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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1101 - 2013-10-06 09:38:50 UTC
Fr00b Snap wrote:
Stratios is supposed to be speacialised in exploration, why would anyone fly it if there is better option available for everything that it`s supposed to be speacialised in? And you can`t remove drone hp bonus because lately npcs tend to switch to drones rather fast, without 50% hp bonus they wouldn`t last long.

What other hull hits like a HAC, tanks like either shield or armour cruiser and probes like a probing frigate .... all at the same time?
What better option do you know of when it comes to exploration? Sure you can use the specialised ships (T2) for the various tasks at which they are better, but that means you have to reship constantly, a hassle you can sidestep by using the SoE hull.

It is much the same as the Marauders; There are ships that do more damage, tanks harder and are better at grabbing the stuff but there is no other ship that does it all at once.

As for drones being whacked by overzealous NPCs, 'tis but a matter of tweakage and common sense. Point of lobbying for the HP removal is that with it the SoE cruiser is far too strong in PvP thus completely negating any arguments (such as yours) about its ability when being used for exploration as it will be a niche for it rather than the bread-and-butter it ought to be.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1102 - 2013-10-06 10:00:32 UTC
Holy **** how should I say it for you to understand ?! This Stratios is inferior in combat capabilities than any navy cruiser and larger !! And the T3 cruisers are already plain better at the ganky thing and EVE galaxy still haven't collapsed for God's sake !

Any ******* navy crusier can kill the Stratios already !!! And a Proteus is about twice as powerful as this PIRATE ship while having even MORE perks !!

Any navy or T2 drone cruiser have 125MBps of bandwidth, and they all have more tank than the Stratios despite its armor resist bonus ! Even some T1 cruiser can kill this ship ! And any BC will make short work of it and is as fast as it is. The cloak will indeed allow you to stay invisible and never deactivate it because you'll die most of the time if you do it with something on grid.

What you get for the pricetag of this ship over NAVY cruisers (not even HAC) is a cloak, a mid slot and less tank... A T3 might not even cost a lot more and have way more everything ! Not to mention the ship is VERY fragile for its price. God a fuckin Moa (!!!) have more tank and 75% of the dps of this thing, yet it's GUN dps ! Even the force recon are way more survivable than it because of their EWAR

And one should not forget this ship is a BRAWLER : it will COMMIT to fights and will never ever apply its heavy drone dps outside of scramrange ! A Cynabal is infinitely more OP than this ship because of this ! Just because it's a fragile brawler the Stratios will die a lot, period. Nerf it, and it's not a combat ship anymore.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1103 - 2013-10-06 10:09:25 UTC
This whole debate is insane : T3 cruisers exist for years with better capabilities than this Stratios. Yes they are largely OP, but ironicaly, NONE of the OPness complaint against T3 EVER aimed at the cloaky-gank fit... That should tell you something...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1104 - 2013-10-06 10:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
I believe that due to the mechanics of hacking and the relative strength of the various defences that only increments of 5 are relevant.
5 8 and 10 actually are only 2 levels. 8 is meaningless.

Please give these ships plus 10 virus strength, yes in non survivable fits they can be very destructive, but so are some other ships.
Basically IN MY OPINION THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT SHARE CCP Rise was pretty close to right in the beginning.

So. MY belief is as follows over original.

Virus strength + 10 both ships
Scanning to match covert ops but only on core probes.
Combat probes as trained T1
Note: Covert ops is first and foremost a Combat utility ship. A Combat scanner!
Larger hold to support 3 yurts or syphons on cruiser 1 yurt on frigate. On top of original
Drones to gain sleeper resistance/ survival through hit-points resistances or signature CCP decides method.
Plus 5 seconds on minispew or just save everyone and dump it already.

I an not going to discuss damage armor and resistances, as that will open a great load of hurt.

These are explorer fits
MY interest in these ships is from an explorers point of view.
If your interest is in maintaining the status quo you will violently disagree because they will change the way explorers behave and benefit from exploring.This WILL benefit mid range explorers and reduce the advantage that explorers from the old regime had.Until they adapt.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1105 - 2013-10-06 10:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
Bouh you're sounding more and more like a ranting lunatic. Your not a game designer and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about when it come to cloaky combat.

The beauty of a cloak it that it allows you to pick your targets. I'm fairly confident that the cruiser hull can achieve a good passive tank with a 1600mm plate, and if it can do 700+ dps I will take out its target pretty quickly.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1106 - 2013-10-06 10:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Bouh you're sounding more and more like a ranting lunatic. Your not a game designer and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about when it come to cloaky combat.

The beauty of a cloak it that it allows you to pick your targets. I'm fairly confident that the cruiser hull can achieve a good passive tank with a 1600mm plate, and if it can do 700+ dps I will take out its target pretty quickly.

