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Lowsec Angel plexing ship
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Kahega Amielden

Rifterlings

Likes received: 1,324

#1 - 2013-09-30 23:58:44 UTC

I'm in the market for something new to run lowsec Angel plexes with. So far I've been using the following Gila:

[Gila, PVE]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Medium Nosferatu II
Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium Nosferatu II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Berserker II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Bouncer II x5

It's fully capable of running pretty much every site I run into; can swap between AB/MWD or SPRs/DDAs as needed for the site. However, the DPS is a bit weak at 581 for Bouncers (not counting lost DPS to swapping drone types, which is often necessary), and the need to nos to run all hardeners makes its tank much worse in practice than on paper.

I'm looking for something else that is going to give me more damage/damage application while still being able to run all the same sites. Being smaller/faster is a plus due to lowsec, but not required. Also, I'd like to keep the whole thing under/around 500M, but I'd consider going above if the fit was significantly better than other options.

some interesting quirks about Angel plexes: some degree of omnitank is necessary, there's a few rat types that deal EM/thermal damage. However, most Angel rats I've found have pretty short range so that can be abused pretty easily.

Any suggestions?

Bertrand Butler

Cras es Noster

Likes received: 344

#2 - 2013-10-01 03:58:06 UTC | Edited by: Bertrand Butler

Hm..since you are already proficient in Drones, have you thought about the new Ishtar? The Odyssey 1.1 re-balance made it very good. Here is a rough example costing less than 300mil.

[Ishtar, AE]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

True Sansha Medium Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith B-Type Explosive Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Gistum C-Type 10MN Afterburner

200mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

This one will give you a 572.9/929.9HP/s Angel tank, 700DPS from your bouncers @max control range (85km) and a good amount of damage from the 4 rail highs. It can be run without implants if you have AWU IV, and will cost you less than 300mil rigged. Another good fact about this hull is that it is much smaller than your passive tanked Gila (145m vs 225m) and can also orbit faster (both better speed and agility).

Have in mind that the above setup need cap charges to run properly (hence the mCB), but with that amount of tank and sig/speed you will never need to permarun it (your cargo bay holds enough charges for 4m perma though, with spare room for ammo/paste etc).

Hope that helps, cheers..C:


Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Likes received: 1,324	#3 - 2013-10-01 04:30:43 UTC Interesting idea. The two things that concern me, though, are -The **** poor EM and thermal resists. Angels do a bit of omni damage, and Gist Saints do mostly EM, so if I were to do this I'd need to prioritize them -even with 460m cargo bay, i'm not certain I could carry enough cap boosters to burn through a full site.

Dato Koppla

Spaghetti Militia

Likes received: 939

#4 - 2013-10-01 04:54:38 UTC

Battleships will generally be the least of your concern as you're able to speed tank them easily and even from a considerable distance. However if you get heavily webbed down (alot in Plexes) then you can run into some issues.

As for capacitor booster space, as said above, you'll be only be running the tank constantly while being heavily webbed or when there is still alot of dps on the field. Once you shoot down some ships and get your speed tank up you can easily start pulsing it without consuming capacitor charges.

Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 470
Hungry Eyes Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 470	#5 - 2013-10-04 20:36:26 UTC is speed tanking with mwd now a viable option with the new HAC bonus? for some of the harder plexes. i used to do them with a dual prop setup, but if mwd does the job now...

Dato Koppla

Spaghetti Militia

Likes received: 939

#6 - 2013-10-05 10:38:53 UTC

Hungry Eyes wrote:

is speed tanking with mwd now a viable option with the new HAC bonus? for some of the harder plexes. i used to do them with a dual prop setup, but if mwd does the job now...

Probably not, I'm not 100% sure but I think because of the way the tracking formula calculated the increased signature radius makes you take more damage despite the increase in speed as well. Basically sig radius plays a bigger part in your tank than speed does. Besides, you can fit almost everything you want on an Ishtar including a dual prop quite easily now with the fitting buffs.

Something like this:

[Ishtar, Ishtar Angels]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II
Large Peroxide Capacitor Power Cell

Improved Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Salvager II /OFFLINE
[Empty High slot]

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II

Hornet EC-300 x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5
Bouncer II x5
Berserker II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

You need to spend a little extra to get an adequate tank to run harder plexes because Angels is Ishtars weakspot. However if it's for Guristas you can easily get a 500dps cap-stable tank on the Ishtar with just T2 modules and you can use 2 DDAs vs this fits 1 DDA. This fit has everything you want, AB + MWD, a cloak as well so you can use the MWD+cloak trick, a probe launcher so you can go fully solo, and because drones don't use ammo and you have some logi bots you can pretty much stay deep in low/null sec without having to get more supplies.

