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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Author
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#1081 - 2013-10-06 00:02:32 UTC
One would think with the release of new pirate ships re-balancing the old ones at the same time would be a good idea.

Cynabals are everywhere and I'd really like to fly the Phantasm without getting laughed at.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1082 - 2013-10-06 00:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
How's this for better stats?



Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210



Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +10(5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550



What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.

Very well thought out it Looks good, I think you forgot to put the + 10 virus strength on the straatios too, need it just the same as they both will probably explore the same areas.
Hopefully on the new server image it will accurately reflect tq so we can try it out

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1083 - 2013-10-06 00:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Not a fan personally of per level drone bay bonuses would rather they were rolled into the hull (which CCP seems to be doing with them now) and getting a more useful bonus in their place.

Slot layout is due to the racial origins even if it isn't to everyone's tastes.

"Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range" is one I would support but still don't really feel its going to overly encourage laser use but its a step in the right direction.

Still kind of rooting for them both to get a static 50% bonus to amarr drone damage (might be a tiny little too much on the stratios) just so we see some variation in drones used and gives them a little more of an edge without being too overly powerful.
Cselle
Perkone
Caldari State
#1084 - 2013-10-06 00:52:03 UTC
If people are worried the new SOE ships will render obsolete Cov Ops frigs, remember they are for "Covert Operations" not explorations. Meaning scouting, cloaking, scanning down enemy ships, etc. Inversely the SOE ships are for exploring anomaly sites and WH's and not stealthy tactics.

I would personally say to nerf the exploration virus strengths on the Cov Ops ships, or remove them completely. In return, boost their ability to use expanded probe launchers and combat scan probes.

Whereas for the SOE frigate, sure I'd love cloak on them, but in the interest of balancing I could do without covert ops cloaking, and buff their role for hacking sites.

For the SOE Cruiser, I see their primary role as to run combat sites or possibly lower level wormholes.

Perhaps the SOE ships could have a velocity or CPU bonus for the improved cloaking, but not the Covert Ops cloak, something similar to what the Black Ops ships have.

This would help to maintain the Cov Ops frigates use in it's role as stealthy scouts.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1085 - 2013-10-06 01:37:52 UTC
Why are there suggestions nerfing drone Hitpoints.. that's not damage, that's just how tanky the drones are..
And why was there talk of an Armor Rep bonus ? No.. Just No.. Armor Rep bonuses suck for PVE and PVP. Resist bonus wins every time. Better your resists, the less damage you take, the less you need to rep. The same resist bonus that makes them ideal for use with Logi's makes them ideal for Solo.

Lastly, all ships in eve that you can fit are PVP ships. Just look at how many people die to Ventures a week. If you can fit it, you can PVP in it.


With all that said, remember the paper DPS are not applied. Drones take time to launch, and travel to the target.. or in sentries case, sit still for you to evade or target.

Without another bonus, you are gonna be waiting a while after you decloak before you can do anything to a target.. time for most ships to warp off, or at least get their DPS and EWAR/Scram/etc applied first.

This ship is slow, it's not gonna outrun much, so once you start moving most ships will be able to outrun, even with webs applied to you (and yours to them).

It's gonna be expensive, this isn't a disposable T1 hull, not even a T2 hull, it's gonna cost 2-6 times more than most other ships it's gonna face. You are gonna feel it each time you lose one more than the others do.


In short I think it's not bad. I made my own suggestions earlier for minor changes.. Still think it would be even better to make this a Logi.. I've always through of the SoE as more Search and Rescue, rather than fighting it out.. but alas.. So leave it alone for the most part, don't listen to all the people saying it's OP, and put it on the test server.. Lets see what it does in practice.
Asa Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1086 - 2013-10-06 01:40:38 UTC
The slot layout is wrong for what they are supposed to do ....need 2 more high slot on the frig to fit full rack of guns + cloak and probe launcher (cant imagine what it would take to fin an extended and normal pvp fit on that lol) and a 6th high slot on the cruiser for the same reason ...the cruor and ashimmu have them for the neuts so i dont see why you couldnt fit all the mod you have bonus for ....that just silly
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1087 - 2013-10-06 01:50:57 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
How's this for better stats?



Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210



Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550



What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


You want to make the ship that already outclasses all recons in combat capabilities better at being a total ****? sigh.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1088 - 2013-10-06 01:58:57 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
How's this for better stats?



Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210



Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550



What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Quoted for truth

(Ice) Miner for life.

BloodBird
Plutonia Authority
#1089 - 2013-10-06 05:53:04 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The laser cap bonus is kind of an arbitrary bonus, without a damage or tracking bonus it will be neglected for what ever the pilots favored weapon will be. Usually autocannons.

The 37.5% scan bonus is a perfect fit as is the +5 to virus strength.

I'm not liking the 5/5/5 slot layout, a 4/5/6 would optimize the ship for exploration. Or better a 5/4/6.


The laser cap bonus is likely intentional. The drones (really 5 heavies out of a Cruiser? Is this the ship intended to kill the Ishtar now?) do most of the heavy hitting, and with a cap bonus but not a damage bonus you can freely chose what guns you want - you get no DPS bonus anyway. This way however lasers are actually possible to fit as you get a cap bonus to their use, as opposed to not getting any bonus to cap and only really having projectiles or hybrids as your options.

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1090 - 2013-10-06 06:41:39 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
The laser cap bonus is likely intentional. The drones (really 5 heavies out of a Cruiser? Is this the ship intended to kill the Ishtar now?) do most of the heavy hitting, and with a cap bonus but not a damage bonus you can freely chose what guns you want - you get no DPS bonus anyway. This way however lasers are actually possible to fit as you get a cap bonus to their use, as opposed to not getting any bonus to cap and only really having projectiles or hybrids as your options.

Gila has not only 5 Heavies/Sentries, but also a damage BONUS to them, which this doesn't. so I don't get the issues.
Emmerik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1091 - 2013-10-06 07:35:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Emmerik
I think a 'Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need' is not very usefull on the cruiser.
Having only 5 High slots, people wont really use turrets I gues... 1 covert cloak, 1 probe launcher, leaves room for
maybe 3 turrets, but who is gonna fit 3 medium turrets without a dmg or trakcing bonus?, your better of with drones range or neuts/nos in that case

I'd say give it a 50% reduction in CPU need for Cloak maybe?
Sariton Xavian
Mercado Mercator Partners and Associates
#1092 - 2013-10-06 07:50:42 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:


This is a PIRATE ship. Not just a faction ship. Pirate ships are supposed to be far more superior than T1 ships, much better than navy faction ships, and better than T2 ships.


I'm wondering on what basis a Sister's ship is a Pirate ship.

From an RP perspective they clearly aren't pirates, and from a gameplay perspective I would say the requirement to run missions outside empire space would define pirate faction status. You can run L4's for SoE in hisec, so to me that makes these non-pirate faction ships.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1093 - 2013-10-06 08:29:41 UTC
^ simply because you need to train two races ships skills to use it.
Sariton Xavian
Mercado Mercator Partners and Associates
#1094 - 2013-10-06 08:37:47 UTC
Fair enough, thanks.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1095 - 2013-10-06 08:37:50 UTC
Question: how does the Stratios fit a covert ops cloak without a CPU reduction bonus?
Emmerik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1096 - 2013-10-06 08:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Emmerik
answer: Open your fitting window and drag to cloak to a free high slot?

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops_Cloaking_Device_II
100CPU and 1PW it will cost you
Tampopo Field
Deep Stellar Coalition Enterprises
Silent Company
#1097 - 2013-10-06 09:00:23 UTC
I'm assuming someone came up with these ships after the ATXI reward ships had their stats announced. Unlike the previous rewards of AFs and HACs on steroids, the new reward ships Chremoas and Moracha are completely unique in their function. With the exception of tech-3 no ship can do what they can. Would explain the lack of a SOE battleship as well.

