Intergalactic Summit

Huh.

How about another drink then, Caellach?

I don't think the Nation is capable of uniting the galaxy against ... well.. itself. Even if it did.. the collective might of capsuleers far outweighs that of the Nation.

I'm truthfully unafraid of you, or your bosses, Ghost.

Ghost,

Some capsuleers may be a threat to humanity, and many may have lost sight of having a cause and purpose aside from revelry and entertainment. That does not mean all of us have.

Just as not all of Sansha's supporters are rhetoric-spouting imbeciles, not all capsuleers are ship-destroying thrill-seekers. There are negatives on both sides of this field.

I find it humorous that you say you have studied "our kind," when you are, in fact, one of us. You are a capsuleer just as I and together we represent the dynamic range of viewpoints, philosophies, perspectives and ideals that drive us.

Nation is but one threat against humanity. But while all of Nation seeks to bring humanity into its collective fold, fulfilling the Utopian vision of one man, it remains a greater threat than capsuleers - who have not united to subjugate humanity.

You almost see it, but not the whole picture it seems.

It is not some Capsuleers that may be a threat to humankind. It is the vast majority who are a threat to humankind. They do not explicitly target humans in their uncontrolled ways, but the collateral damage is enough cause endangerment. Perhaps you are, hopefully, not one of these Capsuleers.

Capsuleer Empire markets in Highsec ultimately serve to fuel their rampage. Rudimentary market observations is enough, disregarding years of observations, to see that the most movement goes outbound into the Nullsec territories. From the Nullsec territories, Capsuleer alliances transport materials to the Highsec shipyards protected by CONCORD. Some resources remain in the Capsuleers' shipyards in Nullsec, although those are usually for unsanctioned constructions.

CONCORD protects the backbone of major military powers, and the Capsuleers lure prospective crew members with lucrative contracts. Good men and women sign aboard, only to die within weeks - if not hours - after their contracted ship explodes in some hedonistic fun. Capsuleers lust constantly for more battles and greater conflict: it is the driving principle of their Nullsec organizations. Eventually, their need for crew members will out pace what human kind can replace. This is not even beginning to touch upon the moral depravity of so many people dying meaninglessly.

To study your kind, Malcolm Khross, I made the sacrifice to become one. I suffered for it gravely, but through that I have discovered how proper control can be realized. Now others of the Foundations come into it, safeguarded from the horrors of your kind.

Nation is no threat to humanity when it embodies its noble ideals. People have been taught to fear the Nation because they were told to - a self propagating fear that exists on untrue foundations. It is convenient for you to think the Nation a great threat, when you do not understand the real enemy within.

Understanding from outside observation only goes to a certain extent. This is why I find the notion of familiarity with the Nation among outsiders strange. To truly understand the Nation, you must become involved with it - lived within it. If, after that period, you deny it then I will believe you have done enough to understand it.

It is for that reason I find ignorance such as yours tragic, Malcolm Khross.



How true is your 'freedom' and 'individualism' when I can see disagreements with the idea even among Caldari and Minmatar?

The basis of your function is rendered invalid by the evidence that freedom and individual rights simply do not exist. They are artificial human constructs created in an unenlightened era, driven by ignorance. I could, perhaps, consider their goals noble if it were not for the virulent parasitism they have mutated into.

Freedom and individualism promote human thinking to consider the self before the group. They prompt a person to use their will as if the choice was entirely their own. Yet, even in the Federation, the 'defenders of Freedom', one can see that this is not true. Social peer pressure compels thinking, rampant advertising endeavors to influence thinking and control spending, ancestral culture from centuries ago influence law today. Do the Jin-Mei still possess that archaic caste system?

What of your precious rights? Unassailable human 'rights'? How quickly do those rights disappear when desperation emerges? I distinctly recall the Federation removing the right to vote by Caldari occupied systems. I know for certain human women suffer a lack of rights the most, shunted away and savagely imprisoned because they can do what men cannot.