Kahega Amielden

Rifterlings

Likes received: 1,324

#7 - 2013-10-05 17:28:37 UTC | Edited by: Kahega Amielden

Quote:

No. You will be harder to hit with an MWD on rather than off in a HAC. The real problem is that an AB is still better at sig tanking, and you're going to eat up all of the cap in the universe permarunning a MWD.

Quote:

You need to spend a little extra to get an adequate tank to run harder plexes because Angels is Ishtars weakspot. However if it's for Guristas you can easily get a 500dps cap-stable tank on the Ishtar with just T2 modules and you can use 2 DDAs vs this fits 1 DDA. This fit has everything you want, AB + MWD, a cloak as well so you can use the MWD+cloak trick, a probe launcher so you can go fully solo, and because drones don't use ammo and you have some logi bots you can pretty much stay deep in low/null sec without having to get more supplies.

I don't generally go off into the middle of nowhere to find DED plexes; mostly just what pops up around my home systems so, while the cloak + MWD is nice, isn't essential. The problem I have with that fit is that it is worse in both tank and damage as compared to the Gila...at least, on paper. It can run the MWD far easier (so I can maintain range) and it has a damage application bonus with sentries, so that'll help...but my main concern is that my Gila already has damage problems, and that Ishtar does 100 less.

Hungry Eyes

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 470

#8 - 2013-10-05 20:01:49 UTC | Edited by: Hungry Eyes

Sounds like dual prop ishtar is still the best way to go. Ab + extremely low sig is most of the tank. I used this 3 years ago to do 8/10 gurista plexes and much more. Except now id use 2 drone damage mods. Might have to only settle for 7/10 angel with 83% exp resist. Maybe give up one drone mod for an eanm. Bouncers hit hard and far anyway.

I just dont see active shield working as it's harder to sustain and totally kills your sig tank. But im open to suggestions

Bertrand Butler

Cras es Noster

Likes received: 344

#9 - 2013-10-05 20:14:05 UTC | Edited by: Bertrand Butler

Hungry Eyes wrote:

I just dont see active shield working as it's harder to sustain and totally kills your sig tank. But im open to suggestions

An active shield tank cannot increase your signature man, and I really fail to see the point about it being hard to sustain. Check the loadout example I posted above, its CB stable for these missions (in their entirety without restocking boosters), tested (no EFT warrioring) and optimal for the difficulty level.

Don't use MWDs for PvE in HACs, even with the bonus its still not worth it. To find out for yourself, just dual prop a hull and run around for a couple of minutes...XD


Hungry Eyes Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 470	#10 - 2013-10-05 20:39:33 UTC Mwd is for nullsec survivability. If you need cb's then it in fact is not sustainable. So for those of us who disappear into nullsec depths for a week or two at a time it's just not viable.

Infinity Ziona

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,796

#11 - 2013-10-06 09:12:57 UTC | Edited by: Infinity Ziona

[Ishtar, Angel Speed Tank Active]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II

Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field
Pith A-Type Explosive Deflection Field
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Domination 10MN Afterburner

425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M
425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

LG Crystal Alpha, Beta, Delta
Energy Systems Operation 603
Energy Management 603
Shield Operation 603
Shield Management 603

This is what I would use for angels. I'm currently using a little bit more of an expensive one, this does:

960 dps close range / 657 Bouncers only
460 dps tank (76, 77, 86, 83)
158 sig (up from 145)
716 speed
Cap Stable everything on

Costs -

425 million faction mods
160m ship
130m implants

715m

Its not overly pimped and little more expensive than 500m but a lot more effective than your setup.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)


Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster Likes received: 344	#12 - 2013-10-06 09:35:35 UTC Looks very good. A suggestion, why don't you replace one of the nanos with another DDA? The boost to DPS is enough to warrant it.


Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 2,796	#13 - 2013-10-06 09:52:09 UTC \| Edited by: Infinity Ziona 1 Bertrand Butler wrote: Looks very good. A suggestion, why don't you replace one of the nanos with another DDA? The boost to DPS is enough to warrant it. Updated it. CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “* Kaalrus pwned..... :)