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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Asking for feedback on Certificate visibility

First post
Author
Anthar Thebess
#281 - 2013-09-25 13:47:15 UTC
Rethink all certificates.
I think i saw some notifications on one of my chars that over 90 certificates are claimable. ( and i click there from time to time , to stop this spam)

There is to much of those certificates - simplify them, and limit their numbers.

For example:
Gallente (Battle)cruiser Basic
- med guns and all needed skills to lvl 3

Gallente Battlecruiser Standard
- t2 guns / t2 res / support skills lvl 4

Gallente Battlecruiser Advanced
- all T2 / all support skills lvl 5

Support skills for me are all connected to cap/powergrid/speed/damage.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#282 - 2013-09-26 02:06:50 UTC
If players weren't so focused on having complete access to all your information whenever you apply to a Corp or Alliance, then certificates might be more relevant. As is, they are not, and whatever you do with them is likely a waste of time. They are a cool, (and I mean relatively interesting), feature, but there is no specific use for them in the game.

I don't see any point in wasting time on them.
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Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#283 - 2013-09-27 05:51:11 UTC
Can someone explain to me why I have to "claim" a certificate that really doesn't do anything?
ArchenTheGreat
Interstellar Clone Transport
#284 - 2013-09-27 16:18:00 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
Can someone explain to me why I have to "claim" a certificate that really doesn't do anything?


Probably to avoid server overload. If you have to claim certifate it is an single action started by you. Claiming certificate by server require some sort of a worker thread which periodically claimes them. Of course there are ways to avoid this problem* but CCP is too lazy to implement it. I see this pattern in many different places.

*server could claim all certificates on login and after login your client can periodically check if they are ready to claim and inform server.
Lukas Langeheuvel
Port Avalon Enterprises
#285 - 2013-09-27 16:40:16 UTC
Making certificates public to me is giving away information about your character to everyone. Alot of people would not do that. If you can set the visibility to just your corp/alliance, it would be pretty good so everyone can keep tabs on what their corp/alliance mates can do.
Jaz Antollare
UrAnus Probing Squad
#286 - 2013-09-27 21:43:08 UTC
I like the first 3 Ideas,

don't show them publicly

Drag them into text

and look at them on permission!
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#287 - 2013-09-30 23:49:59 UTC
Why remove the option to set certificates public?
This is disappointing to me since I like to set all my Elite certificates public so that people know I am better than they are.

I don't see any reason to remove the functionality, it's not like the system forces you to make them public if you don't want to.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Yolo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#288 - 2013-10-03 08:55:42 UTC
I like certificates being possible to set as public, so people can view how awesome I am. ;)

However, what I find more important is that custom certificates can be designed for recruitment situations for example.
We recuire that you have "this" certificate (custom group of skills), the recruit claims the certificate (from link) and then re-posts it as where it displays as claimed eg; the recruit has the base skills required.

This could in turn allow for custom roles based on corporation certificates, when you have capital and jumpskills, you get access to hangar 4 which is fuel hangar, as an example.

Other than that, I would expect that career choices are introduced that are more inline with what people do.
One thing I would like to enlighten is the usage of refining skills as a pre-requisit for t2 mining crystals and mining certificates.

refining is not equal to mining, its like if your production required your science to be maxed, or missiles for gunnery skills.
They are similar, but they are not related in such a way that it is defendable to force players to train refining skills, allow it to be a specialization for those who want to be good at refining.

Also, as always before, I have always thought that spacship command and advanced spaceship command along with navigation should be the skills that determines if you can fly a given ship. While all other skills are focused on bonuses to make the ship usable to its full potential. eg; the only required prerequisit should be spacehip command (t1) or advanced spacehip command (t2) and navigation (class dependant).

- since 2003, bitches

Rykki Atruin
Independant Praetorian Corp
#289 - 2013-10-04 13:28:58 UTC
As a 4 month old player I can say that the "Core Competency" certificates were very useful to me. I really like the idea of having a clear way to see just how well (or not) I'm flying that new battleship, because let's be honest the first time I sat in a BS I was way underskilled and did better damage with a battlecruiser.

Now that I have a better idea of what my skill goals are (EveMon FTW) I still find myself recommending to all new corp members to get their "Core Competency - Basic" cert as soon as possible followed very shortly with either the armor or shield defense cert.

TL;DR
Certs are awesome for new players like me.
Barzhad
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#290 - 2013-10-17 08:01:34 UTC
I think the mature thing on CCP's side would be to yield to the masses and admitting that certificates have no value.
not only they are pretty useless for recruiters, ship-fitting and bragging they are pretty obsolete with the revised skill tree from Odyssey where all the skills make perfect sense in their categories and people would skill according the skill group. for example: I fly Minmatar. so, that usually speed and shields, no? let's see what we have in the shield and navigation skill categories - this is much more informative.
also, some certs are misleading you to think that the skills that are required to obtain them are all equally important, like Core Competency has targeting skills, this is so not necessary to be a competent pilot compared to, say, CPU management.
this is a very generic and not very effective way of prioritizing skills. every non-noob pilot can go over the list in EVEmon and see for himself what he needs and prioritize better. this besicaly makes the certs only relevant to newbies but after a few weeks they too will move on to evemon and forget about them.
Silent Cyborg
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#291 - 2013-10-17 23:39:51 UTC
Well I have been avoiding this forum because of not knowing how to respond about certificates with out insulting CCP more so then I do on any good day.

CCP take a look at the web site www.fleet-up.com then load a fitting in to the web site and see how effective your toon is in that ship. Look at the amazing work put in to calculate how well you are in that ship.

