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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon] Interceptors

First post
Author
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-10-03 02:03:28 UTC
Just a little more lock range would be good. A teeny tiny bit.
Also, I recall seeing a new model for the crow/raptor/condor at one point - are we likely to see this new model for this expansion (or ever for that matter)?

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-10-03 02:05:00 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Also, I recall seeing a new model for the crow/raptor/condor at one point - are we likely to see this new model for this expansion (or ever for that matter)?


IIRC that was proved to be a fake some time ago

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-10-03 02:05:16 UTC
A few things. I won't comment too much on the Ares, but for the love of god, do not make it a missile-only boat.

With that out of the way, the Taranis needs more fitting. It has a pathetic amount of fitting compared to its t1 counterpart, the Atron. What's the point of all those nice slots if we can't fit anything in them?

Lastly, and this may be slightly controversial, why not give us something on the interceptors that's not almost completely useless (bubble immunity) and make them able to tackle supers. Bubble immunity in low sec means diddly ******* squat, but having a light ship capable of tackling supercaps would be immensely useful to everyone, and it would let newer players be involved in supercap warfare in a way that they couldn't before.

And before all you ******* whiney super pilots come in here and cry about my proposal, consider that we're talking about an incredibly paper ship with terrible sensor strength and lock range. A good group should be able to deal with them without much trouble. This change would at least stop this chicanery of supers lolling their way through low sec fights without fear of reprisal from anyone except PL.
Gallastian Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2013-10-03 02:18:35 UTC
Great changes.

I think with the Malediction getting a 4th low for a high and not losing any PG the MWD MSE Point fit is going to end up substantially stronger than the Ares now. The Ares needs an MAPC to do the same, so where before the Malediction had lower mass, lower speed, and came out very close with both fitting 2 speed mods now the Malediction can look at fitting 3 speed mods. The two ships are differentiated in other ways so it doesn't matter. For the record, I'm a Malediction ppilot, not an Ares pilot, so this is an observation not a complaint.

Please keep bubble immunity on the combat Ceptors. That bonus is going to be a great quality of life improvement when soloing.

More lock range would be nice, but I like the choice between fitting one lock range mod and performing better once tackle is established vs putting two lock range mods on to get initial tackle as quickly as possible.

I'd be slightly concerned that the Crow is going to perform better across the board than the Stiletto in practice. It appears that you want the Crow to be tankier while the Stiletto is faster/more agile. However, in practice the Stiletto is going to have to put a little more effort into lock range and a little more effort into packing a tight fit on there. I am guessing without EFT that the ~standard fits~ on the Crow are going to have an MSE II while the Stiletto settles for a Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity. I think you should give the Stiletto either more fitting than the Crow or more lock range than the Crow rather than throwing the advantage in both fields to the Crow.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2013-10-03 03:04:24 UTC
I'm not seeing all that much to sell me on the new Raptor. It's not as terrible as the version currently on TQ but then it couldn't be much worse. Your description says it all - a Taranis with less DPS and less EHP, exchange for more mobility and range (but not as much as the other races' tackleceptors). Would a 4th mid really be too much to ask for here?

The crow is looking extremely nice though.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Clendestined
Perkone
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-10-03 03:16:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Nice.

Couple of things. The Taranis only gets 1 frig bonus. Why?
The Ares has split weapon ones. I thought you were moving away from that? If you wish it to be missiles, then make it so.



This.
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
#127 - 2013-10-03 04:04:49 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
stuff

It's basically a faster, smaller, closer range Slicer.
You fly it a similar way, but it's much much better suited to fighting other fast ships than the Slicer is.

I think the easiest way to understand it would be to think of it as the stopgap between the Retribution & Slicer.
Combined with the fast warp and bubble immunity, this'll be a really really fun ship to fly Smile

Interceptors are meant to be the fastest means to gain tackle on a target.
That includes moving through excessively bubbled systems.


With a interceptors speed they can already move VERY fast though bubbled systems. As it is now bubbles are basically the only way to catch a interceptor.

By making them nullified that takes out the one real way of possibly catching a interceptor. We already have nullified T3s, and MJD battleships. With the addition of nullified interceptors we might as well just remove bubbles from the game.

As a fast tackle, interceptors would benefit greatly from immunity to the MWD canceling effects of warp scramblers.
Gallastian Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2013-10-03 04:21:35 UTC
Teth Razor wrote:
With a interceptors speed they can already move VERY fast though bubbled systems. As it is now bubbles are basically the only way to catch a interceptor.