.....
I specifically said i was not going to comment on combat, i was only ONLY discussing the exploration side.
How on earth does that make me a ranting lunatic, combat is for others to get upset about, I deliberately am NOT discussing damage, resists, and armor as i specifically and clearly said.
Wooops my bad thought you were aiming that broadside at me *shamed face* i thought Bouh was an exclamation of disgust

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1107 - 2013-10-06 10:40:34 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Bouh your sounding more and more like a ranting lunatic. You not a game designer and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about when it come to cloaky combat.

The beauty of a cloak it that it allows you to pick your targets. I fairly confident that the cruiser hull can achieve a good passive tank with a 1600mm plate, and if it can do 700+ dps I will take out its target pretty quickly.

Yes, that mean it's a rather good ship.

A cloaky proteus can have 80% of the dps and twice the tank, the same cloak, a combat probe launcher and fast warp speed to top it off.

Yet EVE haven't turned into Proteus Online...

Yes 700dps is good, but in current mid 2013 EVE, any drone or blaster ship can do it. That can seem high, but a Talos, when you calculate with overheat and drones, can do 900 GUN dps with 40kehp. That's more than this Stratios, and that don't rely on heavy drones. A Navy Exequror will put 850 overheated dps with medium blasters ; a Navy Vexor will put the same 850dps than the Stratios, but the heavy drones will have enhanced speed and tracking and the ship more tank. ALL BC will put the same kind of dps when you factor overheat and drones, yet they will have far more tank, or better speed and projection for ABC.

In the end, the Stratios is only a navy cruiser with cloak. Yes that's powerful, but that's all the 300M overprice will give you.

@epicurus ataraxia : Can't you just use a T3 cruiser and leave this thread alone ? They are better in every possible way and have this +10 virus bonus you so direly need. And they were aimed to be the highend explorer ship.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1108 - 2013-10-06 10:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Bouh your sounding more and more like a ranting lunatic. You not a game designer and you don't even sound like you know what you're talking about when it come to cloaky combat.

The beauty of a cloak it that it allows you to pick your targets. I fairly confident that the cruiser hull can achieve a good passive tank with a 1600mm plate, and if it can do 700+ dps I will take out its target pretty quickly.

Yes, that mean it's a rather good ship.

A cloaky proteus can have 80% of the dps and twice the tank, the same cloak, a combat probe launcher and fast warp speed to top it off.

Yet EVE haven't turned into Proteus Online...

Yes 700dps is good, but in current mid 2013 EVE, any drone or blaster ship can do it. That can seem high, but a Talos, when you calculate with overheat and drones, can do 900 GUN dps with 40kehp. That's more than this Stratios, and that don't rely on heavy drones. A Navy Exequror will put 850 overheated dps with medium blasters ; a Navy Vexor will put the same 850dps than the Stratios, but the heavy drones will have enhanced speed and tracking and the ship more tank. ALL BC will put the same kind of dps when you factor overheat and drones, yet they will have far more tank, or better speed and projection for ABC.

In the end, the Stratios is only a navy cruiser with cloak. Yes that's powerful, but that's all the 300M overprice will give you.

@epicurus ataraxia : Can't you just use a T3 cruiser and leave this thread alone ? They are better in every possible way and have this +10 virus bonus you so direly need. And they were aimed to be the highend explorer ship.


So what is this then!
I am commenting on the exploration ship in the exploration ship thread. Mmmm
Others are commenting about combat in the exploration ship thread, this is a combat explorer .is it conceivably possible that we are both posting in the right place?
So sorry for interfering with your personal soapbox.
Oh and i disagree with you assumptions regarding the T3 and that this is Not meant to be the high end explorer. i believe it is.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1109 - 2013-10-06 10:45:18 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
I'm fairly confident that the cruiser hull can achieve a good passive tank with a 1600mm plate, and if it can do 700+ dps I will take out its target pretty quickly.



Cloaky Proteus can do 600+ dps with much better tank.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1110 - 2013-10-06 10:45:48 UTC
In fact, the Stratios bring strictly nothing new compared to T3 cruisers, yet people scream in fear because of heavy drones on one hand and because of features&ideas discussion on the other.

IMO, when T3 will meet the nerfbat, the Stratios will then take the place of the top cloaky gank ship, replacing the T3 which will be a bit lower.

That ship is not even close to a revolution.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1111 - 2013-10-06 10:49:22 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
So what is this then!
I am commenting on the exploration ship in the exploration ship thread. Mmmm
Others are commenting about combat in the exploration ship thread, this is a combat explorer .is it conceivably possible that we are both posting in the right place?

You are asking for a christmas gift. The only reason you gave for the +10 virus bonus is because it's an exploration ship. Yet people already demonstrated that +5 was enough even for nullsec. So we have your wishes and questionable allegations versus proven facts. There's nothing more to say IMO.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1112 - 2013-10-06 10:50:32 UTC
I don't like the ship models, doesn't feel like EvE.

The Tears Must Flow
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1113 - 2013-10-06 10:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
So what is this then!
I am commenting on the exploration ship in the exploration ship thread. Mmmm
Others are commenting about combat in the exploration ship thread, this is a combat explorer .is it conceivably possible that we are both posting in the right place?