Right now take what you seen and imbed it in to game as certificates or the Mastery lvl on the ship. Much better and more useful. then put in a system that if I was assisting a fellow corp mate in fitting a ship that when I link up my fit he/she can see how effective they would be in that ship.

The system for this is already around and you really wouldn't have to actually do much work to bring it in to game.

as for certificates as they are and the 'Mastery' system your introducing they suck balls as according to the test server my alt is lvl2 mastery for a few battle cruisers such are the drake.

Slight problem........He doesn't have Caldri Battlecruiser trained???? shouldn't I be able to fly the ship as part of the mastery? FAIL!


Krios42
Krios42's Retirement Home
#292 - 2013-10-20 22:35:59 UTC
I think removal of the the option to make them visible. It's not really a bragging thing, and if anything, could give a hostile information on your abilities. If people want to make that public, they can hand out API keys, or use eveboard.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#293 - 2013-10-25 01:33:03 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Why remove the option to set certificates public?
This is disappointing to me since I like to set all my Elite certificates public so that people know I am better than they are.

I don't see any reason to remove the functionality, it's not like the system forces you to make them public if you don't want to.


I have elite certs, and there's lots of people better than me. Lol
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Sky Falcorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#294 - 2013-10-26 16:54:52 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance – this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)

  • Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own



  • i would like to have the ability to create custom certificates\certificate lists.
    this could be used to allow other players "sign" them which would show if the signing character has or has not the skills needed for this certificate.

    should be usable not only by corp\alliance , but by any private person\community to verify if respondents answer to certain criteria
    Sarah Stallman
    Pen2 Logistics
    #295 - 2013-10-26 17:23:08 UTC
    Personally, I don't really see the intelligence problem with certs being public. For anyone who would care, you can get a better idea of their skills by looking at their lost fits on kill boards.
    Felo Maxun
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #296 - 2013-11-10 16:24:52 UTC
    I would like them to remain public, or atleast visible to corperation members, might be a bit more of a useful option. Its not jsut about bragging rites, its also a good internal intel tool and handy for recruiting low sp pilots into training corps.
    Karle Tabot
    Wormlife Freeport Operations
    Wormlife
    #297 - 2013-11-10 18:49:09 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hello folks,

    We have long term plans to improve Certificates as a whole and we would appreciate your input regarding their public visibility. At the moment it is possible to set individual certificates as public by going into your character sheet, under the Certificates > Permissions Tab.


    Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:


    • Remove the ability to set Certificates as public

    • Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance – this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)

    • Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own

    • For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but don’t mention to which fields they apply – for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.


    Would you feel comfortable with any of these options? Which ones do you like? Options outside that list may be considered as well, if expressed in a constructive manner.


    As another topic for you guys to voice your feedback to, what information would you feel worried about if it was displayed as public by default and why?


    In all cases, please note all of this remains high-level conceptual work that is in no way set in stone or even planned for the immediate future, which is why we are asking for your input in the first place.

    Many thanks for your time.



    Please do not display any additional information about my characters by default, specifically including, but not limited to, the state of my certificates.

    I pay to play a game here, and I should be the one making these decisions about my character information, and not you.
    Chanina
    ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
    #298 - 2013-11-12 08:35:39 UTC
    Making certificates public isn't used much, don't want to tell your enemy how good you are right?
    Viewable on permission sounds good.

    A simple "Corp only" might be good too especially for trainee corporations. By default it should be off.

    - remove public | yes
    - drag and drop certificates | a fine idea
    - comparing | good one
    - for bragging | not needed, should be opt in but default hidden.
    Varenth Esher
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #299 - 2013-11-12 20:26:15 UTC
    I'm sorry I don't really have the spare time to read more than the OP, but I did want to jump in and voice my take on the subject.

    I use certificates to be able to prove to others that I do in fact have the required skills for certain roles/ships/mods without having to show them all my skills through an api. It allows me to boast some of my skill set while allowing for the ability to keep hidden other aspects of my characters.
    Chris Carlyle
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #300 - 2013-11-19 11:39:02 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hello folks,

    We have long term plans to improve Certificates as a whole and we would appreciate your input regarding their public visibility. At the moment it is possible to set individual certificates as public by going into your character sheet, under the Certificates > Permissions Tab.


    Initial research has shown a low usage of characters set Certificates as public, we thus are considering the following options:


    • Remove the ability to set Certificates as public

    • Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance – this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)

    • Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own

    • For bragging rights, display unlocked Certificates publicly on all character show info, but don’t mention to which fields they apply – for instance, running a show info on character A would list this pilot has 53 Certificates to Elite, 24 to Standard, but do not allow me to know their names or related skills.


    Would you feel comfortable with any of these options? Which ones do you like? Options outside that list may be considered as well, if expressed in a constructive manner.


    As another topic for you guys to voice your feedback to, what information would you feel worried about if it was displayed as public by default and why?


    In all cases, please note all of this remains high-level conceptual work that is in no way set in stone or even planned for the immediate future, which is why we are asking for your input in the first place.

    Many thanks for your time.


    I'm still a bit of a rookie and I love the certificates, because they give me an idea of what skills I need to get info.
    I do not, however, share all of them them publicly. Certificates can easily reveal PvP relevant information and allows hostile forces to take advantages of the 'gaps' in my combat training.

    My list would look like this:

    • Don't remove the ability to set Certificates as public, but make it opt-in.

    • Offer the ability to drag and drop individual Certificates, or a whole Certificate profile from a character into any kind of text input field (conversation channels or EVE mails for instance – this already is possible for individual Certificates from the planner)

    • Offer means to compare Certificates with a particular individual that give you permission with your own

    Do you know who's going to inherit New Eden? Arms dealers. Because everyone else is too busy killing each other.