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Spreading out the Trading Hubs
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-10-07 00:19:52 UTC
Disclaimer: This idea is not a proposal to implement. Its an idea that could and probably would need adjustment and or may not even be a good idea. Any % or ratio's are placeholders and can obviously be adjusted.

Problem:

Jita is the go to hub in EVE. If you go to the other trading hubs you'll likely find you still need to go to Jita or you'll likely have to pay some absurd prices for stuff or sell for absurdly low prices. It takes approximately 20 minutes to get from one hub to another, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.


A Possible Solution

The five major hubs are integrated into one mega-market. If somebody is in Rens and wants to put up their goods for sale they put the goods up for sale in Rens. The goods are available to buy in the other 4 hubs however they incur a 10% delivery fee and take 30 minutes to arrive in hanger.

This means if somebody had a Vindicator in Rens, they can list that Vindicator on the market in Rens at 1 billion, and somebody in Amarr can buy that Vindicator for 1.1 billion and have it in Rens in 20 minutes.

Alternatively that person can fly the Vindicator to Amarr and sell that Vindicator for 1.1 billion in direct trade.


How Does This Improve EvE?

It spreads out the hubs. In the real world those other hubs would be properly stocked and priced since there is a shortage in those hubs. Additionally proper courier services would exist so that there was a reliable and cost effective way to have goods moved in a reasonable time (days) but in EvE we run more on minutes and hours so such couriers services do not exist. You cannot buy a Vindicator in Jita and have it shipped to Rens within minutes or even hours without substantial costs that far outweigh the benefits of doing it yourself. In the real world we buy a car and its delivered free or at a tiny fraction of the cost of the vehicle.

If you could, instead of just saying NO, or Stupid Idea, add a little bit of why you think its a NO idea or why you think its stupid. What problems it could alleviate. What problems it could cause. Comments appreciated.





CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-10-07 00:24:33 UTC
Just separate the empires, and by association trade hubs, with low sec.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#3 - 2013-10-07 00:59:01 UTC
I wouldn't mind seeing more diverse markets but don't want anything auto-magical about deliveries.

Courier mechanics are fine as is. We just need more reasons to set up in other areas.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#4 - 2013-10-07 01:13:47 UTC
If we're going to allow buying from other regions it should work exactly the way buying works now. If you're in Rens and you buy something from Jita, it should instantly appear in your hangar... in Jita. You can then contract it to a courier service to have it brought to you. There are more than a few to choose from. Personally though, I feel that being able to openly interact with the markets in other regions would simply serve to homogenize the market and make prices basically the same everywhere, thus negating the point of even having a regional market.

Instead, what I could support would be the ability to check other regions' markets remotely but not be able to buy from or sell to them. So if I want to see what a Brown's Modified Flux Capacitor is selling for in Kor-Azor before making the trip from Verge Vendor, I should be able to; I simply won't be able to actually buy that Flux Capacitor from Kor-Azor until I get the region.

It's basically the same function that Eve-Central provides, except with the full spread of available data that the market interface gives us.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-10-07 01:44:22 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
If we're going to allow buying from other regions it should work exactly the way buying works now. If you're in Rens and you buy something from Jita, it should instantly appear in your hangar... in Jita. You can then contract it to a courier service to have it brought to you. There are more than a few to choose from. Personally though, I feel that being able to openly interact with the markets in other regions would simply serve to homogenize the market and make prices basically the same everywhere, thus negating the point of even having a regional market.

Instead, what I could support would be the ability to check other regions' markets remotely but not be able to buy from or sell to them. So if I want to see what a Brown's Modified Flux Capacitor is selling for in Kor-Azor before making the trip from Verge Vendor, I should be able to; I simply won't be able to actually buy that Flux Capacitor from Kor-Azor until I get the region.

It's basically the same function that Eve-Central provides, except with the full spread of available data that the market interface gives us.

What you say has merit. That would be useful.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#6 - 2013-10-07 07:01:20 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

Instead, what I could support would be the ability to check other regions' markets remotely but not be able to buy from or sell to them. So if I want to see what a Brown's Modified Flux Capacitor is selling for in Kor-Azor before making the trip from Verge Vendor, I should be able to; I simply won't be able to actually buy that Flux Capacitor from Kor-Azor until I get the region.