You are asking for a christmas gift. The only reason you gave for the +10 virus bonus is because it's an exploration ship. Yet people already demonstrated that +5 was enough even for nullsec. So we have your wishes and questionable allegations versus proven facts. There's nothing more to say IMO.

Ah proof
Is that the same person who in 2 different threads has plus 1 archeology and tech 2 relic analysers at the same time? , the same proof where he had a direct line to the core and no nastys? In null really i called bs then and i call bs now.
Yes i do know how to use forum search.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1114 - 2013-10-06 10:56:47 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Virus strength + 10

This is a T2 Pirate ship, notice the +10 virus strength.
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Chremoas:
Minmatar Frigate skill bonus:
10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret optimal range and falloff
Gallente Frigate skill bonus:
15% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed
Covert Ops skill bonuses:
10% bonus to scan strength of probes
20% reduction in CPU need for cloaking devices
Special Abilities:
200% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage
+10 Virus Strength to Relic and Data Analyzers
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
Notes:
Can fit Covert Ops cloaks and Covert Cynosural field generators. Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds.
Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 3 L, 2 turrets, 1 Launcher
2 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 45 PWG, 275 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 450 / 450
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 40 / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 80 / 51.25 / 25 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 365 / 250s / 1.46
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 440 / 3.12 / 930000 / 4.02s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km / 750 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Ladar
Signature radius: 30
Cargo capacity: 190

Covert Ops ships are T2 ships, note they also get a +10 Virus strength.
T3, while not T2 are on the same post as T2 begin advanced ships and they get the +10 virus strength.
Exploration frigates are T1 ships and get a +5 virus strength.

These ships while being pirate ships are still T1 ships there Meta level is 8 which is where there powe comes from but they are still T1 ships and therefore only get a +5 virus strength like all T1 ships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1115 - 2013-10-06 11:00:24 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
So what is this then!
I am commenting on the exploration ship in the exploration ship thread. Mmmm
Others are commenting about combat in the exploration ship thread, this is a combat explorer .is it conceivably possible that we are both posting in the right place?

You are asking for a christmas gift. The only reason you gave for the +10 virus bonus is because it's an exploration ship. Yet people already demonstrated that +5 was enough even for nullsec. So we have your wishes and questionable allegations versus proven facts. There's nothing more to say IMO.

Ah proof
Is that the same person who in 2 different threads has plus 1 archeology and tech 2 relic analysers at the same time?

neat thing about the test server, if you participate in mass testing you get free SP to test out things. One of the things i put free SP into was archeology and Hacking. On TQ i only had hacking 1 at the time.
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

, the same proof where he had a direct line to the core and no nastys? In null really i called bs then and i call bs now.
Yes i do know how to use forum search.

it can happen, accept the facts, go test if your self.... nm that might be too hard for you,

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1116 - 2013-10-06 11:06:31 UTC
How about letting CCP decide as to what their intentions are?
I am certainly not the only person wanting + 10 strength.
53 people so far have voted the request up "liked" it in the last 24 hours.
You have your opinion which i totally disagree with.
You totally disagree with mine.
Ccp will listen to our requests and accept or deny them.
Your reasons for wishing to cripple this ship are still unclear as to how they benefit the game apart from maintaining the status quo.
You contend it does not match existing this and that.
If it had 10 why does that matter so much to you, is there something to defend that would be so badly broken by it?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1117 - 2013-10-06 11:07:37 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If it had 10 why does that matter so much to you, is there something to defend that would be so badly broken by it?


Yes it is called Balance.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1118 - 2013-10-06 11:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
How about letting CCP decide as to what their intentions are?
I am certainly not the only person wanting + 10 strength.
53 people so far have voted the request up "liked" it in the last 24 hours.
You have your opinion which i totally disagree with.
You totally disagree with mine.
Ccp will listen to our requests and accept or deny them.
Your reasons for wishing to cripple this ship are still unclear as to how they benefit the game apart from maintaining the status quo.
You contend it does not match existing this and that.
If it had 10 why does that matter so much to you, is there something to defend that would be so badly broken by it?


Ccp will decide balance.
They have asked for our requests.
I have given mine and keep getting shouted over.
So I have to make sure that this request is heard over the noise.
You are also free to make requests.
If there is something you want on the ship Ask for it.
Do not tell me to shut up and do not tell me what I can and cannot ask for.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1119 - 2013-10-06 11:11:35 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

In the end, the Stratios is only a navy cruiser with cloak. Yes that's powerful, but that's all the 300M overprice will give you.


then don't buy one. Plenty of people will.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1120 - 2013-10-06 11:15:29 UTC
Fr00b Snap wrote:
Quinn Corvez wrote:
I'm fairly confident that the cruiser hull can achieve a good passive tank with a 1600mm plate, and if it can do 700+ dps I will take out its target pretty quickly.



Cloaky Proteus can do 600+ dps with much better tank.


Your not telling me anything I don't already know... What is your point? That the stratios should be better than a t3? Straight