Freedom never existed, it was a concept created to give humans comfort in a dark era. Now it is time to let go of it, and to accept our reality for what it is. It is not a journey that must be made alone, for Nation shows we can do it together. That chasm that separates humans from one another can be crossed. We do not need to hide under false ideals anymore, Caellach Marellus.

Huh. Considering "living within Nation" involves giving up part or all of who I am in the process, no thanks. Refute it if you will, but there is evidence abounding to prove my point.

The tragedy is that some would take your words to heart and submit to the Nation out of a desire to understand it and never be able to turn away.

That is tragedy.

Allow me to say I dont understand about 90% of what has been said in this thread, but my humble answer to the original question?

Until the fight is finished, or we are.

As simply put as it need be.

While I disagree with you on principles, I respect this statement.

Hnn. Humorously, perhaps I should have opened more time in my schedule.



Disagreement within human systems is not indicative of free well, Caellach Marellus. This will be clear contextually in a moment.

Culture is not forced to change until it becomes too great a burden to bear. Culture is a manifestation of human thought, repeating traits that belong to a group for particular reasons. Human beings venerate culture and place it upon a pedestal, separate from themselves yet influenced by it. It is only when the culture becomes too much, a weight too great to carry, do the people acquire the collective thought needed to change it - evolve it.

My specific example references the Jin-Mei. You may or may not see that a 'gun' was put to their head, as you choose to phrase. As a culture, they were dwarfed by the immensely larger Gallente Federation - both in terms of military and economic potential. What 'choice' did the ruling castes have but to compromise their culture in order to survive? I certainly do not think they as a people decided it for their culture does not operate in such a way. Caldari State patriots may offer better insight on this particular topic, I think.

Free will is an illusion masquerading as the truth. It is a purely human construct and this causes it to be tangible. Human systems receive input and appropriately create an output. No decision making is ever done because of a chaos choice: all reasoning and logic can be analyzed and reproduced. Erase the human operating system and you cease all output entirely. Recreate the same input and the same output will be produced again. Decision making occurs according to the input received - it is not an inherent trait that transcends the human system.

Nation does not erase human thought or personality for that is entirely counter-productive. Thoughtless machines is a simple objective to achieve - the Autonomous Machines and Gallente drone technology are examples of this. Nation, I dare to say, does more than that. These seemingly insurmountable chasms between people are bridged and they are brought together within the unity. Master's ingenious designs are the tools to ending our miserable differences without forgoing humanity altogether.



There it is - that thinking I despise. Suffering is not an inherent trait, it is a virulent sickness almost as damaging as free will. No human being is born to suffer or to cause it, it is a product of the human environment that conditions them into that role. Suffering does not validate itself, nor does it justify happiness by providing an asinine comparison.

You Capsuleers had the option - you could have laid down your arms and taken my Master's generous offer. There would have been no shame; the contrary even, it would have been marvelous to see an end to Capsuleer rampages. Instead your kind continues to throw human lives away and pointlessly resist Nation's eternal might. The blame is not with Master Sansha or Nation, it is with you.

You agree with me that the Nullsec Capsuleers are a problem, but do you act? I have seen and listened to many 'humane' Capsuleers lament about the Nullsec problem, yet they never do anything. Disorganized and divided by your own differences you cannot band together to defeat them. If for no other reason, this alone would give you meaning to join Nation to eliminate the Nullsec Capsuleers. As you are, nothing will be reached - but within Nation you could have achieved something.

If you see the common good between your morals and Master's, why do you hesitate? Is it because a century of slander by the Empires has so thoroughly colored Nation into your worst nightmare? Is it because all you ever see is the True Power fighting back against your heinous advances? If you see Master Sansha as a good person then I cannot see why you disagree with His ethics. All that I can see from you is a fear of the unknown and misunderstood.

I will not bother considering your final question simply because the nature is impractical. Master Sansha knows more than me, He is more experienced, and much more wise. I avoid indulging in the presumption I could understand His reasoning entirely. Some is simple for me to grasp, but on others I simply trust His judgment for it is completely beyond me. I take no shame in admitting that.