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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Kaz Mafaele
D-sync
D-sync.
#581 - 2013-10-03 17:38:40 UTC
These things look like absolute beasts here is my two cents.

1. Some more virus strength could be nice because it really does help with me advanced sites.
2. I think that people are really under estimating how powerful a frigate with a full set of light drones really is when they are complaining about lack of turrets. That being said could it get any kind of damage bonus too those drones or even the tristan's tracking bonus?
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#582 - 2013-10-03 17:43:37 UTC
The frigate could use a damage bonus to push it past 99 DPS with Hobgoblins.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#583 - 2013-10-03 17:48:45 UTC
Rhavas wrote:
On a side note, I did some research, analysis and speculation into the names chosen for these two boats.

Here's the EVE Fiction forum thread

Here's my analysis: It May Not Make Sense At First


This is pretty awesome! Thought I was going to get dragged into some boring lore, which seems really just like filler. But upon further inspection, CCP has put a LOT more effort into the lore than the game lets through...
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#584 - 2013-10-03 18:03:02 UTC
There already are a few frigates that can drop a full set of light drones:

- Tristan (bonus to hybrid tracking + drone tracking/HP)
- Worm (Bonus to rocket/lm range + shield resists)
- Ishkur (Assault ship, but still worth a mention - if only because of the size: Hybrid damage bonus + hybrid optimal damage bonus + drone hitpoint bonus)

Other ships without a full flight include the Comet, the Imicus etc.

Keep in mind, those ships (one of them being a T1 frigate, Tristan - 2 guns + utility + 5 drones) can already dish out some damage with drones and guns. Yes, the Astero's drones are tougher and he has a bigger bay but... honestly, what does a drone bay matter when you're blown to smithereens by combined gun/drone fire.

That's why it deserves at least 2 pew pew lasers (like it's T1 cousin, Tristan - 2 turrets, 1 utility slot.)

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
W Sherman Elric
Argentum Holdings
#585 - 2013-10-03 18:08:11 UTC
ok I get the trade off's for the frig, love the cruiser. But lets be honest a 5th mid for the frig would be perfect (prop, cargo scanner, pinpoint mod, range mod, Data analyzer, relic analyzer) and if we go that far a 6th slot for the cruiser would be aweseom (prob, pinpoint, range, data, relic, X mod)
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#586 - 2013-10-03 18:16:57 UTC
Gotta realize though. Those frigates don't have the option to cloak.

The Astero really should not be able to go toe to toe with most combat focused frigates and I personally feel it is in a good place right now. It is just strong enough that it can muscle any scanning ship out of its relic/data sites as well as complete 3/10s and below. And with skilled piloting it does have the ability to take down the slower frigate varieties from long range.

The Astero could possibly do with a slightly larger cargo hold (Around 300), but other than that I don't feel it needs any significant changes. I'd say give it enough CPU to fit a combat scanner, but we do want to make sure the other covops frigates are relevant still. Maybe a third high so you could, technically, use 2 turrets + cloak if you really wanted to.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#587 - 2013-10-03 18:23:07 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The problem is that it will be used 10 times more for solo PVP as an overpowered solo PVP ship if kept this way.

And what power should it have ? It's already plain weaker than any HAC or pirate cruiser (except maybe the Phantasm). All combat navy cruiser will make very tough fight, and all attack cruiser, navy or not, are way faster that the Stratios. In fact, the ship is barely better than T1 cruisers : a Maller have the same armor bonus and almost as many armor ; and Ogre theoretical dps is clearly not actual dps on anything moving. So what will you gank with that ?

Not to mention that all fit show the dps with ogres, which won't apply without hard tackle (scram+web) which mean you will commit a 300Misk ship to gank a T1 cruiser or a pve ship.



Its is ALMOST as strong as a pirate cruiser but can use COVERT CLOAK! THat is the issue!!! Covert cloak is maybe the most powerful module in game!


You seem to have forgotten about Cynos.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#588 - 2013-10-03 18:28:38 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.


you're thinking dps = dps, when in reality dps = dps +/- consideration for tracking, range and applied damage type. with no damage bonus and everything else being equal, it's why autocannons were - and despite recent buffs, may still be - arguably the pound-for-pound best weapons platform in the game.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#589 - 2013-10-03 18:29:07 UTC
Didn't CCP state, during the stream, that they want them better than the T1 frig but worse than an actual pirate combat boat? I mean, if they're not going to stand up to anything but an Imicus with a protocloak and 2 warp stabs that'll be half-dead before it even gets a lock, might as well ditch the turret slots at all.