It's basically the same function that Eve-Central provides, except with the full spread of available data that the market interface gives us.


+1, its just integrates a feature that we already ahve access to with less delay.

You can currently search for Contracts Universe wide, why not the market.
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#7 - 2013-10-07 07:16:58 UTC
Quote:
You can currently search for Contracts Universe wide, why not the market.


+1 man, this should be so.
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#8 - 2013-10-07 07:25:55 UTC
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
Quote:
You can currently search for Contracts Universe wide, why not the market.


+1 man, this should be so.


You cannot, however, put up or accept non-courier contracts from outside your current region.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#9 - 2013-10-07 07:31:41 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
Quote:
You can currently search for Contracts Universe wide, why not the market.


+1 man, this should be so.


You cannot, however, put up or accept non-courier contracts from outside your current region.


Sure , and i'm cool with that. You should have to travel to get your stuff any way. It just helps you figure out where to go.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-10-07 07:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Flames
bad idea...the OP's proposal would completely eliminate a huge portion of the trader market

and as far as being able to view all regions at once...that could get extremely messy to actually view in the market window and if you made some kind of filter to only show certain systems then you'd hurt other markets chances of being able to sell/build a market there because they wouldnt be shown in your filtered view
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#11 - 2013-10-07 09:17:09 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
bad idea...the OP's proposal would completely eliminate a huge portion of the trader market

and as far as being able to view all regions at once...that could get extremely messy to actually view in the market window and if you made some kind of filter to only show certain systems then you'd hurt other markets chances of being able to sell/build a market there because they wouldnt be shown in your filtered view


You would simply choose the region you want in the filter drop-down. As far as other markets having no chance.. Eve-Central is already a thing and already allows you to view any regional market you want. Currently, the various markets seem to be doing alright with it existing.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#12 - 2013-10-07 10:52:39 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Just separate the empires, and by association trade hubs, with low sec.


+1, but there absolutely has to be multiple ways through.

Sure, you can take the Rancer or Amamake pipe (shortest route), but there should also be several more meandering routes so you can still get through.

Distances between stars (not jumps) should also be enough that you even with 5/5/5 skills, you're not likely to bridge the lowsec in 1 jump. There can be places where this is possible, but they end up making their own choke points ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#13 - 2013-10-07 12:06:16 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
If we're going to allow buying from other regions it should work exactly the way buying works now. If you're in Rens and you buy something from Jita, it should instantly appear in your hangar... in Jita. You can then contract it to a courier service to have it brought to you. There are more than a few to choose from. Personally though, I feel that being able to openly interact with the markets in other regions would simply serve to homogenize the market and make prices basically the same everywhere, thus negating the point of even having a regional market.

Instead, what I could support would be the ability to check other regions' markets remotely but not be able to buy from or sell to them. So if I want to see what a Brown's Modified Flux Capacitor is selling for in Kor-Azor before making the trip from Verge Vendor, I should be able to; I simply won't be able to actually buy that Flux Capacitor from Kor-Azor until I get the region.

It's basically the same function that Eve-Central provides, except with the full spread of available data that the market interface gives us.


Alvatore DiMarco has kicked the ball in the back of the net with this one. Spot on.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#14 - 2013-10-07 13:16:59 UTC
I guess this is a good way for CCP to sell the sidekick idea..... Not that any of us have one in each trade hub anyway of course.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#15 - 2013-10-07 13:29:03 UTC
Shamus en Divalone wrote:
I guess this is a good way for CCP to sell the sidekick idea..... Not that any of us have one in each trade hub anyway of course.


you only have one in each hub? Shocked

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-10-07 14:10:25 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Disclaimer: This idea is not a proposal to implement. Its an idea that could and probably would need adjustment and or may not even be a good idea. Any % or ratio's are placeholders and can obviously be adjusted.

Problem:

Jita is the go to hub in EVE. If you go to the other trading hubs you'll likely find you still need to go to Jita or you'll likely have to pay some absurd prices for stuff or sell for absurdly low prices. It takes approximately 20 minutes to get from one hub to another, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.


