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minerbumping

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#81 - 2013-10-02 09:18:40 UTC
Quote:
I don't really agree with that. You don't have all the power. if someone wants to bypass your block, it's easy for them to do. If they want to hassle you, they can.


At which point, you have a case to make to legal authorities. Which, by the way, a lot of that stuff people like to call "cyber bullying" on, was already a crime. Defamation/Libel is already a crime, stalking is already a crime. An example would be that silly little bint who made the YouTube video a few years ago that got Anonymous after her. "Don't let your mouth write checks your ass can't cash" is pretty much a rule of life in general, not just the internet.

Quote:
Recently there was a case where someone had said something on twitter, others started harassing her and they started making websites accusing her of being a child molester and all sorts of things. If someone really wants to bully you they can.


I'd be happy to read up more about this, but I can't think of a way to Google that at work that won't get me in trouble, do you have a link?

Quote:
And sure, you can say "you have the power because you can just stop going on the internet". Well that's the equivalent of saying you can avoid terrorism by not going to public places. Or for that matter if you wanted to go to KFC, but i decided to start spreading fecal matter all over the walls and shrieking at the top of my voice, you should leave, I can stay. You have the power to leave. Why should it fall on the victim to stop doing what they want all because some twerp hiding behind the anonymity of the internet has no concept of social responsibility.


You've accidentally, I believe, made a strawman there.

Those things are already a crime. If someone is hurling feces at you in the local KFC (well, Church's chicken really has more of a rep for that, but I digress) then it's already a crime. It will be dealt with accordingly. I am not stating that you have a legal responsibility to remove yourself from that situation, merely a logical one. Call the cops, if the restaurant hasn't already, and leave the building. There's no reason on this planet why you would NEED to remain in that KFC. Staying is tantamount to complicity in participating in the spectacle.

You need to breathe. You need to sleep. You don't need to have feces flung at you. The only thing telling you otherwise is pride. If you ever think to yourself, in almost any situation, "I shouldn't have to", guess what, you do. Think it over again, and try to take your pride out of the equation.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#82 - 2013-10-02 10:05:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I don't really agree with that. You don't have all the power. if someone wants to bypass your block, it's easy for them to do. If they want to hassle you, they can.
At which point, you have a case to make to legal authorities. Which, by the way, a lot of that stuff people like to call "cyber bullying" on, was already a crime. Defamation/Libel is already a crime, stalking is already a crime. An example would be that silly little bint who made the YouTube video a few years ago that got Anonymous after her. "Don't let your mouth write checks your ass can't cash" is pretty much a rule of life in general, not just the internet.
Agreed, but then how do you reject the concept of cyber bullying in it's entirety? It's simply an extension of existing laws to cover the internet as a form of communication.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I'd be happy to read up more about this, but I can't think of a way to Google that at work that won't get me in trouble, do you have a link?
Unfortunately not. I have to sneaky google too :p. And I can't remember enough about it to google it quickly. I think it was either a lady disagreeing about x-factor or it was that lady that wanted more women on British bank notes.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You've accidentally, I believe, made a strawman there.

Those things are already a crime. If someone is hurling ***** at you in the local KFC (well, Church's chicken really has more of a rep for that, but I digress) then it's already a crime. It will be dealt with accordingly. I am not stating that you have a legal responsibility to remove yourself from that situation, merely a logical one. Call the cops, if the restaurant hasn't already, and leave the building. There's no reason on this planet why you would NEED to remain in that KFC. Staying is tantamount to complicity in participating in the spectacle.

You need to breathe. You need to sleep. You don't need to have ***** flung at you. The only thing telling you otherwise is pride. If you ever think to yourself, in almost any situation, "I shouldn't have to", guess what, you do. Think it over again, and try to take your pride out of the equation.
Well I said spreading it on the walls. Though that's probably still a crime, but the point is, I could be doing something perfectly legal that you and everyone else dislikes. That shouldn't mean that you all have to get out, it should mean that I do. You have the power to leave, but I have the social responsibility to leave.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#83 - 2013-10-02 11:02:33 UTC
Quote:
Well I said spreading it on the walls. Though that's probably still a crime, but the point is, I could be doing something perfectly legal that you and everyone else dislikes. That shouldn't mean that you all have to get out, it should mean that I do. You have the power to leave, but I have the social responsibility to leave.


And in EVE, there is no such thing as a social responsibility. On the internet in general, it's quite different, depending entirely on which community you belong to.

Furthermore, however much I might want you to just leave, I cannot control your actions. I can control my response to your actions, and I can control my own actions. If you aren't going to leave (and you are somehow breaking no laws in what you are doing), I have only two choices. Remove myself from the situation, or tolerate the situation. Anything else is wishful thinking.

Quote:
Agreed, but then how do you reject the concept of cyber bullying in it's entirety? It's simply an extension of existing laws to cover the internet as a form of communication.


But it's not. If laws already exist to protect against defamation/libel and stalking, then those things are quite simply that term. Cyber bullying is merely a trendy way for some people to say that they want to outright censor discourse they don't like, just because they don't like it.