As I said: trade a mid or low for a high slot. You'd still be able to grab relic/data stuff if you're into that or ditch it for point/web or maybe point/td setup. You'd keep the usefulness of having 2 turret slots (I will mention this again: if you have 2 high slots and one of them is not a cloaking device, why are you flying an Astero? A lot of ships will do the job of cloakless combat boat better. Dramiel is this way ->), keep the firepower limited and nicely split between drones and guns. The options for fitting an explorer's suite (Cloak/Launcher + warp stabs in lows of course, yes we know how ya roll...) as well as some utility slot shenanigans (cloak/launcher/nos + DDA lows with shield tank, anyone?) remain open.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#590 - 2013-10-03 18:36:54 UTC
Wiu Ming wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.


you're thinking dps = dps, when in reality dps = dps +/- consideration for tracking, range and applied damage type. with no damage bonus and everything else being equal, it's why autocannons were - and despite recent buffs, may still be - arguably the pound-for-pound best weapons platform in the game.



Withotu damage bonus Lasers win on effective tracking and range (because you will fight at logner range) and not losing DPS due to falloff. And since most ships are SHIELD tanked nowadays the lasers do not have a bad damage type.

AC are powerful when they get their standard ROF bonus that is farmore powerful than the bonuses of other ships.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#591 - 2013-10-03 18:38:34 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Wiu Ming wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.


you're thinking dps = dps, when in reality dps = dps +/- consideration for tracking, range and applied damage type. with no damage bonus and everything else being equal, it's why autocannons were - and despite recent buffs, may still be - arguably the pound-for-pound best weapons platform in the game.



Withotu damage bonus Lasers win on effective tracking and range (because you will fight at logner range) and not losing DPS due to falloff. And since most ships are SHIELD tanked nowadays the lasers do not have a bad damage type.

AC are powerful when they get their standard ROF bonus that is farmore powerful than the bonuses of other ships.

which is why I believe these ships should have only around 1k shield hp

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Meldorn Vaash
State War Academy
Caldari State
#592 - 2013-10-03 18:51:29 UTC
Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

My thoughts for changes:

Remove: Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Add: 25% Rate of Fire
Remove: 1 Turret

Change: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength to 50%

Remove: 750 Shield HP
Add: 750 Armor HP

Remove: 125m3 of Drone Bay
Add: 250m3 of Cargo Bay

Reduce Sig Radius to 125
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#593 - 2013-10-03 19:07:51 UTC
Samara Anninen wrote:
they really need covops/recon ships skills as prerequisites.


1) Faction ships never have T2 ship skills prereqs unless they are an AT prize ship, which these are not and

2) Post with your main if you wish to be taken seriously! *Rabble rabble*

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#594 - 2013-10-03 19:09:17 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
The frigate could use a damage bonus to push it past 99 DPS with Hobgoblins.


Rather pitiful for a faction frigate, especially one that is supposed to be able to defend itself.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#595 - 2013-10-03 19:12:26 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Wiu Ming wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.


you're thinking dps = dps, when in reality dps = dps +/- consideration for tracking, range and applied damage type. with no damage bonus and everything else being equal, it's why autocannons were - and despite recent buffs, may still be - arguably the pound-for-pound best weapons platform in the game.



Withotu damage bonus Lasers win on effective tracking and range (because you will fight at logner range) and not losing DPS due to falloff. And since most ships are SHIELD tanked nowadays the lasers do not have a bad damage type.

AC are powerful when they get their standard ROF bonus that is farmore powerful than the bonuses of other ships.


Which is why everyone flies Amarr ships these days. Oh wait...

Edit:
Honestly, unless the Statios gets a reasonable laser bonus it will be fit with blasters/autos.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Gabriel Locke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#596 - 2013-10-03 19:43:17 UTC
Asteros:

10 Virus strength

+1 High slot

Stratios:

10 Virus strength

Keep the Lazer cap use bonus

+5% Lazer damage per level

-25 Mbs drone bandwidth
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#597 - 2013-10-03 19:45:26 UTC
Meldorn Vaash wrote:
...Remove: 125m3 of Drone Bay...

I'm still not sure why people see the need for this. What is it that you are trying to accomplish keeping the goals of the design in mind?
Isalean
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#598 - 2013-10-03 19:46:14 UTC
Really nice ships, but will we get some more highsec SoE agents too?

There aren't many of those, especially the security ones, only one for lvl 3 and 4 missions.

Otherwise it will take very long for most people to actually get these ships.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#599 - 2013-10-03 19:49:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Meldorn Vaash wrote:
...Remove: 125m3 of Drone Bay...

I'm still not sure why people see the need for this. What is it that you are trying to accomplish keeping the goals of the design in mind?


I think people are counting on the space yurt to move drones from cargo to drone bay, which is a bit forward since we don't know the stats of it yet.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Fayral
Nano Currency
Yeet. Pray. Love.
#600 - 2013-10-03 20:10:19 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Meldorn Vaash wrote:
...Remove: 125m3 of Drone Bay...

I'm still not sure why people see the need for this. What is it that you are trying to accomplish keeping the goals of the design in mind?


I think people are counting on the space yurt to move drones from cargo to drone bay, which is a bit forward since we don't know the stats of it yet.




Exactly. If the space yurt itself is of decent size your cargobay would need to be pretty darn large to bring what you require.