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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1021 - 2013-10-05 09:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
No to this Role Bonus: 25%(37.5) increase in Scan Prob Strength.
T1 explorer frigate has more than this.
37.5% is T1 skilled level 2 is 10% per level so over 50%
25% would be a murderous nerf and for absolutely no reason.
(Why do people want to kill these ships)
You seem to be trying to come up wth some reasonable middle ground, the problem is when others have made such extreme suggestions it makes it hard to be in the middle.

Lets hope Ccp rise steps in now,
Explorers want an exploration frigate and cruiser let us have it.
If other ships are overshadowed by them so be it.
People still use an imicus for exploration and aspire to a covert ops, for example.
Now they can have a covert ops and aspire to a asteros, or stay with the covert ops if it suits their needs.
There is no need to make the ships useless , they say ..because it... .... Nope still can't see the logic unless I had a big stock of covert ops ships or owned a BPO then i would try very hard to get them nerfed back into uselessness..

So ccp rise please make them awesome explorers. Give them the bonuses they need to explore and scan better than a T2 with a CORE probe launcher (do not give bonus to combat probes if that helps) let them access relic and data sites better than a t2 let them have drone resists against sleepers and be able to solo c3 sites with skill, (lots and lots and lots of skill in the asteros) let them have a big cargo hold to last days away from a base and to carry 2 or 3 space yurts and syphons.
Put special loot and goodies far far away deep into null to encourage explorers to really travel far from home. Put ancient sleeper stargates there that need explorer skills to open new areas, that no one has ever seen, etc etc.

Exploration if done well can be a whole new exciting addition to Eve that will appeal to those who do not want a carebear life but want more than just shallow pvp. These ships can be the first actual step where up to now it's been marketing.
Let them be great, let them shine!
Be awesome.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1022 - 2013-10-05 09:37:57 UTC


If I'm going to spend 4x the ISK on a factions ship, an “exploration themed” Sisters of Eve faction ship, I don't expect it to perform “well enough” in data and relic sites.
I expect it to be awesome.
And do you know how it looks right now?

Very disappointing.

Something has to change, either the new factions ships, the covert ops frigates or both.
Because if these ships are released as they are now I will not be exploring in them. They will be all but “obsolete” to me the moment they hit the market.[/quote]

Well put,

+1

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1023 - 2013-10-05 09:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Rek Seven wrote:
This is how i would like the cruiser to look:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% bonus to heavy and heavy assault missile launchers velocity
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +10 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices (assumed 100% cup reduction)

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout:54H, 5M, 5L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1900 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125/ 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

....................................................................................

The missile bonus matches one of those given to the sacrilege. Turret slots have be removed.

More virus strength means its as good as a t2 scanning ship at hacking but worse at probing.

end


Fixed

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1024 - 2013-10-05 09:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Rek Seven wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
This is how i would like the cruiser to look:

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% bonus to heavy and heavy assault misile launchers
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +15 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices (assumed 100% cup reduction)

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage, 15% reduction to drone signature

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 0 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1900 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125/ 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 700

....................................................................................

The missile bonus matches one of those given to the sacrilege. Turret slots have be removed.

More virus strength means its as good as a t2 at hacking but worse at probing.

end


Fixed

Break open the champagne and launch these ships.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1025 - 2013-10-05 09:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Blink i missed out the velocity part of the missile bonus. It's fixed now.

According to eft, this role bonus should allow it to do 197 dps with rage missiles at 25km. Add that to the 475 dps of ogres and you have a pretty nice ship.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1026 - 2013-10-05 09:54:17 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Machariel doesn't come from highsec agents, this does. If people can do fleet doctrines based on navy battleships, they can afford these.

I'm pretty sure no FC would engage a fleet of 400Misk ship with 45kehp of survivability.

And for those shocked by numbers, I'll quote myself and add that these ships too can get amazing numbers with some bling :
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
First, about the cloak delay : you can, in fact, gank people with no cloak at all. There is full killboards of such ganks. Yet ganking with a cloak is obviously easier. Therefor ganking with a cloak allow you to kill a lot of things. But the problem is more related to people not being at the command of their ship, or just being awfully bad, than because of OP cloak -- otherwise *nobody* would be ganked without cloak. That's the point in fact : a cloak cannot be OP just because you can do the same thing without it.

So, now, let's take care of the power thing with some OP fits.

[Exequror Navy Issue, OP Nexeq]

800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
750 dps (cold)/850 dps oh (a lot more applyable than ogre dps, and you can't overheat drones)
698m/s AB
1824m/s MWD
32kehp
4,5s align time
##########################
[Vexor Navy Issue, OP NVexor]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Ogre II x5
824 dps oh (808 cold), and these drones are better than those of the Stratios
577m/s AB
1482m/s MWD
50,5kehp
5,5s align time
#########################
I won't offend the EFT warriors here by shooting fits for every navy cruiser, you got the point : *exactly* as I said, any non T1 cruiser can either kill the Stratios or gtfo.

So, your "OP" 500Misk Stratios will gank afk frigates and T1 cruisers.

