These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#901 - 2013-10-04 19:13:50 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Soko Lsi
SASART Corporation
#902 - 2013-10-04 19:16:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.


It's not a problem at all. I think other people have pointed that 10 would encroach on the frigs space. 5 is perfect.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#903 - 2013-10-04 19:18:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.

Totally correct.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#904 - 2013-10-04 19:21:15 UTC
Soko Lsi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.


It's not a problem at all. I think other people have pointed that 10 would encroach on the frigs space. 5 is perfect.


Yeesh, I am so sick of this "but X steps on the toes of Y" nonsense. Stop defending your own little bagwa and see the big picture.

10 would encroach on the frigates space, yes. But 5 is worthless due to the nature of data and relic sites not having rats anymore. The ONLY consideration is how fast you can do them. That means virus strength. And seeing as a T2 cov ops frigate runs pretty damn cheap, if this cruiser cannot compete, it may as well not even try.

Thanks to the way the minigame works, and the lack of any other consideration in relic and data sites, it's +10 or it might as well be 0.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sieonigh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#905 - 2013-10-04 19:22:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.


why not 7.5?

or does it have to be whole numbers? in which case 8
Soko Lsi
SASART Corporation
#906 - 2013-10-04 19:24:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yeesh, I am so sick of this "but X steps on the toes of Y" nonsense. Stop defending your own little bagwa and see the big picture.



Yes, lets throw away the big CCP plan for tiericide in the bin. Lets not consider relations between classes.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#907 - 2013-10-04 19:25:15 UTC
Sieonigh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.


why not 7.5?

or does it have to be whole numbers? in which case 8


The minigame is in multiples of 5. Any number above 5 is functionally 10.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#908 - 2013-10-04 19:27:20 UTC
The scan frigates speciality is probing not hacking. There is nothing wrong with giving soe ships more virus strength, it just makes them better for their intended role.

Ps. For those who don't know their ship, every pirate faction can equal or out perform their t2/t2 counterpart in some way.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#909 - 2013-10-04 19:27:32 UTC
Soko Lsi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yeesh, I am so sick of this "but X steps on the toes of Y" nonsense. Stop defending your own little bagwa and see the big picture.



Yes, lets throw away the big CCP plan for tiericide in the bin. Lets not consider relations between classes.


Because you totally actually have a clue what any of that is, right? I mean, it certainly cannot be the case that no information whatsoever has been released about the eventual place that T2 cov ops frigates will hold. Goodness knows you aren't just talking out your ass when you say that, right?

Look at reality once in a while, it's refreshing. The nature of the minigame is very binary now that rats are gone from the sites, and it's possible to destroy the loot inside if you fail. +10 or go home.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Soko Lsi
SASART Corporation
#910 - 2013-10-04 19:31:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Soko Lsi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yeesh, I am so sick of this "but X steps on the toes of Y" nonsense. Stop defending your own little bagwa and see the big picture.



Yes, lets throw away the big CCP plan for tiericide in the bin. Lets not consider relations between classes.


Because you totally actually have a clue what any of that is, right? I mean, it certainly cannot be the case that no information whatsoever has been released about the eventual place that T2 cov ops frigates will hold. Goodness knows you aren't just talking out your ass when you say that, right?

Look at reality once in a while, it's refreshing. The nature of the minigame is very binary now that rats are gone from the sites, and it's possible to destroy the loot inside if you fail. +10 or go home.


You are quite obnoxious... and yes we do know the stats of the CURRENT ships. I doubt they will turn them into command ships or titans when tiericide reaches them. Don't be an ass.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#911 - 2013-10-04 19:35:32 UTC
Soko Lsi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Soko Lsi wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yeesh, I am so sick of this "but X steps on the toes of Y" nonsense. Stop defending your own little bagwa and see the big picture.



Yes, lets throw away the big CCP plan for tiericide in the bin. Lets not consider relations between classes.


Because you totally actually have a clue what any of that is, right? I mean, it certainly cannot be the case that no information whatsoever has been released about the eventual place that T2 cov ops frigates will hold. Goodness knows you aren't just talking out your ass when you say that, right?

Look at reality once in a while, it's refreshing. The nature of the minigame is very binary now that rats are gone from the sites, and it's possible to destroy the loot inside if you fail. +10 or go home.


You are quite obnoxious... and yes we do know the stats of the CURRENT ships. I doubt they will turn them into command ships or titans when tiericide reaches them. Don't be an ass.


Why talk tiericide, and then jabber on about the current stats? That makes no sense at all, now you are just backpedaling. When I tell people to quit whining about the cruiser "steps on the toes" of the Ishtar/cov ops, all they can muster is to spout the word "tiericide" at me? Rather sad, if you ask me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sieonigh
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#912 - 2013-10-04 19:41:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sieonigh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Astero remarks:
IMHO giving the Astero 10 virus strength will obsolete the cov-ops for exploration. If want to do something very specific, like only run data sites, you need a very specialized ship => T2. Pirate ships should be more general than T2, hence worse for very very specific stuff.


The major problem with that, as I see it, is the total seesaw in regards to virus strength, everywhere but highsec.

It's either +10 or go home. That's the problem here, all or nothing.


why not 7.5?

or does it have to be whole numbers? in which case 8


The minigame is in multiples of 5. Any number above 5 is functionally 10.


ah i see then that would not work, oh well never mind
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#913 - 2013-10-04 19:47:19 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:

- For PVP this is wildly OP compared to every other cloaky ship.


Other cloaky ships have yet to be rebalanced, so we don't know what direction CCP will be taking Recons and BLOPs.