It's a medium for people to wring their hands and wish that their actions didn't have consequences, and to explain away their own culpability in events. Blew 3 guys at an Eminem concert in Ireland, and they put pictures online? That's cyber bullying. Sent your boyfriend some nudes, and he spread them around after you cheated? Cyber bullying. Talk smack about Linus Torvald, and his fans send you hatemail? Cyber bullying.

It's become nothing more than a catch all for any interaction that happens to cause hurt feelings. Especially if the circumstance in general is entirely the fault of the "victim". It's advocation for the removal of self responsibility and the consequences of your actions.

So yes, I reject the premise in it's entirety, and wholeheartedly.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Chandra Visteen
Mineral Extractor Inc
#84 - 2013-10-02 13:59:57 UTC
What if you play with the chat window hidden?

But in reply to the OP, I can see why it happens. I can understand why someone has picked up the mantle of miner bumping and went with it. I can also see why it's being classed with exploitation and not bullying.

However, I'm on the same boat as the OP'er in terms of disliking it. It's not a particularly nice thing to do and I like to think there are people on the game that are willingly honest and keen to help other players - I like to think myself as one of them.

The problem with the world is that we're quicker to complain and moan than to praise. That's what starts threads like this and gets the word out about the 'bad' stuff - just turn on the news...all doom and gloom!

When was the last time a thread had been started mentioning how helpful someone was to them in the game?

At the same time, I don't go about with rose tinted glasses on. I'm aware what goes on. I just choose not to partake in it or get involved in it whilst I focus my energy and time on doing what I deem to be 'good' deeds.
Kalishka Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2013-10-02 14:32:18 UTC
Chandra Visteen wrote:
What if you play with the chat window hidden?


That's the pilots fault. I see no reason why any manner of ToS or EULA should get involved because someone didn't fancy a chat window on their screen.

Chandra Visteen wrote:
But in reply to the OP, I can see why it happens. I can understand why someone has picked up the mantle of miner bumping and went with it. I can also see why it's being classed with exploitation and not bullying.


It's good that you see that. The great thing about this game is that it gives room for people to play how they like. Smile

Chandra Visteen wrote:
However, I'm on the same boat as the OP'er in terms of disliking it. It's not a particularly nice thing to do and I like to think there are people on the game that are willingly honest and keen to help other players - I like to think myself as one of them.


You're right, there ARE honest and helpful players, that is good. Nobody here is saying there should not be any honest and helpful players. Again, I agree, miner bumping isn't a nice thing to do, but so what? The OP say's it's not nice, but then lobby's to stop this kind of action in the game. I'm pretty sure the OP is the one who is worse on the "not nice" scale here. Basically, he is saying "Because I don't agree with this style of play, I want it stopped. By stopped, I mean I want the power to successfully report and ban people who partake in this activity, because I disagree with it"

Chandra Visteen wrote:
The problem with the world is that we're quicker to complain and moan than to praise. That's what starts threads like this and gets the word out about the 'bad' stuff - just turn on the news...all doom and gloom!

When was the last time a thread had been started mentioning how helpful someone was to them in the game?

At the same time, I don't go about with rose tinted glasses on. I'm aware what goes on. I just choose not to partake in it or get involved in it whilst I focus my energy and time on doing what I deem to be 'good' deeds.


You're absolutely right there, all too often, people complain until they're red in the face, but somehow go very quiet when it comes to the praise.

In bold: That's probably the most honest and fair response to ever come out these forums. You have your games, and you let others play theirs. Couldn't be fairer than that Big smile

o7

Betty White knows it
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#86 - 2013-10-05 17:05:56 UTC
Dude. Putting "I pledge my support to James 315, and the New Order of Highsec, and promise to abide by the New Haliama Code of Conduct" in your bio has a requirement for those guys from Day 1.

It's on their site too, had you bothered to read it. It even says that by not doing so you forfeit your permit money and you have to pay 30 mil per ship after that for trying to cheat them, or something to that effect.

Reading comprehension, as Martha would say, it's a good thing.

Also, you don't have to have done anything for someone to gank you. They can gank you if they feel like it. That's pretty much the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2013-10-05 17:08:55 UTC
The code is an irreplaceable service to highsec and James315 should be commended for making highsec bot-aspirants better people.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Danial Boone
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2013-10-05 17:35:07 UTC

Yes, I read their web site.

Yes, but I do not support an extortion scam.

Been here for over 10 years, seen this stuff come and go, they get bored with it and move on the the next game where they can get their intimidation power rush.

The last time we had any thing in our bio someone did not like it and War Deced us because they did not like our Bio.
So Bios are and shall remain empty, to avoid insulting anyone. How is that for playing the game the way someone else wants us to.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#89 - 2013-10-05 17:52:58 UTC
Danial Boone wrote:

Yes, I read their web site.


