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CCP Shills on the CSM

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Laserak
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-10-07 06:20:50 UTC
Where there's smoke, there's fire ~Sun Tzu
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-10-07 06:30:15 UTC
When there's stink, I farted - Me
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#63 - 2013-10-07 06:30:46 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
IF we get confirmation that CCP have only ever given rare and unique ships to SOMER, either as thank yous or for giveaways (And, we know the second case is not unique to SOMER), then Ripard might have white knighted incorrectly.

As it stands, we are waiting for CCP to make a statement, but, akin to much yelling IRL, the facts and a good story are never good friends.

ccp has a history of hey have a giveaway

this makes it perfectly fine

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-10-07 06:31:09 UTC
So much for CSM8

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#65 - 2013-10-07 06:34:42 UTC
welped a csm, was this a reimbursable PR op?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Prince Kobol
#66 - 2013-10-07 06:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
A CSM member is supposed to represent his voters and not act on his own opinions.

I support this thread.


Kind off.

The CSM are still human beings with their own mind and own opinions.

I have much more respect for a CSM member who says what they truly thinks then just says what they think will make them more popular, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.

Whilst I might not totally agree with what Ripard has said, I actually have more respect for him being truthful then jumping on the bandwagon trying to get brownie points.

Unless of course you want people on CSM who say stuff in public to get brownie points and then do the complete opposite when in front of CCP.

I am sure some CSM members will come out and say how bad CCP have been and its a total disgrace and everybody will go "yeah you see this person gets, our hero"

In reality they will then most likely say the total opposite when sitting in front of CCP.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#67 - 2013-10-07 07:00:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture.

I don't really buy that any more.

All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as well… except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one.


On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights

On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments.

Yes... "less generous". OK.

What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?

Every previous precedent says they do.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Prince Kobol
#68 - 2013-10-07 07:02:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture.

I don't really buy that any more.

All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as well… except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one.


On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights

On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments.

Yes... "less generous". OK.

What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?

Every previous precedent says they do.



Quick Everybody get your torches and Pitch Forks.. TRAITOR !!!!!!

(This is sarcasm, I know some people get confused )
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2013-10-07 07:03:27 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
CSM members,

Who do you actually represent? CCP or the Eve community?

I don't know how out of touch some "representatives" can be.

It doesn't matter how large or small CCP's mistake might be, ( although IMHO I beleive this is very much a large issue ), CCP has really messed up, AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a major issue and the Eve community deserves not only an answer to this issue but also a solution.


Should I represent the part of the community that wants non-consensual PvP removed from hi-sec, or the part that wants it defended?

As for "out of touch", if 499,999 EVE players want CCP told that 1+1=3 and I know that 1+1=2, I'm going to tell CCP that the answer is '2'. I don't care tuppence for popularity, either with CCP or with the playerbase.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#70 - 2013-10-07 07:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
Malcanis wrote:
What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?


It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy.

We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out.
We're talking about the here and now, not if when then.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#71 - 2013-10-07 07:20:16 UTC
For those that feel left out about the IshScorps...


Go buy a normal Scorp. They're better.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-10-07 07:25:06 UTC
Of course CCP has the right to do X with their game. That's pretty much a given. Nobody's saying CCP doesn't have the right to hand out rare ships. Arguing against that line is ridiculous.

Just because you have the right to do something, does not however mean that you're justified in doing so. That's the contention here.
I would have thought that a CSM member would understand the distinction, but it seems only a few do.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-10-07 07:31:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
...I don't know. I said I thought the lack of transparency was not the best way. (see bolded)...
The lack of transparency was the worst possible way... it screams that even CCP thought they were doing something 'shady' and didn't want the community to know about it.
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-10-07 07:38:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture.

I don't really buy that any more.

All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as well… except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one.


On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights

On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments.

Yes... "less generous". OK.

What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?

Every previous precedent says they do.



Malcanis,

CCP might have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions, but what CCP has done is blatant favouritism towards, of all things, a for profit gambling site. It's this favouritism which is absolutely wrong. Why? Because it destroys the sandbox that Eve is suppose to be. Just because Somer is a means of cash revenue for CCP, doesn't justify CCP to shower Somer with gifts.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#75 - 2013-10-07 07:42:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course CCP has the right to do X with their game. That's pretty much a given. Nobody's saying CCP doesn't have the right to hand out rare ships. Arguing against that line is ridiculous.

Just because you have the right to do something, does not however mean that you're justified in doing so. That's the contention here.
I would have thought that a CSM member would understand the distinction, but it seems only a few do.



Exactly this.

A line needs to be drawn.

For me, a public, transparent giveaway is acceptable as long as it is not economy warping and does not convey a large lasting advantage in PVP. Note the word 'acceptable', not 'fine'.

"Enter this Alliance Tournament, follow these rules, and possibly win these prizes" or "Nominate a fansite for a prize - CCP's ten favorites will get a prize" are fine by me.

But giving out half a trillion ISK (enough to fund small alliance wars) is on the lower threshold of economy warping, and there was nothing public or transparent about this, just a GM giving their mates a leg up.

