Science & Industry

You might want to run those numbers again, invention is far from without profit.

~200b in ~10 months (not playing "full time" all months either) from T2 subcaps and jump freighters, all while doing invention. Margins are 20-40% depending on the market fluctuations (speculation, shortages, odyssey etc). Got a little burned last spring due to the jump freighter market crashing, but didn't really lose money.

It's most definitely not monopolized in the larger sense. A few ships that sell poorly are more affected by T2 BPOs, but that's about it.

Helped a friend of mine get started. Loaned him some subcap component BPOs, 15 billion and my expertise. 1.5 months later he was at around 25b. It's very profitable, if you know what you're doing :)

T2 Invention is very profitable for many items (makes me wish I wasn't so lazy and actually invent/manufacture things)

And most T2 BPOs aren't owned by their "lucky" winners, they are owned by the rich people that bought them off of those lucky winners.

I dont think any serious industrialist would produce T2 if it wasnt decent profit.
If some item is not profitable, people dont make it, then it gets rare due to low supply and price increases.

Would you please drop it already? There is no T2 BPO production monopoly.(maybe for a very few items which take way too much time to copy vs profit) Have some reads on the web. The BPOs can manufacture only a certain amount of goods. To satisfy the full demand is necessary to invent.

Invention IS profitable. Right now there are some problems with the materials market related to the moon goo Odyssey change, and overall mineral re-balancing. This has deemed many T2 ships unprofitable. But there are profitable invention goods in Eden.

Monopoly ....I don't think that word means what you think it means....


Not too sure how long you've been playing Alice so long story short, invention is fairly balanced. It might need some tweaking not too sure as it's been a few years since I dabbled in it but even with low but focused skills you can out produce a T2 BPO holder. Quantity will control the over all market price and frankly the inventors have the quantity to survive the minor hiccups of BPO owners throwing a few cheap items out on the market.


In some respects I would like to see T2 BPO's given out on occasion as it would make things a little more entertaining.




Yes, some bought them some got them during the original release. I still have my Praetor II BPO from the closing lottery, I use it to line my TV dinner tray. Eve much like life is not fair, thus you must either work hard, work together or out think those around you to get ahead.


This particular horse is dead, the vultures that were snacking on it years ago are long dead. Their bones crumbled to dust and have blown away in winds of change. The horse is dead.

My money's on this.

Wish I wasn't so terribad at the market ... as it stands, I'm lucky to be making a billion in profit/month ...

This horrifically uninformed statement pisses me off. It pisses me off because you obviously have ZERO idea wtf you are talking about but for some reason still have the testicular fortitude to actually comment on it. How could you have done an iota of research on this subject and yet still make such an asinine statement?

I'll tell you how. YOU DIDN'T!

I started doing industry June 21st of this year. I started with 4.8 billion isk, no production skills, an unskilled alt, no pos, no idea how many different materials/components went into T2 and zero BPOs.

I'm not going to go into detail but suffice to say I have a **** ton more isk and assets now than when I started.

I suppose I should be happy there are idiots like you sitting around not producing anything cause its "just not possible" to make isk off of t2 production. You know what. Ignore this post. Carry on =p

How long ago did the t2 BPO lottery end?
At LEAST 5+ years ago (Source), although I've heard estimates of 7-8 years ago (source).

You might have had a case for obliterating T2 BPOs many, many years ago, where people originally obtained t2 BPO's by luck. However, at this point, most people that have them worked for them (by thieving, killing, or buying them). Removing them now is just wrong on many levels, primarily because you're destroying years of efforts of many players that use them as investment items, which acquired them by fair and balanced means.

Now, no one (intelligent) can dispute that T2 BPO's allow players to produce a t2 items more profitably compared to invention (that is, when you ignore the cost of acquiring the t2 BPO). But most items in game are profitably produced by invention, and attacking the BPO holders really won't result in you making more isk (instead, you'll just realize more quickly that you are just bad at T2 Production, probably because you aren't informed).

So, before you respond, you need to go look at the facts:

In March 2012, the percentage of modules produce from invention:

93.95% of T2 Gyrostabilizers,
89.77% of 1400mm II,
87.34% of 425mm Rail II,
82.00% of Tachyon II,
74.23% of Torpedo Launcher II.

In March 2012, the percentage of ships produce from invention:

90.23% of Hulks,
67.85% of Sabres
65.01% of Wolves
22.16% of Pilgrims
6.00% of Eagles

Data Source
Additional Data Source
Direct Source <-- Have to search to find the relevant tweets.

Here's the point: Modules and Ammo are primarily produced through invention, so removal of those BPO's wont do anything but HURT the BPO holder.... These producers wont see more profit, and the consumers wont get any items cheaper.... Considering the work most BPO holders put in to acquire their BPO, this is just cruel and wrong to do!!!! Now, Ship production is often dominated by t2 BPO holders... however these items move slowly, and typically priced BELOW the invention production cost.... so removing these BPO's would result in HIGHER PRICES for people that want to buy these ships.... How is that good???? Sure, it means people that want to produce Eagles via invention could then make a profit, but who wants to reward the idiotic fool that is trying to produce slow moving T2 Ships for profit by paying more for those ships????

I have few more points:
1.) Many serious producers secure moongoo and minerals at BELOW MARKET VALUE. If you are competing against them, you're just going to lose.... Should this be fixed too? I think not, I like getting cheaper items....

2.) I'm not opposed to giving a boon to t2 production at POS's, such that we can produce t2 items at high-ME levels (which won't really alter module production all that much, but will ammo & ship production). The caveat.... this new POS production module can ONLY be done in LOWSEC or NULLSEC....

3.) I'd like there to be more risk to using ALL BPOs.... Having a BPO safely locked away in a station where it's at extremely low risk seems broken to me.... I realize we can't force expensive BPOs to be used AT THE POS until POS's have been revamped so players can have secure-able POS hangars, but implementing something like this would be awesome!!

4.) This is the duplicate of an old post I made... many things have changed in the last year (new decrytpors, ship balance changes have altered supply/demand curves, the moongoo bottleneck has changed), but the message is the same. You can make plenty of isk via invention, and you can compete in most MFG markets. If you are having trouble making ends meet, it is because of your incompetence, not because of some mythical T2 BPO holder!

Looks like after Revelations. Dev remarks suggest Revelations 1.4


Nessie is the Mother of Invention


And today's winning Lottery Numbers are...


Invention goes on...but where does the lottery go?