Did you? Because you sure seemed surprised when they said you needed to have a pledge in your bio. Not that you objected to it from the start, no. That you had no clue.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2013-10-05 17:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Danial Boone wrote:

Yes, I read their web site.

Yes, but I do not support an extortion scam.

Been here for over 10 years, seen this stuff come and go, they get bored with it and move on the the next game where they can get their intimidation power rush.

The last time we had any thing in our bio someone did not like it and War Deced us because they did not like our Bio.
So Bios are and shall remain empty, to avoid insulting anyone. How is that for playing the game the way someone else wants us to.

It's not an extortion scam. You are responsible for paying the appropriate fees when you choose to mine. Freedom isn't free.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Danial Boone
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2013-10-05 18:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Danial Boone
Let me get this right,

I must pledge loyalty to an extortion scam.

Yes, I objected to it from the start

AND

I must pay someone to be able to mine rock/ice

Wow, who was I suppose to be paying when I started mining on 2003.05.11
Strange that no one has informed me of this some time in the last 10 years.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2013-10-05 18:06:09 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Danial Boone wrote:

Yes, I read their web site.

Yes, but I do not support an extortion scam.

Been here for over 10 years, seen this stuff come and go, they get bored with it and move on the the next game where they can get their intimidation power rush.

The last time we had any thing in our bio someone did not like it and War Deced us because they did not like our Bio.
So Bios are and shall remain empty, to avoid insulting anyone. How is that for playing the game the way someone else wants us to.

It's not an extortion scam. You are responsible for paying the appropriate fees when you choose to mine. Freedom isn't free.

Heh heh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#93 - 2013-10-05 18:19:34 UTC
Danial Boone wrote:
Let me get this right,

I must pledge loyalty to an extortion scam.

Yes, I objected to it from the start

AND

I must pay someone to be able to mine rock/ice

Wow, who was I suppose to be paying when I started mining on 2003.05.11
Strange that no one has informed me of this some time in the last 10 years.

Just because you were unwittingly wrong before does not mean you should be knowingly wrong now. And it's your responsibility to find out the rules, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Danial Boone
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2013-10-05 18:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Danial Boone
YOUR ignorance ?? James Extortion Scam IS NOT the law....

If they had bothered to talk to me rather than just showing up and bumping/target locking us and then attempting to gank us, things would have turned out differently. I am all for taking out the macro and afk miners, however I do not take kindly to being bullied into doing anything.

Oh well, POS taken down, everyone docked. Starting a long break, since we can no longer mine in peace.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-10-05 19:16:28 UTC
Danial Boone wrote:
I had an encounter this evening with the http://www.minerbumping.com/
I read through their manifesto and beliefs that allow them to do what they are doing. “Ramblings of a madman” What they are doing is nothing short of a Mafia style protection scam. Pay us or -------

Sure 10 million isk is not all that much to pay – yet you must display your New Order ID number in your bio (Badge of Shame) for them to leave you alone.

No matter how eloquent their verbiage and solidly based on what they can get away with, following current game mechanics, it is still bullying and intimidation of the populous of the EVE community.

Seeing how on line bullying is a major subject of disdain within the entire Internet Community, maybe CCP needs to take a look at this.

I am sure that I am not their first “Customer – forced to wear their badge of SHAME in my bio to prevent then from further intimidation.” and strengthen their community influence.


/c
Rhatar Khurin
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-10-05 19:30:17 UTC
So.. let me get this straight..

These guys are asking for peeps to buy "mining permits" or they don't "make violence on your boat" and peeps pay, but get blown up anyway.

So it's basically the same as ransoming a ship then not honouring the ransom.. i don't see a problem with this.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#97 - 2013-10-05 19:37:49 UTC
Emergent gameplay FTW

The Tears Must Flow
Rhatar Khurin
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-10-05 19:40:34 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Danial Boone wrote:
stuff


/c


The Capellan Confederation will take back our stolen worlds from you and your Davion allies!

*cough* anyway
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#99 - 2013-10-05 20:43:02 UTC
Danial Boone wrote:
YOUR ignorance ?? James Extortion Scam IS NOT the law....

If they had bothered to talk to me rather than just showing up and bumping/target locking us and then attempting to gank us, things would have turned out differently. I am all for taking out the macro and afk miners, however I do not take kindly to being bullied into doing anything.

Oh well, POS taken down, everyone docked. Starting a long break, since we can no longer mine in peace.


They would argue that it's the law everywhere within optimal + 2*falloff.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#100 - 2013-10-05 21:00:41 UTC
Rhatar Khurin wrote:
So.. let me get this straight..

These guys are asking for peeps to buy "mining permits" or they don't "make violence on your boat" and peeps pay, but get blown up anyway.

So it's basically the same as ransoming a ship then not honouring the ransom.. i don't see a problem with this.



To be fair it's more like someone paying the fee and then saying "I'm not going to take that ID card that says I paid!"

Then someone else saying "can I see yourID card and if you've paid" and the guy shouting "I DON'T HAVE ONE"

perfectly legit.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.