Wow, I'm so scared I wet my pants...

And the killing blow, a very, very bad Proteus fit :
[Proteus, cloaky-probe-gank]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Hobgoblin II x5
542 dps cold/608 oh
469m/s AB
1190m/s MWD
95kehp
And yes, cloak+probes, and the dps will be far more real than the ogres dps.

This oddity can take on a lot more ennemies than the Stratios can (simple dps/ehp ratio here, but we're talking brawlers, that's how they work), and have the same perks (or more, in fact, because with the new warp mecanic, this thing will warp faster :D). And yet, I haven't seen EVE turned into Proteus Online. And of course, this fit is so bad I'm pretty sure someone already have a way better fit for the job than this comedy fit.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1027 - 2013-10-05 10:02:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


If I'm going to spend 4x the ISK on a factions ship, an “exploration themed” Sisters of Eve faction ship, I don't expect it to perform “well enough” in data and relic sites.
I expect it to be awesome.
And do you know how it looks right now?

Very disappointing.

Something has to change, either the new factions ships, the covert ops frigates or both.
Because if these ships are released as they are now I will not be exploring in them. They will be all but “obsolete” to me the moment they hit the market.

Well put,

+1

And you really are stubborn : these ships are not only exploration ships, because they have combat capabilities. If you want to do only relic/data site exploration, the covops are better, and that's because this ship can ALSO do combat sites.

You're not supposed to do everything in the same ship. Why would you deserve a ship better than covops at exploring AND as capable for combat site than a BC ? THAT would not be balanced, as opposed to what it is now despite frightening all the eft warriors here who don't have any clue about the capabilities of other ships.

BTW, you are free not to fly these ships if you are not good enough to explore with a +5 bonus to virus, but badness never have been a reason to buff a ship. Not to mention that people expected the Dominix to be utterly useless after its balancing pass, and they couldn't have been more wrong. So players expectation vs actual testing....
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1028 - 2013-10-05 10:09:19 UTC
Unless it comes with a tow rope and a ship hanger in the space yurt, yes the explorer is meant to be capable of exploring and doing combat sites,

So i am 50 jumps from the nearest station, ooh a nice site just let me jump 50 jumps to go and get my PvE ship and 50 jumps back then swap again after.

Stubborn? Hell yes!

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1029 - 2013-10-05 10:14:46 UTC
You sacrifice functionality for versatility. It can do 3/10-6/10s, relic and data sites without the need to reship. A T3 can do 10/10 but not relic and data sites also, a covert ops frigate will excel at doing relic ad data sites but cannot touch combat sites.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1030 - 2013-10-05 10:22:09 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Just a minor detail question, what flavor of sensors do these have? Radar or Magnetometric? I have one trained, just wondering if I should put the other in queue.


All the other mixed race ones go by their main weapon type so being drones I guess gal/mag though its a bit less clear on this one which it should be.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1031 - 2013-10-05 10:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
You sacrifice functionality for versatility.


I think the ship is supposed to be functional and versatile.

Epicurus is right. If the cruiser can fit the yurt in its cargo, it will be able to fill its exploration role perfectly... Probably the reason for the large cargo bay.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1032 - 2013-10-05 10:40:47 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
You sacrifice functionality for versatility.


I think the ship is supposed to be functional and versatile.

Epicurus is right. If the cruiser can fit the yurt in its cargo, it will be able to fill its exploration role perfectly... Probably the reason for the large cargo bay.

I'm glad you're not game designer...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1033 - 2013-10-05 10:49:40 UTC
Putting ship stats and ETF builds aside for a few minutes I statred thinking about where the Stratios was designed to be used. It happens to be low-sec.
It was designed to do 6/10 complexes which are the hardest that low sec can get.(according to eve wiki that is)
The +5 Virus strength (while functional in null) is plenty for low sec.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1034 - 2013-10-05 11:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
You sacrifice functionality for versatility. It can do 3/10-6/10s, relic and data sites without the need to reship. A T3 can do 10/10 but not relic and data sites also, a covert ops frigate will excel at doing relic ad data sites but cannot touch combat sites.

You seem to be the leading member of the covert ops protection society,
I am sure you will correct me if i am wrong but the covert ops ship has a role in hotdrops, spying,safepoint marking, and generally scouting.
The hacking and relic bonus was grafted on to give it some additional use as players got bored waiting for their time to get called and something to do to make a bit of isk.
It is as natural a fit as wheels on a fish.
The covert ops role is not really enough to justify the purchase price for some players, so it was given a shiny.

This does not give users of them an entitlement to be the only one with a bonus.
Combining comments, exploration is not wandering around a little ribbon between hi sec and nullsec, that is a boy scouts day trip in comparison to exploration

You clearly do not want explorers to have these ships in a useable form.
We want them.
Others want to blow the hell out of your covert ops in an exploration site.
There is nothing else to say.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1035 - 2013-10-05 11:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
You sacrifice functionality for versatility. It can do 3/10-6/10s, relic and data sites without the need to reship. A T3 can do 10/10 but not relic and data sites also, a covert ops frigate will excel at doing relic ad data sites but cannot touch combat sites.