A Possible Solution

The five major hubs are integrated into one mega-market. If somebody is in Rens and wants to put up their goods for sale they put the goods up for sale in Rens. The goods are available to buy in the other 4 hubs however they incur a 10% delivery fee and take 30 minutes to arrive in hanger.

This means if somebody had a Vindicator in Rens, they can list that Vindicator on the market in Rens at 1 billion, and somebody in Amarr can buy that Vindicator for 1.1 billion and have it in Rens in 20 minutes.

Alternatively that person can fly the Vindicator to Amarr and sell that Vindicator for 1.1 billion in direct trade.


How Does This Improve EvE?

It spreads out the hubs. In the real world those other hubs would be properly stocked and priced since there is a shortage in those hubs. Additionally proper courier services would exist so that there was a reliable and cost effective way to have goods moved in a reasonable time (days) but in EvE we run more on minutes and hours so such couriers services do not exist. You cannot buy a Vindicator in Jita and have it shipped to Rens within minutes or even hours without substantial costs that far outweigh the benefits of doing it yourself. In the real world we buy a car and its delivered free or at a tiny fraction of the cost of the vehicle.

If you could, instead of just saying NO, or Stupid Idea, add a little bit of why you think its a NO idea or why you think its stupid. What problems it could alleviate. What problems it could cause. Comments appreciated.


In the real world we use just-in-time logistics. So being properly "stocked" is not quite correct. However, that is kind of what you are getting at here. That in empire there is a built in logistics system that players can take advantage of. For example, an industrialist in Gallente space could look at the Jita market and make production decisions (i.e. a large price-cost differential between item X), so he makes X and lists it locally at a given price. People in Jita can see that price, and "order" it. 30 minutes later their order is in their hangar.

The effect of this would be to promote competition and it would increase trade.

However, I am not a fan of this. I think players should do this kind of thing, not have it provided mechanically and with only a 10% price increase as a downside. I favor having players provide this kind of content (e.g. Red Frog Freight).

I am also not a fan of the adding more low sec between empires and closing off the pipes that currently exist. Reducing trade is not a good way to increase trade, it is inherently contradictory.* If you want a robust economy, then you should remove the barriers to trade and competition, at least the mechanical variety (in game that is).

*One of the worst examples of this was NIRA implemented by the Roosevelt administration during the Great Depression. They nearly killed off a very strong and robust economic recovery in the summer of 1932 by implementing government regulated oligopolies in most major industries and prolonged the economic malaise.

Yeah, yeah, I know real world example and all that ****. But this is a simulated economy that has supply, demand, bottle necks and so forth. This is a potential goldmine for economic research. Economists already try to do this, but actual experiments with players tend to need large budgets (you have to pay your under-grad and grad students to participate).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Yolo
Unknown Nation
#17 - 2013-10-08 16:22:35 UTC
Easy way to spread out trading and prevent a single major hub such as Jita, is to have dynamic sales taxes. Such as offices increases when they are overbooked.

Sales taxes could increase with security status of solarsystem security rating and a fraction based on market activity in the system. Eg; you pay more to sell in a more active market. Just like a store would pay higher rent to have a store at a mall.

- since 2003, bitches
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-10-09 00:15:41 UTC
Yolo wrote:
Easy way to spread out trading and prevent a single major hub such as Jita, is to have dynamic sales taxes. Such as offices increases when they are overbooked.

Sales taxes could increase with security status of solarsystem security rating and a fraction based on market activity in the system. Eg; you pay more to sell in a more active market. Just like a store would pay higher rent to have a store at a mall.

Yeah pretty simple incentive and good isk sink.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-10-09 00:23:37 UTC
What about Haulers that make a living out of hauling crap from Rens to Jita and vice verca? You've just taken out a player driven activbty and put it in the hands of an NPC mechanism

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-10-09 01:58:31 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
What about Haulers that make a living out of hauling crap from Rens to Jita and vice verca? You've just taken out a player driven activbty and put it in the hands of an NPC mechanism

Not really. As I said in my original post the fees just placeholders. If the fee was significant enough then any locally posted items would be significantly cheaper and you could get them instantly.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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