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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2013-10-03 03:14:03 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Also, these can't use covops jump portals. They aren't T2.

CCP Rise wrote:
And yes, you can use covert portals.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Freako X
Doom Inc
#422 - 2013-10-03 03:24:17 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Freako X wrote:
^^^

Fits the SOE humanitarian theme.

considering that logi's are typically used as accessories to people blowing each other up, not so much really.

Edit: Also not understanding the logic behind the 2 being vastly different in purpose to begin with, considering the current pirate lines.


As opposed to lasers and combat drones? Logistics is a pacifist profession in comparison to pew pew laser boats.

I'm not the one who stated they would create a humanitarian ship, so your looking at the wrong person for that reasoning. The SOE I've worked for has no qualms about telling me to kill NPC's and even gives me shiny exploration goods for it (which are frequently used to find more NPC's or players to kill). For THAT SOE these ships fit quite well.


I hear ya ... the missions are like any other security agent from an NPC faction.

I would reference this to highlight the humanitarian theme for SoE.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#423 - 2013-10-03 03:42:16 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
More bandwidth on a cruiser than on any battleship? Are the rest of the pirate factions going to be following this design trend? This is just better than the Gila in every way.


You may be correct ... but pirate ships are before balance pass. So this Gila may be diffrent from new Gila.


Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.


So … drone + ECM, dropping the missile bonus?


drones What?

ECMs Cry

We need a missile pirate faction ship, and Guristas becoming very tough missile brawlers would help distance them from the SOE ships as well.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#424 - 2013-10-03 03:44:17 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.


So … drone + ECM, dropping the missile bonus?


drones What?

ECMs Cry

We need a missile pirate faction ship, and Guristas becoming very tough missile brawlers would help distance them from the SOE ships as well.

I have to agree, I was glad to hear that "Pirate" faction drone ships were going to be passed to SOE.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
ichi bin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#425 - 2013-10-03 03:45:02 UTC
Some changes to the stats a bit that fit more to the covert ops tree inline with the other covert ops ships.

Astero

Role Bonus: +5000 km to scout drone control range <-Added role bonus

Covert Ops Skill Bonus: <-Changes from fixed stats to skill based
20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level
+2 Virus strength for Relic and Data analyzers per level

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and speed <-Changed drone bonus to hitpoints/speed

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers <-Added 2 launcher slots
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210


Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret or Hybrid Turret capacitor need

Covert Ops Skill Bonus: <-Changes from fixed stats to skill based
20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level
+2 Virus strength for Relic and Data analyzers per level

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 4 turrets, 4 launchers <-Changes from 5H 5M 5L and 4 and 0
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2013-10-03 03:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
ichi bin wrote:
Some changes to the stats a bit that fit more to the covert ops tree inline with the other covert ops ships.

Astero

Role Bonus: +5000 km to scout drone control range <-Added role bonus

Covert Ops Skill Bonus: <-Changes from fixed stats to skill based
20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level
+2 Virus strength for Relic and Data analyzers per level

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and speed <-Changed drone bonus to hitpoints/speed

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 2 launchers <-Added 2 launcher slots
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210


Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret or Hybrid Turret capacitor need

Covert Ops Skill Bonus: <-Changes from fixed stats to skill based
20% reduced CPU need for Cloaking Devices per level
10% increase to scan strength of probes per level
10% reduction to survey probe flight time per level
+2 Virus strength for Relic and Data analyzers per level

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 4 turrets, 4 launchers <-Changes from 5H 5M 5L and 4 and 0
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

These are not T2 ships, and so far as I know there are no shared race t2 ships, so this isn't "in line" with anything really. Especially since there are no T2 exploration cruisers and the Stratios doesn't have ewar bonuses and isn't a frigate like the covert ops.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#427 - 2013-10-03 03:55:11 UTC
I wish there was a sig radius decrease on drones to help them avoid lucky shot instapops.
Chocolatier
Scrumptious Chocolate Emporium
#428 - 2013-10-03 04:45:08 UTC
When the loudest echo in the thread is "I'll take 10 of the cruiser" voiced from both PvP and PvE players, I think you have to question if the ship is balanced.