By making them nullified that takes out the one real way of possibly catching a interceptor. We already have nullified T3s, and MJD battleships. With the addition of nullified interceptors we might as well just remove bubbles from the game.

As a fast tackle, interceptors would benefit greatly from immunity to the MWD canceling effects of warp scramblers.


Wow friend. Think about that a second. 'Interceptors are too hard to tackle. With bubble immunity they will be uncatchable. We should make them immune to scrams instead so they can burn through our bubble at 5km/s.'

Also bubbles aren't what catches interceptors. Fastlocking, gatecamping scrubs in Recons catch Interceptors. I don't think I've ever died without having my MWD shut down (neut or scram) and of those 95% has been scrams.

You are also suggesting that combat Ceptors with scrams fit should be able to dictate range against everything in Nullsec that doesn't have a 90% web.

Just wow.
Rockstara
Reaction Scientific
#129 - 2013-10-03 04:24:00 UTC
I think the idea of a combat interceptor when it is outclassed by every other frigate in the game in that role is kind of silly.

There was a period when the damage output at close range and speed to close the gap of the taranis made it a feared ship - the ideal blaster ship. However, frigates have moved on and none of the combat ceptors seem capable of holding their own against even a t1 frigate. They should be fast moving and extremely hard hitting such as -50% optimal+falloff +100% rof.
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
#130 - 2013-10-03 04:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Teth Razor
Gallastian Khanid wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
With a interceptors speed they can already move VERY fast though bubbled systems. As it is now bubbles are basically the only way to catch a interceptor.

By making them nullified that takes out the one real way of possibly catching a interceptor. We already have nullified T3s, and MJD battleships. With the addition of nullified interceptors we might as well just remove bubbles from the game.

As a fast tackle, interceptors would benefit greatly from immunity to the MWD canceling effects of warp scramblers.


Wow friend. Think about that a second. 'Interceptors are too hard to tackle. With bubble immunity they will be uncatchable. We should make them immune to scrams instead so they can burn through our bubble at 5km/s.'

Also bubbles aren't what catches interceptors. Fastlocking, gatecamping scrubs in Recons catch Interceptors. I don't think I've ever died without having my MWD shut down (neut or scram) and of those 95% has been scrams.

You are also suggesting that combat Ceptors with scrams fit should be able to dictate range against everything in Nullsec that doesn't have a 90% web.

Just wow.


On jump in its next to imposable to catch a inty if he just crashes the gate. usually intys get caught on drag bubbles, especaly if they are ahead of their fleet. So in a scenario like that webs and neuts are more then enough to kill a inty, even if he has immunity to mwd cancelling.

All im saying is if they become nullified nobody will EVER catch them if they choose not to fight.

More nullified is BAD, REALLY BAD for null sec.

CCP needs to be adding more ways to fight each other and blow ships up. Not more ways to avoid combat and travel null sec safely without even having to think!
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#131 - 2013-10-03 05:11:04 UTC
Rockstara wrote:
I think the idea of a combat interceptor when it is outclassed by every other frigate in the game in that role is kind of silly.

What exactly is the point of combat interceptors nowadays anyways? What do they specifically bring to the battlespace that you can't find anywhere else. As a group all interceptors are designed to be super fast tackle, but that's not a role that relies much on dps. I know I fit a taranis for skirmisher/hunter killer duties for mauling frigates, but that's something I can easily fit a half dozen other ships for just as well or possibly better.
===

Regarding the ares: I do get what people are saying about gallente ships not being missile ships, but Roden has always said it is a missile ship manufacturer. it's not really any different from Khanid ships being T2 missile users on a guns/drones race. I enjoy the variety, and I believe it helps serve to encourage players to cross train a bit, which is something I do like to see. I should note, though, if both Amarr and Gallente are going to have T2 missile boats, Caldari and Minmatar need some love and get some drone boats.

Now, all that said, I don't know the real reason for the change; the use of hybrids fit just fine and worked well enough, and in the past roden hasn't meant missile bonuses, it has meant, oh this ship has one extra missile slot, which, granted is a bit of a cop out as far as that description goes. A note in favor of not doing missiles is the fact that if you aren't a missile user, you are limited to just one other ship, so you can't choose which ship role you want in that case, but that goes for the other tree races as well. I sometimes begin to think maybe a few new ships need to be slotted in to give us a bit more weapon variety.
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-10-03 05:15:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tragedy
What the **** are you doing to the ares? All this rebalancing... you've fixed so many broken crappy split damage ships. Now you're putting one back in? It doesnt work. If you wanna have split damage for gallente let it be in drones and hybrids. Hybrids and missiles are ******* terrible.


err... I got carried away. Just remembered I flew a stilletto with no guns for most tackling work. Carry on. But seriously. Screw missile/hybrid splits. Even if weapons on tackling ships are just for killmail whoring.
Boris Amarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2013-10-03 05:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Boris Amarr
What about increasing Max Targeting Range ?

