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[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

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Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#221 - 2013-10-06 08:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Falkor1984
Sizeof Void wrote:
Falkor1984 wrote:
So unless the warp is longer than 50+ AU freighters will warp even slower, more than doubeling the time in some cases? Which percentage of Eve's systems has warps over 50+ AU? In my experience there aren't a whole lot of those systems. So in general it seems you are pestering freighters with this. Dont you think freighterering is horrible enough already? What have you been smoking?

Actually, making freighters slower should also make freight hauling more profitable. Fewer pilots are going to want to do their own long-distance hauling, and will be much more likely to just contract it out.

Which is what I do now. I can fly a freighter, yet I prefer to pay to contract it out, simply because I'm not into doing those long, slow runs. Even if freight rates triple after this warp speed change, I'll still consider it a bargain.


With the same reasoning I could say ceptors need to move slower, since being a mercenary then pays more, because less people want to do it....flawed reasoning. It is about the fact that it is just crappy gameplay to have someone sit in a freighter hauling stuff at even slower speeds. Where is the fun in that?

I mean I surely dont want to be ganked in my freighter, but the fact it exists does give me that stressed out feeling when I need to jump into a known gankers system. In that sense that is gameplay, because it stresses me out before I jump in and gives me that "hooraaayyy I made it" feeling when I pass that system.

Being in warp longer doesnt do anything for that: it just adds more boredom, because in warp noone can attack you nor can you defend yourself. There is no gameplay in warp.
Atreides 47
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2013-10-06 09:33:33 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Just remember, the Marauders too are affected by this and are only marginally faster than T1 battleships. And their subwarp velocity got completely thrashed in the "rebalance" they suffered recently.

This is more or less a T3 stealth buff in terms of PvE, too.

Who cares ? To waste double more time for already slowboat warping is just a ridiculous stupidity. Add to that ceptors that warping everywhere inside bubbles like - "I don't give a fak , Iam warping everywhere to 0km".

Long Live the Fighters !

CCP and nerfs - http://i.imgur.com/MejTGfL.jpg
Tampopo Field
Doomheim
#223 - 2013-10-06 09:44:48 UTC
I think this might be my favourite feature in Rubicon. At least among the ones that have a thread going at the moment. Even though I really like proposed the Interceptor and the EAF rebalances as well as the new SOE ships. It's pretty mutch perfect.

Notification: Because I'm lazy, I have a tendency to post without proof reading. This may result in various errors including but not limited to typos, weird typos, grammatical errors, bizarre sentence structure, words written repeatedly, mislocated paragraphs, pointlessly complicated explanations, general incoherency, and abrupt endings.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#224 - 2013-10-06 10:00:27 UTC
Falkor1984 wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Falkor1984 wrote:
So unless the warp is longer than 50+ AU freighters will warp even slower, more than doubeling the time in some cases? Which percentage of Eve's systems has warps over 50+ AU? In my experience there aren't a whole lot of those systems. So in general it seems you are pestering freighters with this. Dont you think freighterering is horrible enough already? What have you been smoking?

Actually, making freighters slower should also make freight hauling more profitable. Fewer pilots are going to want to do their own long-distance hauling, and will be much more likely to just contract it out.

Which is what I do now. I can fly a freighter, yet I prefer to pay to contract it out, simply because I'm not into doing those long, slow runs. Even if freight rates triple after this warp speed change, I'll still consider it a bargain.


With the same reasoning I could say ceptors need to move slower, since being a mercenary then pays more, because less people want to do it....flawed reasoning. It is about the fact that it is just crappy gameplay to have someone sit in a freighter hauling stuff at even slower speeds. Where is the fun in that?

I mean I surely dont want to be ganked in my freighter, but the fact it exists does give me that stressed out feeling when I need to jump into a known gankers system. In that sense that is gameplay, because it stresses me out before I jump in and gives me that "hooraaayyy I made it" feeling when I pass that system.

Being in warp longer doesnt do anything for that: it just adds more boredom, because in warp noone can attack you nor can you defend yourself. There is no gameplay in warp.

Then don't fly a freighter.

There are others who will take up the slack and make a profit doing so. Most freighter pilots don't fly them to get an adrenaline rush.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2013-10-06 11:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mioelnir
Sizeof Void wrote:
There are others who will take up the slack and make a profit doing so. Most freighter pilots don't fly them to get an adrenaline rush.

Let's be honest here for one second. Most freighter pilots fly them AFK on an alt account because you already want to stab yourself in the face if you have to fly them.
"Does not matter if we make it worse, nobody flies them at-the-keyboard anyway" is neither a valid argument nor good design.

