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[Rubicon] Interceptors

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Capqu
Half Empty
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#201 - 2013-10-04 10:46:24 UTC
fleet bonuses and lock range - you claim links / the leadership skill will overcome the lock range issue, but a reasonable interceptor cannot rely on that.
you will often be the first and only person into a system where you have to tackle someone (and surely, isn't this part of the interceptors intended role?) and thus not be receiving links or bonuses of any kind. since you have to fit in advance and cover all bases, there is no point in even mentioning links / sensor skill with regard to interceptors

its not a tradeoff when every single interceptor pilot fits 2 ionics or a sig amp, it just feels like bringing your ship to something that really should be baseline on the t2 class which is designed to be the best tackle in the game. all you are doing by keeping lock range low on the fleet tackle interceptors is removing customization options for a class which already hurts in that area

now im not advocating a huge buff, the interdiction nullification thing is insanely good and cuts down on scouting times massively plus the warp speed changes in ruby-con are hugely beneficial for interceptors. but please for the love of god, the quality of life change every interceptor pilot has been asking for is lock range, if you feel you have to tone down something else to give the tackle interceptors 35km base lock then so be it but don't pigeonhole them into fitting targeting range mods and act like its a cool tradeoff choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2013-10-04 10:47:04 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
So besides this super shuttle and super t2 ship, what else does this ship bring to the field?

What new role will this ship provide? None. T3 nullified already exists

maybe the interceptor gets a special mod that is able to point supers. Make them useful beyond conventional. It cannot deploy a field but a point that goes through the ewar invulnerability


I would nto count with that for long.. tiercide will eventually reach T3....


And those things will be obliterared..

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#203 - 2013-10-04 10:59:20 UTC
Love the changes

But give me more lock range Evil
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#204 - 2013-10-04 11:47:52 UTC
Why split bonus to ARES? Better make it missile boat instead. Would be interesting.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#205 - 2013-10-04 11:57:28 UTC
oh hey i just noticed the -2 turrets on the malediction

please don't do that, being able to fit 125mm gattlings to kill drones was a nice option if you went with a dual prop fleet fit or something, it lacks fitting to do the same with rockets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Mra Rednu
Oyonata Gate Defence Force.
#206 - 2013-10-04 12:11:14 UTC
Ametyste Aek wrote:

I'd love to see racial bonuses for inties :

- Caldari : Bonus to lock range & scan res
- Minmatar : Further decrease in signature while in MWD
- Gallente : Bonus to Disrupt range
- Amarr : Bonus to armor reps (allong with the current +4% resist)

This way you create diverse platforms, allowing a real choice and gameplay difference between them. Note that these are just proposition i though and should be brainstormed & considered, don't start arguing about why such bonus would be op and another useless, i brought these to make this point : InterRAcial Hull comformity is boring as ****, it doesn't bring anything to the table but a best in class performer in its intended role. Specialize further each hulls so they can bring something different.


I will support this if all you ever fly is Amarr inties only from now on. Twisted
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#207 - 2013-10-04 12:57:56 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
The light missile condor was completely dominating facwar frigate pvp(and still kinda is) especially with links which made it able to orbit so far out and become so fast noone could ever hope of slingshotting it. Now you're making 3 ships that are essentially linked condors with the ganglinked point built into the hull. For the sake of the lowsec frigate community, which is huge atm, please rethink this.


Fozzie, about 6 months ago:

Quote:
Some of you will notice that there are certain imbalances that these changes do not fully rectify (for instance the current strength of light missile speed fits, the slight relative weakness of the Rifter, Breacher and the solo Punisher). We're hoping to smooth out a few of the rough edges via stat changes to the ships themselves, while some others will be addressed via changes to other parts of the metagame.




Light missiles would not be the only issue. While I was in factional warfare I put together another version of what would be a fleet of Crows. This was WAY BACK. I Theory crafted a Rail-Raptor setup that was capable of applying 75 damage per second up to 50,000m. I used rigs to increase locking range and added 2 Keres. Needless to say it was VERY EFFECTIVE. Rail-Harpies would probably still be better...