You seem to be the leading member of the covert ops protection society,
I am sure you will correct me if i am wrong but the covert ops ship has a role in hotdrops, spying,safepoint marking, and generally scouting.
The hacking and relic bonus was grafted on to give it some additional use as players got bored waiting for their time to get called and something to do to make a bit of isk.
It is as natural a fit as wheels on a fish.
The covert ops role is not really enough to justify the purchase price for some players, so it was given a shiny.

This does not give users of them an entitlement to be the only one with a bonus.
Combining comments, exploration is not wandering around a little ribbon between hi sec and nullsec, that is a boy scouts day trip in comparison to exploration

You clearly do not want explorers to have these ships in a useable form.
We want them.
Others want to blow the hell out of your covert ops in an exploration site.
There is nothing else to say.

ISD will delete my post if i say what I want to say so I will say this.
Good luck with EvE.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sir Mattsimus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1036 - 2013-10-05 11:39:31 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

BTW, you are free not to fly these ships if you are not good enough to explore with a +5 bonus to virus, but badness never have been a reason to buff a ship. Not to mention that people expected the Dominix to be utterly useless after its balancing pass, and they couldn't have been more wrong. So players expectation vs actual testing....


+5 virus strength is not good enough for null. And yes I saw Omnathious Deninard's post of his experiment on Sisi. One site is hardly conclusive evidence and judging by the number of unexplored nodes in some of his screenshots it's seems to me that he got very lucky straight line solutions. Nullsec relic and data sites are brutal, +5 virus strength is not good enough.

Bouh Revetoile wrote:

You're not supposed to do everything in the same ship. Why would you deserve a ship better than covops at exploring AND as capable for combat site than a BC ?


Then what am I paying faction ship prices for?

CCP Rise wrote:

...ships that are themed around exploration and therefor make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking...


I thought that's what I was paying extra for.

Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Putting ship stats and ETF builds aside for a few minutes I statred thinking about where the Stratios was designed to be used. It happens to be low-sec.
It was designed to do 6/10 complexes which are the hardest that low sec can get.(according to eve wiki that is)
The +5 Virus strength (while functional in null) is plenty for low sec.


If this is all the ships are designed for than it's very disappointing and I won't be using them.
I run relic and data sites whilst saving the locations of combat sites. After I have saved the locations of a few or find a particularly good one I notify my corpmates and return home and reship into something that best suits those sites. If my corpmates are interested we form a gang to blitz them one after the other. I find doing these sites solo to be far less efficient, less profitable and far more dangerous.

“ships that are themed around exploration” that are only “well enough” for null relic and data sites seems wrong.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1037 - 2013-10-05 12:03:00 UTC
Sir Mattsimus wrote:
+5 virus strength is not good enough for null. And yes I saw Omnathious Deninard's post of his experiment on Sisi. One site is hardly conclusive evidence and judging by the number of unexplored nodes in some of his screenshots it's seems to me that he got very lucky straight line solutions. Nullsec relic and data sites are brutal, +5 virus strength is not good enough.

If you dont think that i had to attack nodes you are gravely mistaken. There is a patten that all those sites conform to and once you learn it they are quite easy. Yes i know the placement and type on nodes are random but there is still a system to where the data core will be.
Sir Mattsimus wrote:

If this is all the ships are designed for than it's very disappointing and I won't be using them.
I run relic and data sites whilst saving the locations of combat sites. After I have saved the locations of a few or find a particularly good one I notify my corpmates and return home and reship into something that best suits those sites. If my corpmates are interested we form a gang to blitz them one after the other. I find doing these sites solo to be far less efficient, less profitable and far more dangerous.

And here is the problem, these are SOLO ships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
m0jo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1038 - 2013-10-05 12:12:34 UTC
Hey CCP Rise, awesome ships!!

However is there anyway you can give the frigate same offensive bonus as the cruiser? It would be better imo. 20% drone hp is just blah without a bit of dps.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1039 - 2013-10-05 12:19:51 UTC
m0jo wrote:
Hey CCP Rise, awesome ships!!

However is there anyway you can give the frigate same offensive bonus as the cruiser? It would be better imo. 20% drone hp is just blah without a bit of dps.


I can imagine that they are a bit hesitant about this. At present, no frigate exists that is capable of flying a full flight of drones AND using a cov ops cloak simultaneously. The precedent is more or less set for cruisers already, but the Stratios has more, and look what a fuss that is causing.

I'd just like to see a third highslot and another turret hardpoint.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#1040 - 2013-10-05 12:20:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
m0jo wrote:
Hey CCP Rise, awesome ships!!

However is there anyway you can give the frigate same offensive bonus as the cruiser? It would be better imo. 20% drone hp is just blah without a bit of dps.


I can imagine that they are a bit hesitant about this. At present, no frigate exists that is capable of flying a full flight of drones AND using a cov ops cloak simultaneously. The precedent is more or less set for cruisers already, but the Stratios has more, and look what a fuss that is causing.

I'd just like to see a third highslot and another turret hardpoint.

Same

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=