Trii Seo wrote:

The 5s delay is crippling in every theory, yet many still die to cynoing recons and cloaky T3s, which share the same penalty....

Cloaky T3s have 4x the EHP, cloaky recons have ~2-3x the EHP.
The difference is the fact that the Stratios has little tank in this crackpot shield fit, and can dish it out but not take it.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#914 - 2013-10-04 19:58:08 UTC
The only valid reason for forceing a 5% virus strength on these exploration ships is that they are not meant to be exploration ships.
5% is a car with 2 wheels or a boat without a floor.
The covert ops ship is more than just a ship for relic and data sites, the ability was grafted on to make them more useful, it does not mean they should be the only ships that function outside of hisec.

They have not had their rebalancing yet. So crippling these with that as an excuse is just plain wrong unless you are the owner of a covert ops BPO and then i can see your point.

Without a minimum of 10% virus strength CCP should just give up and make them a normal pirate ship and give up on the whole SOE thing.

Is that what you want?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#915 - 2013-10-04 19:58:40 UTC
First, about the cloak delay : you can, in fact, gank people with no cloak at all. There is full killboards of such ganks. Yet ganking with a cloak is obviously easier. Therefor ganking with a cloak allow you to kill a lot of things. But the problem is more related to people not being at the command of their ship, or just being awfully bad, than because of OP cloak -- otherwise *nobody* would be ganked without cloak. That's the point in fact : a cloak cannot be OP just because you can do the same thing without it.

So, now, let's take care of the power thing with some OP fits.

[Exequror Navy Issue, OP Nexeq]

800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
750 dps (cold)/850 dps oh (a lot more applyable than ogre dps, and you can't overheat drones)
698m/s AB
1824m/s MWD
32kehp
4,5s align time
##########################
[Vexor Navy Issue, OP NVexor]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Ogre II x5
824 dps oh (808 cold), and these drones are better than those of the Stratios
577m/s AB
1482m/s MWD
50,5kehp
5,5s align time
#########################
I won't offend the EFT warriors here by shooting fits for every navy cruiser, you got the point : *exactly* as I said, any non T1 cruiser can either kill the Stratios or gtfo.

So, your "OP" 500Misk Stratios will gank afk frigates and T1 cruisers.

Wow, I'm so scared I wet my pants...

And the killing blow, a very, very bad Proteus fit :
[Proteus, cloaky-probe-gank]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Hobgoblin II x5
542 dps cold/608 oh
469m/s AB
1190m/s MWD
95kehp
And yes, cloak+probes, and the dps will be far more real than the ogres dps.

This oddity can take on a lot more ennemies than the Stratios can (simple dps/ehp ratio here, but we're talking brawlers, that's how they work), and have the same perks (or more, in fact, because with the new warp mecanic, this thing will warp faster :D). And yet, I haven't seen EVE turned into Proteus Online. And of course, this fit is so bad I'm pretty sure someone already have a way better fit for the job than this comedy fit.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#916 - 2013-10-04 20:04:20 UTC
Doing an experiment on Sisi, will post results with pictures when I get home.

I am in null sec with a rookie ship fitted with a T1 probe launcher, Standard scanner probes, a T1 relic and data analyzer.

I have successfully scanned down a relic site.

I will post progress pictures when I can get back home.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#917 - 2013-10-04 20:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Doing an experiment on Sisi, will post results with pictures when I get home.

I am in null sec with a rookie ship fitted with a T1 probe launcher, Standard scanner probes, a T1 relic and data analyzer.

I have successfully scanned down a relic site.

I will post progress pictures when I can get back home.

Scanning them down is easy
The mini game is not
And i seem to remember your skills are all at 5?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#918 - 2013-10-04 20:13:12 UTC
Oh, sorry, I forgot about the "obsoloeted" Gila :
[Gila, OPGila]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Shield Extender II
10MN Microwarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Warp Scrambler II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Ogre II x5

829dps (cold)
1521m/s MWD
50kehp
5,9s align time

No AB but oops, I killed your Stratios...
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#919 - 2013-10-04 20:16:23 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:


~Lots of fits~

And the killing blow, a very, very bad Proteus fit :
[Proteus, cloaky-probe-gank]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
10MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor


Hobgoblin II x5
542 dps cold/608 oh
469m/s AB
1190m/s MWD
95kehp
And yes, cloak+probes, and the dps will be far more real than the ogres dps.

This oddity can take on a lot more ennemies than the Stratios can (simple dps/ehp ratio here, but we're talking brawlers, that's how they work), and have the same perks (or more, in fact, because with the new warp mecanic, this thing will warp faster :D). And yet, I haven't seen EVE turned into Proteus Online. And of course, this fit is so bad I'm pretty sure someone already have a way better fit for the job than this comedy fit.


Cloaky Prot with only 4 guns??? Blasphemy! With 5 guns you're looking at 675 DPS cold, assuming my math is right.


3-4x the EHP of a Stratios, 70% of the supposed DPS, and a similar cost (we'll see how much it ends up costing).
The Stratios is clearly not as OP as the EFT warriors seem to believe.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#920 - 2013-10-04 20:19:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
This thing is not overpowered. Very few people will realistically fly the 16k EHP glass cannon fit. The few who do will learn the problem with it quickly. I love how people ignore the lock time delay and the lack of damage application to anything below Battleship-class ships.

The reason it is considered OP right now is it is to good of a hunter ship


That's really the point of this. To be good at hunting down and killing stuff.

And I'm pretty sure - at least, I hope CCP ignores the idiots throwing around Ogre DPS numbers saying :it gets 800 DPS" when in reality probably only half of that is effective DPS. And even that's with a glass cannon fit.