Anyway.

Unlike the other combat Interceptors the Raptor has MORE OPTION and circumvent anything significant done to "light missile interceptor setups". Not to mention with one MSE and blasters I'm fairly sure it would be capable of engaging A Lot more targets than any other interceptor based just on MORE TANK PLUS DAMAGE.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#208 - 2013-10-04 13:05:42 UTC
Capqu wrote:
fleet bonuses and lock range - you claim links / the leadership skill will overcome the lock range issue, but a reasonable interceptor cannot rely on that.
you will often be the first and only person into a system where you have to tackle someone (and surely, isn't this part of the interceptors intended role?) and thus not be receiving links or bonuses of any kind. since you have to fit in advance and cover all bases, there is no point in even mentioning links / sensor skill with regard to interceptors

its not a tradeoff when every single interceptor pilot fits 2 ionics or a sig amp, it just feels like bringing your ship to something that really should be baseline on the t2 class which is designed to be the best tackle in the game. all you are doing by keeping lock range low on the fleet tackle interceptors is removing customization options for a class which already hurts in that area

now i'm not advocating a huge buff, the interdiction nullification thing is insanely good and cuts down on scouting times massively plus the warp speed changes in ruby-con are hugely beneficial for interceptors. but please for the love of god, the quality of life change every interceptor pilot has been asking for is lock range, if you feel you have to tone down something else to give the tackle interceptors 35km base lock then so be it but don't pigeonhole them into fitting targeting range mods and act like its a cool tradeoff choice



This is my standard Stiletto setup. The locking range is 40,000m and has 1,400 scan resolution. I also have set up the Ares, Malediction and Raptor in a similar way. You're even able to drop that warp scrambler and fit a sensor booster for an even HIGHER scan resolution. What's this locking range issue you speak of?

[Stiletto, Switchblade]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Warp Disruptor II

150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Ionic Field Projector I
Small Targeting System Subcontroller I

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#209 - 2013-10-04 13:46:26 UTC
What if interceptors were immune to warp scrambling, but lost a slot in exchange?

You can still web/disrupt/neut/jam them, but you can't disable their MWD.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#210 - 2013-10-04 13:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Double post
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#211 - 2013-10-04 13:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Fozzie


1. Make the interdiction nulli be based on a RIG you can purchase and put on a interceptor only. This will cut down on some of the strength rigs will give this ship.

2. Make a warp disruptor mod that uses scripts that only a interceptor can use.

Scram Script- short range and 2 points

Disruptor script- Long Range 1 point

Focus Script- script like a focused beam can only be used on Titans and Super carriers

This will allow the captor to fit one mod freeing up other slots. he chooses what script based on course of action.

3. Defining the battle field is a must here. your changes are nice but the ship will still be useless in game except for a 0.0 to high sec shuttle. Any gang that roams the gates will kill this ship faster then his fleet can support him in his tackle ability.


1. This argument doesn't make any sense. Are you against the bubble immunity or would you rather it be a rig if it needed to exist. In rig form you're limiting the number of possible fitting combinations. Hush and enjoy the intercepting bonus lol

3. You know the game is in a sad state when people think like this. ANY good interceptor pilot (regardless of region) will tell you that these changes (in addition to the warp speed changes) are enormous boosts for fleet (big & small) or solo operations.

2. This isn't an awful idea, but we've already got this sort of thing for HICtors. IMO if something like the HICtor module were to be scaled down to frigate-sized combat, it would be for the Interdiction class and not something as fast and mobile as Interceptors.


1. I am not against the immunity. Just trying to create in game items for the market and make this change have a market impact out side of just the interceptor ship BPO. Do you own a tech 2 interceptor BPO? The rig will allow new players to enjoy the ability to come in on a ground level and compete making some isk. Also by making it a rig slot you give players a choice. It is a built in limiting factor the players control not ccp.