The fact also is, all other ship classes have the option for a trade-off. Install a warp-speed rig if your warp speed is more important to you than what would otherwise go into that slot.
But freighters can not. They have no slots, they have no rigs. And in the current fitting system, they can't be given them either since the game lacks a "can not be fitted to" attribute. And without that one could cargo-rig a freighter to more than 1 million m3 making it possible to import packaged carriers and dreadnoughts into highsec.
keira sama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-10-06 11:24:28 UTC
as a miner and indy player, will there be a way for me to atleast get a chance to escape players with higher warp speed, if i use certain modules or will i be screwed no matter what i try?
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#227 - 2013-10-06 11:35:15 UTC
keira sama wrote:
as a miner and indy player, will there be a way for me to atleast get a chance to escape players with higher warp speed, if i use certain modules or will i be screwed no matter what i try?

Alignment is your friend. And have safespots off grid, since with the new system enemies can pretty much catch up to you before you got a chance to rewarp.

But to be honest, I do think grabbing a indy or miner char in low/nullsec becomes very easy. Seems to fall in line with the dumbing down that CCP is applying to the game lately (plexes for example). Apperently they feel killing a indy/miner in low/nullsec is too hard. No more player skills needed, the game will help you with very short warptimes.
keira sama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#228 - 2013-10-06 11:47:42 UTC
Falkor1984 wrote:
keira sama wrote:
as a miner and indy player, will there be a way for me to atleast get a chance to escape players with higher warp speed, if i use certain modules or will i be screwed no matter what i try?

Alignment is your friend. And have safespots off grid, since with the new system enemies can pretty much catch up to you before you got a chance to rewarp.

But to be honest, I do think grabbing a indy or miner char in low/nullsec becomes very easy. Seems to fall in line with the dumbing down that CCP is applying to the game lately (plexes for example). Apperently they feel killing a indy/miner in low/nullsec is too hard. No more player skills needed, the game will help you with very short warptimes.


It seems, that even though ccp is supposedly balancing this game. all i see is that pvp is rewarded a whole lot more than indy or mining, which already can't do anything to get better profits in low sec/null because it's way too easy to gate camp any that try and now they are making it so it's even more impossible to escape that threat.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2013-10-06 16:08:13 UTC
tbh i see pros and cons in the warp speed changes.

biggest pro is u can force fleet fights to some extend, biggest con will be hurting the industrial site.

To Industrial, normaly they should be easy picking for pirates but i think that the current changes will make escort duty a must have.

Either way it will change the way alot of players are playing the game.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#230 - 2013-10-06 16:40:43 UTC
keira sama wrote:
It seems, that even though ccp is supposedly balancing this game. all i see is that pvp is rewarded a whole lot more than indy or mining, which already can't do anything to get better profits in low sec/null because it's way too easy to gate camp any that try and now they are making it so it's even more impossible to escape that threat.


Not at all. Making miners more vulnerable is a boost to nullsec mining, because fewer miners means fewer minerals and an increase in mineral value. Competent miners will therefore see greater ISK/hr.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2013-10-06 17:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mioelnir
Gypsio III wrote:
keira sama wrote:
It seems, that even though ccp is supposedly balancing this game. all i see is that pvp is rewarded a whole lot more than indy or mining, which already can't do anything to get better profits in low sec/null because it's way too easy to gate camp any that try and now they are making it so it's even more impossible to escape that threat.


Not at all. Making miners more vulnerable is a boost to nullsec mining, because fewer miners means fewer minerals and an increase in mineral value. Competent miners will therefore see greater ISK/hr.

Which in turn will reduce the mineral supply, which will raise mineral prices, which will raise ship prices; leaving the spending power you earned for 1h of mining fairly equal. And once the price is high enough, people that do not usually mine will do so, and the earnings and all the connected prices will ripple down again.

This change is, overall, good and needed. It will cause dramatic shifts in the current meta. But it won't be the victimless, beneficial-to-all change you claim it to be.
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#232 - 2013-10-06 18:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Falkor1984
Gypsio III wrote:
Competent miners will therefore see greater ISK/hr.


Compentent as in HISEC miners? You seem to forget that only Morphite is mined exclusively outside hisec. Rising mineral prices combined with more risk in nullsec will cause more hisec mining (apart from Morphite).

But the point is, why make pvp-ing in nullsec even easier. It doesnt take a whole lot of skill to catch a ratter or miner at the moment. Dumb down scanning system gives you their probable location in 1 second, now the shorter warptimes make it even easier. Killboards everyday show that catching a miner/ratter isnt hard at all, why does it need to be simpler?

This change basically dumbs down the miner/ratter hunting game to a level where u hardly need any skills, while at the same time hurting BS fleets (which are often used because of the silly structure grinds) and making hauling even more boring. Please explain how the game will improve if you let people look at a ship in warp (that they cannot even control) longer?

