, and an extra hardpoint.

Also fit a tracking disruptor and you will easily own the **** out of any Cynabal/Vigilant/Vagabond/Proteus.

You forgot base hp. Gila have 50% more base hp the the Stratios ; same goes for all other pirate ships, and that actually matter. The Stratios have the base hp of a T1 cruiser, and their resist.

The Proteus can also have a longer scram range which is a lot more useful to get in range. The heavy drones will also take forever to go to anywhere past 10km. The effective range of Ogres is no more than 5km in actual EVE.

As for the targeting delay, this is not irrelevant either : considering the speed of the Stratios, and moreover with a 1600mm plate, almost all cruisers will be faster than it. The only things you will catch are things which want to be caught or afk people. In fact, this recalibration time work completely against you : unless the target panic in fear she will use this time to tackle you and get in range. In almost all situations, you discard the initiative because of this delay ; and if you don't use the cloak, you're less than any drone cruiser but the Vexor (T1 one) and Arbitrator.

And finaly, if you are more than one, sentries should be better...

What puzzle me is that in any other circumstances anyone daring to say heavy drones are OP would never have been taken seriously.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1215 - 2013-10-07 07:43:39 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
5 bonused large drones and 4 unbonused turrets on the Stratios is basically the same damage output as the Ishtar, but the Stratios has nearly 50% more HP and the resists aren't much lower if you have Amarr Cruiser trained to 5. The Stratios also has much higher agility than the Ishtar, a bigger drone bay, and other stats a close match with the Ishtar, and with the same slot layout. Powergrid and CPU are higher on the Stratios, though that can be for fitting lasers and cloaking devices/expanded probe launchers.

All in all, it looks like the Stratios if left unchanged may usurp the Ishtar and become a superior Heavy Assault Ship for both hit-and-run tactics as well as toe-to-toe action. I would consider reducing the Stratios' drone bandwidth to 50mbit/sec. That's plenty of bandwidth for blowing up anom rats, especially with the turrets you may also have fit. It also leaves a lot more room for alternate drone types when a pilot doesn't feel obligated to put large drones in. But with a bit lower damage output than other cruisers, it will be decent in combat but not something you'd normally use as an ambush craft.

Food for thought.

Man, have you EVER fit an Ishtar before saying such insanity ?!! The Ishtar have more bonus to drones, the same utility, and the resist make for a VERY HUGE difference for tanking. An Ishtar would eat this Stratios without breaking a sweat.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#1216 - 2013-10-07 07:44:23 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
The Stratios have the base hp of a T1 cruiser, and their resist.

If you ignore the resist bonus, sure.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1217 - 2013-10-07 07:45:02 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
The Stratios have the base hp of a T1 cruiser, and their resist.

If you ignore the resist bonus, sure.

Like a Maller you mean ?
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#1218 - 2013-10-07 07:49:59 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
The Stratios have the base hp of a T1 cruiser, and their resist.

If you ignore the resist bonus, sure.

Like a Maller you mean ?

You're not helping your point by saying that.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1219 - 2013-10-07 08:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
The Stratios have the base hp of a T1 cruiser, and their resist.

If you ignore the resist bonus, sure.

Like a Maller you mean ?

You're not helping your point by saying that.

T2 resist are largely stronger than 4% resist bonus. People on the marauder thread at least know that.

PS : or are you implying that the Maller have more tank than T2 ships ? Maller is tough, but come on...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1220 - 2013-10-07 08:27:53 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Come on people, please lets make reasonable suggestions, be careful what you wish for you might get it,
There is so much scaremongering on this thread we will be lucky to get even the frigate, unless Ccp rise can somehow cut through the noise.
In itself it is a beautiful explorer ship with a great pve ability and an effective combat ability, if you choose you can give up loads of utility and survivability and make it a death machine, is it reasonable to do so? No is it cost effective to do so? No. A request was made to ccp rise to see if he could ensure the excesses could be dealt with.What more needs to be said on that.
If you have a reasonable suggestion based on considered thought please put forward your suggestions, it is possible it had not been thought of before and will lead to a better ship we can all enjoy.
If it is either OMG!! Kill death spawn machine nurf nurf nerf. Or waah my ship not good now nerf nerf nerf. Keep your thoughts to yourself. You help no one.it just fills the thread with dross.
People also can have bad ideas they believe in , a simple "bad idea" and a reason is sufficient, we don't need 10 pages of personal you stupid me not.

Hopefully ccp rise can find something helpful in this mega thread.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE