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Navy Drake is a Pathetic Joke.

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Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#1 - 2013-10-03 01:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
The only Benefit of this ship over the original drake is a slightly longer range to Assault and Heavy missiles, and a slightly more damage to smaller ships (But not enough to overcome the Normal drakes innate kinetic damage bonus).

In all cases and tests, the Normal Drake out classed / DPS'd, Out tanked, and Out preformed the Navy Drake.


Examples and fittings:

NOTE: All experimentation's, used the exact same fittings for both drakes (With the exception of the extra launcher on the Navy version).

Drake:

Pros:

Consistently maintains a Larger tank as well as Higher damage / DPS where balance is concerned.

Cons: Does less damage to Smaller ships over all, however damage to smaller ships is still higher then the Navy drake.



Navy Drake

Pros: Longer range on missiles, Hits smaller targets slightly easier.

Cons:

All fits used for the Navy drake will not compare to the normal drakes Damage and Resistance Bonuses. 1 extra launcher does not compete with the 10% damage bonus to kinetic missiles per level on the normal drake. Nor does it compete with the 4% per level for resistance bonuses.


Some serious work needs to be given to the Navy Drake to make it even remotely comparable to the original. My consensus is the Navy Version of this ship is a waste of time, money and energy to fly and is far inferior to the Normal one.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#2 - 2013-10-03 01:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Taoist Dragon
hmm so damage selection is not part of your calculations eh?

Good comparison. Shocked

Once the drake changes dmage type it's damage output drops dramatically. And the navy has 2 extra launchers not 1.

The Drake is an excellent ship but the navy drake is way more flexible in it's engagement profile.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#3 - 2013-10-03 01:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Taoist Dragon wrote:
hmm so damage selection is not part of your calculations eh?

Good comparison. Shocked



Damage selection is part of my calculations, I tested all missile platforms and all ammo types. When using Scourge ammunition the Normal drake out preforms the Navy version on every single angle.

When using any other ammo, the normal drake does equal, or slightly less, but maintains a much larger tank.

Generally speaking, fitting for the ND (Navy Drake) can be a painful experience also, it "usually" can not even fit a "Standard" full T2 Fitting without Implants or killing your tank for Ancillary / Overclock Rigs. Whereas the Normal drake can, Which means along with its other cons, the ND has Power-grid and CPU issues as well.

As I stated the ND is simply not worthy of being a "Navy" version of anything, and should be classified as a lower tier then the normal drake. Or given some kind of damage boost. (Since it is supposed to be, the faster, harder hitting of the 2). Or simply giving the Navy Drake another low slot would fix the issue as well since you could slot another BCU or PG / CPU unit and maintain your tank.
Maethilar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-10-03 02:22:21 UTC
Since the N. Drake has a better range you can shoot from far away, so less tank is needed. Also the N. drake is a lot more flexible, it doesn't has the resistance bonus but it has more base shield HP, so more or less it compensates for the resistances.

The best part of EVE is that if you don't like a ship you can live forever without piloting it.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#5 - 2013-10-03 07:12:48 UTC
All HML ships are now really bad. HAM's apply no damage unless you have something hard tackled / painted with bonus painters. So unless you plan on brawling your navy drake (And i would never suggest brawling) Stop flying the trash heaps.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#6 - 2013-10-03 07:27:44 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
hmm so damage selection is not part of your calculations eh?

Good comparison. Shocked



Damage selection is part of my calculations, I tested all missile platforms and all ammo types. When using Scourge ammunition the Normal drake out preforms the Navy version on every single angle.

When using any other ammo, the normal drake does equal, or slightly less, but maintains a much larger tank.

Generally speaking, fitting for the ND (Navy Drake) can be a painful experience also, it "usually" can not even fit a "Standard" full T2 Fitting without Implants or killing your tank for Ancillary / Overclock Rigs. Whereas the Normal drake can, Which means along with its other cons, the ND has Power-grid and CPU issues as well.

As I stated the ND is simply not worthy of being a "Navy" version of anything, and should be classified as a lower tier then the normal drake. Or given some kind of damage boost. (Since it is supposed to be, the faster, harder hitting of the 2). Or simply giving the Navy Drake another low slot would fix the issue as well since you could slot another BCU or PG / CPU unit and maintain your tank.



Hmm funny I don't need fitting mods or any gimping of my fit to have a T2 fit.

AS for drake doing just a bit less DPS when not using kinetic - you must need glasses as the dps drops loads. Granted the raw tank figure for a drake is slightly more but given that damage application from a Navy drake is way more consistant I call BS....

Navy drake is Not a normal Drake....don't fly it like one! Shocked

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Eli Kzanti
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-10-03 09:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Kzanti
As previously stated, the DPS drop on anything but scourge on a normal drake makes its DPS pitiful (well, more pitiful than usual). The navy drake can easily pull an extra 70 DPS over the normal drake on any damage type but scourge, and due to damage application it'll clear level 3s faster. If you fit both with scourge, a normal drake does maybe 30 DPS more.

And sure the navy drake tanks less, but the normal drake tanks more than is generally necessary anyway <_< while the navy drake actually has more EHP at the end of the day.

So, lets recap these classes:
DPS - navy drake wins in 3/4 damage types by a significant margin, loses out in scourge slightly, but applies all damage better
Tank - Navy drake has more EHP, normal drake can get more recharge
Speed - Navy drake is significantly faster, making kiting easily viable


Conclusion: OP doesnt know crap about crap.

Edit: just checked, navy drake does higher damage vs. frigs due to its explosion radius bonus. 50 vs. 40 using scourge against a 30m sig radius. Go figure.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#8 - 2013-10-03 10:04:30 UTC
Comparing a podla-HAM-navydraek and a civilian HAM-Drake, vanillafits each:

both against a shieldcaracal using scourge navy
http://i.imgur.com/iGkkJLz.png

the same, but caracal now has an AB
http://i.imgur.com/raDTX99.png

the same, but shooting a scrammed frigate
http://i.imgur.com/zVjhQcP.png

the same, but using mjolnir navy
http://i.imgur.com/CwAHdxL.png

So ye, raw dps using kinetic against big immobile targets is surely more of a thing for the regular drake, but if you want to shoot into the resist holes and only give minor fudges about their movement, navy drake is superior.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-10-03 10:14:59 UTC
I would pick n drake over the regular for any and all pvp if prices were the same. Possibly excluding an engagement vs. Minmatar t2 battlecruiser.

The damage application and type selection just make the n drake better. Not much better though, not worth the price tag for most purposes.

Perhaps the damage application will be of more use in the future with small ships being buffed. The role of a frig killer can be useful.
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#10 - 2013-10-03 13:08:11 UTC
I think there is some merit in the op.

It would be more along the lines of other ships of similar classes if both ships had the same on paper dps with the navy version having the application bonus as extra, while losing the tank bonus (and gaining a bit of base ehp).

In the case of the Drake they were a bit too strict with the poor Navy version, possibly an aftereffect of the Drake fleets of yesteryear.

Given the HM nerf... perhaps a tiny bit of love for the n drake might not be misplaced...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-03 13:22:03 UTC
Darling Hassasin wrote:
I think there is some merit in the op.

It would be more along the lines of other ships of similar classes if both ships had the same on paper dps with the navy version having the application bonus as extra, while losing the tank bonus (and gaining a bit of base ehp).

In the case of the Drake they were a bit too strict with the poor Navy version, possibly an aftereffect of the Drake fleets of yesteryear.

Given the HM nerf... perhaps a tiny bit of love for the n drake might not be misplaced...



HM Nerf?

They let all of the skills effect HAMs that was a pretty nice buff in itself.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#12 - 2013-10-03 13:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Onictus wrote:
HM Nerf?

They let all of the skills effect HAMs that was a pretty nice buff in itself.


HMLs are not HAMs. The nerf was so big that it doesn't even make sense to fit HMLs in many applications now to ships that traditionally sported them in the past.

The Navy Drake is better in PvP than the regular, and also better in PvE unless you don't understand what damage application means and/or use a passive 400DPS HML Drake to run L4s (in that case, plz biomass).

The Navy Drake on the other hand is NOT an equivalent step up from the T1 variant to the other new Navy BCs.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#13 - 2013-10-03 13:54:33 UTC
The ships not bad, just not great. Same all of the navy battlecruisers...

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#14 - 2013-10-03 18:24:29 UTC
Navy Drake is good for fighting things cruiser and smaller. Anything larger than a cruiser you're probably better off with a normal drake. T2 Gal of any size is probably better with the NDrake due to kinetic resist, too.

The devs proved this in the Odyssey live stream when they pitted a couple Navy Drakes against other Navy BCs in 1v1s. The Navy Drakes crumpled before even really scratching the others.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#15 - 2013-10-03 19:47:16 UTC
Both Drakes suck balls now. Use a Tengu.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#16 - 2013-10-04 04:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Only thing the ND is is a big shiny target waiting to die to anything with half decent dps.

Only use for it is against frigs and cruisers. and I am pretty sure a decent fit cruiser would smash it.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#17 - 2013-10-04 06:42:01 UTC
Show me on this model where the dig nasty Drake touched your shiney Navy drake.......Cool

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#18 - 2013-10-04 17:34:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalihira
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Both Drakes suck balls now. Use a Tengu.


or a cerb
Ginger Barbarella
#19 - 2013-10-04 23:16:26 UTC
Lost yer Drake to NPCs, huh? P

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#20 - 2013-10-04 23:35:52 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
hmm so damage selection is not part of your calculations eh?

Good comparison. Shocked



Damage selection is part of my calculations, I tested all missile platforms and all ammo types. When using Scourge ammunition the Normal drake out preforms the Navy version on every single angle.

When using any other ammo, the normal drake does equal, or slightly less, but maintains a much larger tank..


It seems you use the words "equal" and "slightly less" in a different way to most of the rest of us. The Navy Drake does 33% more DPS than the standard when using non Kinetic ammo. It does 11% less when using Kinetic.

Oh and the Navy Drake has 50% more range, and a lower damage delay at all ranges, that the T1 Drake, which is rather more than slightly in the boring ordinary lexicon most of us use, and also seems to contradict your flat assertion that the T1 Drake always outperforms it when shooting Kinetic; the Navy Drake infinitely outperforms the T1 drake when shooting Kinetic ammo out past 70Km.

In short: I am sorry that your EFT session has left you chafed, congested and unsatisfied.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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