2. I think the immunity is not needed if you are a good interceptor pilot. Any interceptor pilot worth his weight survived with out this. The the majority of them don't die to bubbles. They die to ceptor traps. So let me paint you a picture. You are chasing this gang using the gates. Your ship goes directly to gate while everyone else hit a sling bubble or is caught in light doctor protecting the exit of this fleet. Yes you are gaining ground but you are also to far out for support. You catch said gang and die and then realize your gang you are tackling for is to far behing. I could go on. The other issues are the battle field has changed major fleets no longer use gates. Most small gangs are looking for a fight and having med or heavy tackle not catch tackle is more important. Also major fleets go from point A to point B. if they are going home gate to gate more then likely the person they were looking to fight will get a cyno ahead of them and drop them some where along there return home. Or they will use a JB network to get in front. I could continue but I suck a typing . Defining a role for a game play that is no longer is a waste of time.

I will say my opinion is based of 0.0 only. This change will not effect low or highsec cause there are no bubbles. There are supers in those places that tend to get away with murder cause the only fear one ship the hic.

3. The current fighting is the reason for this change. Light dics have warp dist launcher, heavy dic have a focus or bubble module, ceptors have base tackle gear and not a role that another ship in the game can't do better for less isk. The thing these all have in common is they are design to tackle.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2013-10-04 13:50:54 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
What if interceptors were immune to warp scrambling, but lost a slot in exchange?

You can still web/disrupt/neut/jam them, but you can't disable their MWD.



Too powerful. Specially because the MWD shutdown is exaclty made to stop ultra fast ships.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2013-10-04 14:08:46 UTC
IrJosy wrote:
Is there a reason gallente, the drone race are getting missiles as an optional weapon system instead of drones?

Nullified interceptors, nullified cruisers, covert cloaks on everything, depots, nerfing RSB's, nerfing HIC's (and then buffing them back), new cloaky SOE ships, nerfing remote sensor boosters, and more. We get it. CCP has a hard on for cloaky black ops stuff.

Do interceptors really need bubble immunity though? At 5k m/s they can fly through a 20km bubble in 4 seconds or more typically half of a 20km bubble in 2 seconds to get to a gate. With bonuses and snake implants that just gets reduced. Do interceptors really need the bubble immunity to catch ships they are chasing after the warp speed acceleration changes?

All of these changes just make it harder and harder and harder to kill gankers. Gankers already show up to the fight at a huge advantage typically with speed and damage type if they think ahead and use ammo that aims for the resist hole of their prey.

How about some new ways to stop null sec gankers for once? A deployable web bubble or a deployable anti-cloak bubble would go miles for gate camps. As it stands now just about anything can get through any gate camp that isn't cowwarrior. I avoided 15 TEST in a dinky throw away vagabond with an improved cloak. At a certain point you need to give some equal tools to the counter-black ops people.


Nice to see GSF advocating a ganking nerf Shocked. Burn Jita and ministry of love good. null sec ganking bad? i can see why the Orwell references are so popular in your neck of the woods.
Maybe you should join an alliance with enough blues to provide decent intel or defence fleets......jesus i can't even continue with the sarcasm coz my stupid detection system overloaded.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#214 - 2013-10-04 14:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
Major Killz wrote:



This is my standard Stiletto setup. The locking range is 40,000m and has 1,400 scan resolution. I also have set up the Ares, Malediction and Raptor in a similar way. You're even able to drop that warp scrambler and fit a sensor booster for an even HIGHER scan resolution. What's this locking range issue you speak of?



all you have done here is prove you have no idea what you are talking about

40km lock range when you have a 36km point, can go 6kms^-1 heated and it takes a minimum of 2 seconds (server ticks) to lock and point a target is not enough

try actually flying an interceptor outside of EFT before you speak in balance threads about them, mr 34 lifetime interceptor kills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#215 - 2013-10-04 14:37:25 UTC
Now, Capqu and I are two different men/girls in regards to fitting ceptors. I like to be a **** and gatecamp lowsec gates with 4000 scanres ceptors with remote reps to catch shuttles and what not.
He likes to put a bit of buffer on his so it actually survives initial tackle and not die like a scrub like me.

Regardless he has a point for the lock range. We are supposed to be ahead of the fleet, interdiction nullification highlights this even more, but when bonuses are not applicable across systems you can't rely on ceptor pilots to take advantage of leadership skills or bonuses to accommodate their long warp disruption ability. In fact you are enforcing especially nullsec ceptor pilots that are part of any smaller to larger gang to -ALWAYS- fit modules to improve their locking range. There is not a question about it, it is simply not acceptable for you to have a lock range so close to your warp disruption range with the risk of letting targets get away.

The extra lock range fitting is no longer a choice, it's a must - and that's not adequate.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#216 - 2013-10-04 14:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Capqu wrote:
Major Killz wrote:



This is my standard Stiletto setup. The locking range is 40,000m and has 1,400 scan resolution. I also have set up the Ares, Malediction and Raptor in a similar way. You're even able to drop that warp scrambler and fit a sensor booster for an even HIGHER scan resolution. What's this locking range issue you speak of?



all you have done here is prove you have no idea what you are talking about

40km lock range when you have a 36km point, can go 6kms^-1 heated and it takes a minimum of 2 seconds (server ticks) to lock and point a target is not enough

try actually flying an interceptor outside of EFT before you speak in balance threads about them, mr 34 lifetime interceptor kills



ROFL. Is there any other way to fly than inside THA EFT? I'm actually laughing really hard. GF GF GF.

Ok you have convinced me= )

I am NOW IN FAVOR OF REDUCED INTERCEPTOR LOCK RANGE.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2013-10-04 14:45:10 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Major Killz wrote:



This is my standard Stiletto setup. The locking range is 40,000m and has 1,400 scan resolution. I also have set up the Ares, Malediction and Raptor in a similar way. You're even able to drop that warp scrambler and fit a sensor booster for an even HIGHER scan resolution. What's this locking range issue you speak of?



all you have done here is prove you have no idea what you are talking about

40km lock range when you have a 36km point, can go 6kms^-1 heated and it takes a minimum of 2 seconds (server ticks) to lock and point a target is not enough

try actually flying an interceptor outside of EFT before you speak in balance threads about them, mr 34 lifetime interceptor kills



Point is the lock range increase cannot be too large. Only a little bit (4 more km seems reasonable)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#218 - 2013-10-04 15:41:09 UTC
I'm mostly positive about these changes. The claw seems improved, but I think most folks that fly it would still appreciate a third mid-slot instead of a fourth low-slot.

The part that really confused me was the swapping of the raptor/crow roles. There's already a fleet missile ceptor (malediction+ares now?) but no combat one if you take away the crow. What was the rationale behind switching them? This wasn't really explained anywhere in the original post and there's no good reason to that I can see aside from change for the sake of change. The raptor sucks, so fix the raptor. Don't just have it swap places with the crow.

To all the folks at CCP... we really appreciate the rebalancing but you seem to forget too easily that a lot of us invested quite a bit of training time to fly the ships that we fly and when you change things, you need to explain why so we don't feel like we wasted our training time.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
NonZtop
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#219 - 2013-10-04 15:43:28 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
I am NOW IN FAVOR OF REDUCED INTERCEPTOR LOCK RANGE.


Whoa better watch out who you are talking to Capqu. EDGE MASTER over here doesn't mess around.


+1 for more lock range.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#220 - 2013-10-04 16:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkenai Wyrnspire
I'm a little dubious on some of these changes - mostly because other ships can still do things better. For example, the Taranis. That's apparently completely okay, with a slight EHP reduction even. However, what does the Taranis do that the Comet doesn't do better other than the bubble immunity?

Fleet interceptors seem quite well off apart from all interceptors in general needing more lock range. But this is a pattern repeated throughout with the combat interceptors - why use them over something else? The Raptor, as another example, also remains terrible. Partially, as noted, because the shield resist bonus is wasted on a ship that can't really afford to put on shield extenders without gimping itself.

Someone.