Dont get me wrong, Im not pro bear, pro miner, pro indy or pro pvp, but Im pro entertaining gameplay. Dumbing the game down and having people stare at a screen longer while they cannot interact with the game is not the way to go. The only fanboys I see in this thread are pvp-ers that like the fact that their pvp gets easier. Well, I PVP as well on many of my characters and if it gets too simple the fun is gone. Its like plexing or factional warfare: it so fricking easy now I dont bother with it anymore. No challenge = no sense of achievement when succesful = no fun = no subscription. Eve is supposed to be hard, dont dumb it down and make it boring.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#233 - 2013-10-06 19:49:30 UTC
Mioelnir wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
There are others who will take up the slack and make a profit doing so. Most freighter pilots don't fly them to get an adrenaline rush.

Let's be honest here for one second. Most freighter pilots fly them AFK on an alt account because you already want to stab yourself in the face if you have to fly them.
"Does not matter if we make it worse, nobody flies them at-the-keyboard anyway" is neither a valid argument nor good design.

Not true. Most freighter pilots do not fly AFK on an alt account. Every experienced hauler knows that is just a good way to get yourself ganked.

And, there are many pilots who simply enjoy hauling, just as there are many pilots who enjoy mining. For them, Eve is something they play as a casual game. While they are hauling or mining, they are also chatting with in-game friends, watching a movie, or even doing some work.

This game simply isn't as one-sided as many PVP players seem to think - ie. not everyone thinks of mining or hauling as a grind. Quite a few players have actually *never* participated in PVP.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#234 - 2013-10-06 20:07:22 UTC
keira sama wrote:
as a miner and indy player, will there be a way for me to atleast get a chance to escape players with higher warp speed, if i use certain modules or will i be screwed no matter what i try?

Mining barges and exhumers currently have a warp speed of 6 AU/sec. I did not see them listed on the new chart, but if they retain this speed, then they will warp faster than BCs and dessies (the preferred ships for ganking miners).

If you fly a Proc or Skiff, with a couple of warp stabs, then you should have a fair chance of escaping any solo ganker, even one in a BC.
KatanTharkay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2013-10-06 22:24:43 UTC
Please don't lengthen the warp time too much or people might start playing some other games just to keep themselves busy while warping. Spending too much time doing nothing in eve (warping = no interaction with the game world except chat) is not something desirable.
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc.
#236 - 2013-10-06 23:14:35 UTC
30 jump trip in a Raven.
Better crack open a cold one and watch an entire season of MASH.


JK ILU CPP, interceptors actually work now. Although they could do with even smaller signature and dps.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#237 - 2013-10-06 23:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Atreides 47 wrote:
~1 minute to warp 20 AU for BS, up from ~30 seconds ? Stop ruining this game, thats ridiculous BS.
BS must have 3 AU warp speed as now and there is no point to cut it.


IRL battleships move at pitifully slow speeds compared to their smaller, lighter armored/armored counterparts. I don't see what people are complaining about.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#238 - 2013-10-06 23:23:06 UTC
Quote:
Most T2 ships will be slightly faster than their T1 versions (more if their role demands it) to reflect their more advanced construction.

I think this is wrong. T2 ships should be designed to be better suited for specific roles and not be better in a miriad of ways to the point that they make T1 ships absolete. The recently rebalanced HACs are making other ships obsolete in a combat role (battlecruisers and battleships). This change will increase that. HACs need a stronger and more suitable role-specific bonus (reduced mass addition when fitting AB/MWD?) and at the same time be nerfed in their general capabilities. It may be argued that faster warp speeds makes many T2 cruisers more suitable for their roles, but I don't see this for the T2 battleships. Also bombers for instance should be able to outrun battleships and don't really need much more than that. As they fit overseized weapons it would make sense if they were relatively slow for a frigate which then makes other small ships more suitable as a counter. I wouldn't mind seeing T1 interceptors warp at the same speed as AFs or even Interdictors.
Arec Bardwin
#239 - 2013-10-07 00:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arec Bardwin
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
IRL battleships move at pitifully slow speeds compared to their smaller, lighter armored/armored counterparts. I don't see what people are complaining about.
You are comparing IRL to a GAME. Having people spend too long time with no interaction in a game is not fun, and players may find something else to play.

Interceptors will have plenty of time to intercept with the new changes without making already slow ships warp even slower. Warp times are already long enough.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#240 - 2013-10-07 00:32:59 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Having people spend too long time with no interaction in a game is not fun, and players may find something else to play.

lol... you must be a child of the video game era, and have never played chess or baseball.