It's not as serious as the T2 BPO GM-player collusion which was economy warping, conveyed a large, lasting PVP advantage and was as far from public and transparent as you can get, but the question must be asked - if GMs were caught on this one, how many times have they colluded with players and not been caught?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#76 - 2013-10-07 07:43:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


No I don't see the "huge" ISK value as much of an issue. For the following reasons:

1) The Somer people have more ISK than they know what to do with. The ISK value of this award is meaningless to them.

2) And that ISK value is pretty hypothetical. And it's based purely on the rarity of the Ishscorps given out so far. Note that so far. CCP have said outright that they've given these out before and they're going to be given out again. The mere fact of giving out another 30 has significantly reduced the rarity of these ships.

In fact I think that giving gametime to Somer would be much less appropriate than the Ishscorps. That really would be a straight up money gift, rather than what amounts to a set of harmless souveniers.


It doesn't MATTER about the rarity of the ship. I could tie you up in real life and hostage you, but if noone would pay anything for you it doesn't mean your life is worthless, nor does it mean I should just give it away to anyone.
If CCP wants to give away "community awards" then they should:

#1 Be consistent in their give aways (not JUST Somer, but plentiful of other people)
#2 Be OPEN and PUBLIC about their give aways
#3 Give away items that truly are worthless ingame (no effect, only vanity), but can be shown to other people, e.g. clothes, skin coloring of pods, etc. etc.

We don't even know what else has been given away under the rug, because this is one of the few cases like T20. It was given and it was leaked and uproar happened.
And I find it ironic that the CSM were created exactly due to a rogue dev giving away items with high value (don't make me remind me of your life again), and the exact thing has happened here. Except the rogue dev is now the entirety of the CCP and most likely the community team. So much for CSM, badrw.
Cierra Royce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-10-07 07:47:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture.

I don't really buy that any more.

All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as well… except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one.


On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights

On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments.

Yes... "less generous". OK.

What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?

Every previous precedent says they do.


In this case CCP first secretly gifted Somer 30 rare ships 'under the table' and then just over a month later with no real public explanation openly stated they intend on handing into their control a trillion or so more of extremely rare ships.

Let's say this had gone uncontended and following the 'giveaway' CCP rewarded Somer with another batch of scorpions as a reward for all going so well, and then began plans for the next joint lottery.

Limited supply in each case yes, but essentially unlimited supply on an instalment plan.
Le Petite More
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-10-07 07:53:25 UTC
He is wrong and knowing CCP talks to players like him explains how they made such a big mistake.

Most posters don't want stuff, that is sarcasm. A form of communication everyone trying to protect Somer seems to be incapable of understanding. Here is why this is wrong:

A: Gifts given to a for profit site with competitors is CCP showing blatant favoritism

B: This is on top of them vouching for the trustworthiness of an organization in EVE which is a huge boost to their profits, undeserved, and against CCP's own EULA.

C: CCP Navigator use to work for blink and has now twice favored blink with rare bonus items over every other entity in the game with no transparency which makes people suspicious.

D: His only response to this criticism was to promote their free blinks on the forums which aren't actually free.

E: CCP Falcon said CCP would not support any event that was controlled by players if everyone in EVE could not participate. Blink bans players for arbitrary reasons and yet CCP gave them items to raffle off. They couldn't even keep this story straight for a month.

F: The very players elected to stop CCP from playing favorites and spawning ingame items for people is now defending them. If there was any good reason to provide Somer with all these free items CCP would have released their guide to who gets free stuff. There isn't because blink only got the stuff due to favoritism.

G: They have now twice been given billions, maybe trillions of isk in a row for "community service." Has anybody else gotten anything in the interim? No because CCP doesn't care about community service.

He and the rest of the CSM are starting to look like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed bull****. Though thank you to the ones who stood up against this on twitter.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#79 - 2013-10-07 07:56:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Leigh Akiga wrote:
This is a Ripard Teg callout thread:

We voted for you to talk sense into CCP, let them know the players thoughts and feeings about development and keep them from doing dumb things. Not to white knight the dumbest thing they have done since Incarna.



Come on now, this is barely the 10th dumbest thing since Incarna.

Actually I don't think it's even in the top 10.


what are the top 10, then?

not questioning your judgement, i just want something to read until the sports comes on later.


Most of them are NDA'd, alas.

Seriously though, the Ishscorps were repurposed as community awards. They've been given out as a community award. That's OK. The 'dumb' here was the timing and the not being transparent about it rather than the community award itself. That level of dumb merits a Roll and maybe a :CCP: but this aint no T20 or $1000 Jeans class event. The Derpometer needle barely twitched on this one.

And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)


Yeah, you just wait until the speed changes hits - there's gonna be a storm like non-other.

"Most" is not all.. Put up or shut up.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#80 - 2013-10-07 07:59:37 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Actually, we voted Ripard to use his best judgement in representing us. OK, his best judgement disagrees with a number of folks. Simple - Don't vote for him next time.

Problem solved.


Waiting for the next voting round seems sort of distant. Recall?