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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Paying Concord to Gank Scammer

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Author
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My Dream
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-10-03 16:21:51 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:
still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts

How much did you lose?
All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy.

Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there.



so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#22 - 2013-10-03 16:24:37 UTC
My Dream wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:
still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts

How much did you lose?
All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy.

Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there.



so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free


Probably about as much as he endorses the idea that pissing and moaning on the forums as a result of your own ignorance should be risk free.
My Dream
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-10-03 16:25:21 UTC
keep the personal insults at me going guys . gotta love the endangered scammers
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2013-10-03 16:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
My Dream wrote:
Victor Dathar wrote:
I wish I could report your posting to Concord.



come up with a better idea to deal with scamming . nothing should be risk free in eve

listening ..............



Yeah, do like the rest of us..read. Pay attention. Rub a few brain cells together.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#25 - 2013-10-03 16:30:18 UTC
One word NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Blue
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#26 - 2013-10-03 16:33:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
My Dream wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:
still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts

How much did you lose?
All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy.

Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there.



so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free

Nope, you're kind of jumping to conclusions there. CCP implicitly allow scamming, it's up to us, the players, to provide the consequences. It's also up to us, the players, to take responsibility for our own ignorance and greed.

If you'd read one of my previous posts you would see that I have been the victim of a scam to the tune of the best part of a billion isk. Do you know what I did about it? I congratulated the scammer and then asked how he'd done it, I learnt a valuable lesson in how the market works in the process.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is not bliss, it's ignorance.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Zane Lowe
Our Sanctum
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2013-10-03 16:33:08 UTC
Let's put a system in place which is highly abusable, will likely harm innocent players, and will take up a ton of GM time to solve something that isn't a problem.

How could that possibly go wrong.
My Dream
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-10-03 16:35:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
My Dream wrote:
still waiting for a better idea all i see is unhappy mains of scam alts

How much did you lose?
All I'm seeing is an unhappy scam victim, who can't take responsibility for being greedy.

Also Features and Ideas would be a better place to have posted, you tend to get a better class of ridicule in there.



so you fully endorse the idea that making isk in eve should be completely risk free

Nope, you're kind of jumping to conclusions there. CCP implicitly allow scamming, it's up to us, the players, to provide the consequences. It's also up to us, the players, to take responsibility for their own ignorance and greed. If you'd read one of my previous posts you would see that I have been the victim of a scam to the tune of the best part of a billion isk. Do you know what I did about it? I congratulated the scammer and then asked how he'd done it, I learnt a valuable lesson in how the market works in the process.



i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#29 - 2013-10-03 16:39:10 UTC
My Dream wrote:
keep the personal insults at me going guys . gotta love the endangered scammers



Not a scammer - this is my main. My giant carebearing high-sec main. Ad hominem attacks don't support your argument... they just make it clear that you can't support your argument any other way.

The first time I see someone post a scam I block them. Keeps trade hubs really quiet for me. But, I don't have to evaluate nearly as many posted deals since I'm already ignoring the ones from known scammers.

You still haven't answered how CONCORD would identify actual scams... it's not that hard to arrange to have multiple reports (your suggestion) sent in from alternate accounts or corpmates or whatever.

You are fundamentally asking for the game to take a player's word (or however many words you consider a minimum to trigger this) that they were scammed. You are asking to automate a judgement call. You are trying to put a hard line between "legit deal" and "scam" into an area full of shades of grey.

As others have noted - scams rely on greed and ignorance. That doesn't make them ethical, but it does make them reasonably avoidable via the old adage "if it's too good to be true, it's probably a scam".
My Dream
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-10-03 16:39:32 UTC
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#31 - 2013-10-03 16:40:36 UTC
My Dream wrote:
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback



Wardecs.

Bounties.

Ganking them yourself.

Hiring merc corps.
Zane Lowe
Our Sanctum
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2013-10-03 16:40:45 UTC
My Dream wrote:
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers


No one besides you wants a new mechanic to punish them, because current methods are fine.
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#33 - 2013-10-03 16:44:41 UTC
My Dream wrote:
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers


People are not required to come up with a better idea in order to shoot down a bad idea. Your idea can be bad all on its own.

"How can we get Fluffy out of the tree - the branches won't support our weight and we can't get up high enough with a ladder!"

"Cut down the tree!"

"Bad idea - it would fall on the house, and probably kill Fluffy, too!"

"Well, unless you have a better idea, I'm going to go get the chainsaw..."
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#34 - 2013-10-03 16:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
My Dream wrote:
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback
Payback is not being scammed, we already have the tools, you just don't know how to use some of them.

The most important tool all of us have to avoid being scammed is called a brain, closely followed by actually reading things like contracts and doing some research.
In game there's the blocklist which you can use to stop scams appearing in chat, the standings mechanic, bounties, wardecs, knowing how margin trading works, etc.

99% of every scam ever relies on the mark being greedy (or drunk in the case of Eve), if the mark isn't greedy, the scam doesn't work.

Why should there be payback for something that is generally the fault of the victim?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#35 - 2013-10-03 16:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
My Dream wrote:
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers


Find them and shoot them.


Anyway, re: OP, I like the idea of being able to simply pay CONCORD to gank whomever I want rather than having to get a fleet together. I mean, since we're declaring that you can bribe CONCORD to punish people for legal activities, it stands to reason...
(Besides, a systematic definition of "scam" in EVE that doesn't boil down to "someone regrets the deal" is remarkably difficult to describe.)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#36 - 2013-10-03 16:46:17 UTC
Zane Lowe wrote:
Let's put a system in place which is highly abusable, will likely harm innocent players, and will take up a ton of GM time to solve something that isn't a problem.

How could that possibly go wrong.


CCP has copy-pasta trained to level 5 for anything that does not violate the TOS/EULA. That probably deals with 99.5% of tickets they receive for "scamming".

The "system" only goes wrong when a player does not engage their brain before acting. Oddly enough this seems to be an increasing and not a decreasing problem. You should blame parents and a lack of sunshine, you can't fix or patch stupid.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#37 - 2013-10-03 16:46:21 UTC
My Dream wrote:
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers


You should try holding your breath and stamping your feet. I hear that gets good results.
Haulie Berry
#38 - 2013-10-03 16:46:58 UTC
My Dream wrote:
and still i wait for a better idea to punish scammers



It turns out that you don't get to punish people who aren't doing anything wrong.
My Dream
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-10-03 16:47:51 UTC
Elliavir wrote:
My Dream wrote:
i have no problem with CCP AND THERE STANCE ON SCAMMING . i do however have issue thats there no tool in game to get payback



Wardecs.

Bounties.

Ganking them yourself.

Hiring merc corps.


1st there normally alts in npc corps

2nd bounties allthough usefull . are usless for this because concord will protect the scammer when trying to collect

3rd see above

4 nd
see above again =p

and non of this removes there illl gotten gains from there wallet


stuns me the amount of people who fully endorse un ethical isk making . the game prides its self on realism yet we have noway to punish perpitrators of a criminal act and it is criminal by any yard stick
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#40 - 2013-10-03 16:49:00 UTC
ooh gimme gimme :) I can have fun with this.