Personally I was expection pirate faction destroyers based on the new(er) destroyer models. I'm glad I was wrong. These new ships have alot more potential for new intresting roles then beefed up destroyers. And they look great as well. They do have a few things that might need some adjustiong though.

CCP Rise wrote:
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers


Since they are "pirate" faction ships, I think that they should have an improved performance over tech-1 when scanning and doing data/relic sites. A Virus strength and Scan Probe strength on par with the tech-2 however would serve to marginalize the Covert Ops class. Also the fact that you get the full bonus to Scan Probe strength regardless of ship skill Might not be the best of ideas. So I'd recommend the following:

Role Bonus: +8 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Gallente Frigate/Cruiser bonus:
+8% increase Scan Prob Strength per level

A middleground between the Covert Ops and the tech-1 exploration frigates. Also the Astero's Covert Ops cloak CPU reduction and the Straitos' reduction to energy turret capacitor need tould be attached to the Amarr ship bonuses:

Amarr Frigate bonus:
20% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks per level

Amarr Cruiser bonus:
10% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need per level

The only problem outside the bonuses that I can see from a cursory examination is this:

CCP Rise wrote:
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500


The Straitos might have a bit too mutch punch. The DPS that a full set of sentry drones or heavy drones can dish out with a 50% damage bonus is, in my opinion, too mutch for a cruiser that has a covert ops cloak capacity. Also this might cause a slight overlap with the Gila hull, though the latter can be made far more durable. And the prate faction cruisers have not rebalanced jet, so the problem of overlaping might go away through that rout later on.

So what to do? Maybe reducing the bandwidth from 125 to 100 might be called for. Other then that, the only thing I have to say is that these things are really gorgeous.

Notification: Because I'm lazy, I have a tendency to post without proof reading. This may result in various errors including but not limited to typos, weird typos, grammatical errors, bizarre sentence structure, words written repeatedly, mislocated paragraphs, pointlessly complicated explanations, general incoherency, and abrupt endings.

Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1098 - 2013-10-06 09:02:23 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Fr00b Snap wrote:
Ok, then lets sum up Stratios abilities in case if drone dps is nerfed.
Inferior to cov ops in scanning and hacking/analyzing
Inferior to Ishtar in running lowsec deds
Inferior to Proteus in ganking people running signatures/anoms
Superior to everything in looking sexy

Or one could do the same while taking into account its T1 status, even if it is faction:
Superior to everything probing related sans dedicated probers at probing.
Superior to most everything dps related sans dedicated dps boats (no need to single out the Ishtar).
Almost equal to all other pirate hulls in versatility/power, except the "WTF!" Phantasm.
Inferior to T3 in just about everything because T3 have been broken as hell for years.
Superior to everything in looking sexy (unless its made hippie rainbow coloured or something Smile).

DPS is fine at 'close to OP' as long as it has some drawback, personally suggested taking off the drone EHP bonus as it focuses it onto the PvE side of things without killing it if PvP is ones poison.


Stratios is supposed to be speacialised in exploration, why would anyone fly it if there is better option available for everything that it`s supposed to be speacialised in? And you can`t remove drone hp bonus because lately npcs tend to switch to drones rather fast, without 50% hp bonus they wouldn`t last long.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1099 - 2013-10-06 09:10:21 UTC
Emmerik wrote:
answer: Open your fitting window and drag to cloak to a free high slot?

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops_Cloaking_Device_II
100CPU and 1PW it will cost you


Oh, I alway thought a covert cloak required something like 1000 CPU... So yeah, draging it to a high slot would work Blink
Emmerik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1100 - 2013-10-06 09:14:55 UTC
Yeah, a while back that was the case, got changed. now you can only fit covert cloaks on specific ships