Over heated Warp Disruptor - 36 km
Max Targeting Range - 27.5 km

is it joke? may be Max Targeting Range should be rebalanced?



Also Crusader must have bonus for Optimal. Now Imperial Navy Slicer more dangerous then Crusader, because any Interceptor in close range = dead Interceptor

you can repleace:

10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor use per level -> 15% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range per level
and increase total Capacitor amount instead of this bonus
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2013-10-03 05:45:05 UTC
To clear a couple things up;

- The rocket bonus on the Ares is crap. It's a mere 10dps per T2 rocket launcher, assuming you can even fit one. Rather have the tracking bonus back.

- The "max targeting range" numbers are the stats prior to skills, implants, rigs, or bonuses

- The "single damage bonus" on the Taranis is actually two bonuses combined. If you were paying attention when the change was made you would know that it's actually TWO 5% damage bonuses. If you'd prefer, I'm sure CCP wouldn't mind splitting it to make the other frig bonus the tracking, and the 2nd inty bonus damage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2013-10-03 06:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alghara
hi CCP Fozzie,

The modification for acceleration is great,

About nullifier, I believe now it's very too difficult to catch them, and it's not really interesting to have this bonus. Because already the new acceleration make the interceptor really good.

But they have one thing to modified. The interceptor must be fast, and can tackle the ennemy. With new module micro jump drive, it's difficult to tackle this ship because the bonus on the scramble is not good on the interceptor. 5% per level is too short when you have already a short distance.

full skill 11.5.

That will be usefull to have :

5% / level disrupt range
100 % and the scramble range (ship bonus).


Crusader :

increase the capacitor.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2013-10-03 06:33:03 UTC
Fozzie,

On the Malediction description, it says you're converting the rocket damage modifier to a light missile RoF bonus but it then lists the bonus as a RoF bonus for rockets and light missiles.

If the bonus is correct as listed I'm all for it but I generally like rockets on my Malediction and would very much like to keep the option open. Clarification on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Val.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#137 - 2013-10-03 06:42:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Crusader's problem is that small pulse doesn't have enough range to be really useful without a utility high for a nos. Then you go and kill the utility high (for a nos) from the Malediction too. Seriously man, why do you ******* hate utility highs?

-Liang


The Crusader is designed to use beams effectively with kiting, hence the tracking and cap reduction bonuses. The increase in fitting along with better cap allows for it to actually make a decent fit a reality, as it was severely wanting in CPU before. Do not use pulses on it since it doesn't get a range bonus; that's what the slicer is for.
Xio Zheng
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2013-10-03 06:48:59 UTC
That moment when the ship you fly gets buffed in every way possible. Thank you for the new maladiction.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#139 - 2013-10-03 06:53:22 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:

- The rocket bonus on the Ares is crap. It's a mere 10dps per T2 rocket launcher, assuming you can even fit one. Rather have the tracking bonus back.


Not Empty Quoting.

Katrina Oniseki

Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#140 - 2013-10-03 06:58:56 UTC
Fozzie,

Please consider getting rid of a rather useless role bonus on the ceptors.

Imagine: A drag bubble is placed. Ceptors go chasing after enemy fleet, and warp along with friendlies. Friendlies are caught in the bubble, while the ceptors land where.... 100K Away? How in the hell is that useful? Ceptors never had a problem with bubbles. Hell they can all travel close to 8KS+ When heated / linked. Bubbles do not stop nor scare them. You can travel 50K in about 6.5 seconds. Why in the hell do you want bubble immunity?

As for 'chasing' targets through warp, the ceptors now with actually applied warp speed in space, will easily allow them to catch gangs.

What ceptors really need is a way to actually bring some utility to a fleet, besides a fast long point. Why has the idea not been explored about giving the ceptors increased survivability in scram range? Because currently, if a ceptor comes near a neut / web its insta popped. None of the changes you have given them does anything to rectify this- or at least make them viable frig PvPers.