As it stands, the cruiser with its 125mb, just absolutely absurd 500m3 drone bay, drone damage bonus' and ability to cloak is just lunacy. There are people in the thread asking for even more damage and CPU to be fit. Someone posted that they wanted a bonus that gave them 0 seconds of targeting delay coming out of cloak. Maybe just add an instakill button on it instead?

I feel that some individuals think that they will be the only people able to access this ship. I've seen numerous fits where the dps with a cloak fitted is 850+ unheated.

The cruiser needs to re-tuned for more exploration and less gank/damage potential. This ship is outclassing ships that are dedicated to drones, while having a CovCloak.



Take the bandwidth/bay down, or we'll just be playing Eve: Stratios
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#429 - 2013-10-03 05:11:35 UTC
Chocolatier wrote:
This ship is outclassing ships that are dedicated to drones, while having a CovCloak.


The nearest comparison right now is the Gila. The SOE cruiser has more DPS than a Gila, and can fit a cloak. I agree with your sentiment. A compromise could be the removal of rig slots, reduction of calibration to prevent the use of sentry drone rigs, and the removal of weapon hardpoints.

Replacing 25Mbps of drone control with a logistics bonus would be really nice, IMHO. Why does a new ship have to have DPS as its primary characteristic?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Fayral
Nano Currency
Yeet. Pray. Love.
#430 - 2013-10-03 05:15:01 UTC
Chocolatier wrote:
When the loudest echo in the thread is "I'll take 10 of the cruiser" voiced from both PvP and PvE players, I think you have to question if the ship is balanced.

As it stands, the cruiser with its 125mb, just absolutely absurd 500m3 drone bay, drone damage bonus' and ability to cloak is just lunacy. There are people in the thread asking for even more damage and CPU to be fit. Someone posted that they wanted a bonus that gave them 0 seconds of targeting delay coming out of cloak. Maybe just add an instakill button on it instead?

I feel that some individuals think that they will be the only people able to access this ship. I've seen numerous fits where the dps with a cloak fitted is 850+ unheated.

The cruiser needs to re-tuned for more exploration and less gank/damage potential. This ship is outclassing ships that are dedicated to drones, while having a CovCloak.



Take the bandwidth/bay down, or we'll just be playing Eve: Stratios




I think we need to backup here a second. People will always go to extremes when things like this come up. Everyone wants an i win button and of course people are going to try and shoehorn the ship into a pvp gank special. Its upto the devs to ensure its not too powerful in that respect. Nerfing the drone bay way down is counter intuitive to what the stated goals of the ship are. Long deployments of solo exploration and taking out targets of opportunity.
Maya VonNeumann
Eldorado Exploration Expedition
#431 - 2013-10-03 05:15:04 UTC
Please don't skimp on CPU, Power and or Capacitors. I hate wasting good slots on augments. If it's going to be a multi role ship it should have decent stats in those areas.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2013-10-03 05:15:51 UTC
Gotta say, since I had suggested a logi Roll for this in another thread, I would like that over the Laser Energy Use bonus..

Why? SOE are as was said humanitarian.. Having that bonus would fit in well. As for why fit it on an exploration ship? It's not anything yet, it still remains to see what it will be at the end.. Though I have no issues at all with probe bonus and logi bonus.. Also a covops Logi.. you'd make so many people in Null love/hate you :p

Not to say that this isn't great..

I do agree that the Laser cap usage bonus is useless though.. I for one would just fit Arty or something and free up cap. If you want to give it an actual bonus to lasers, my personal pref would be tracking speed. Though honestly I'd just rather another bonus for drones, logi, something else, cause I don't care for lasers lol.
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#433 - 2013-10-03 05:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
Since I have nothing better to do than make psuedo fits for this ship since I don't have an EFT file for it. Have an Armor fit. Results of the tank were used via simulation off a Maller hull, which has the same bonuses but 100 less base armor. So roughly the same. We went with lasers since people were bitching at how "impractical" blasters are on a CLOAKY SHIP THAT CAN DICTATE INITIAL ENGAGEMENT RANGE.

[SoE Cruiser Armor]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
10mn Afterburner II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Ogre II x5

1177/1184.5 PG (3% implant needed)
498/500 CPU

Note - I dual propped it because it is possible and some people are into that sort of thing. You can drop the AB and no longer need a 3% PG implant or throw on a 1600mm II (which is about 2k more ehp). You will need a CPU implant for most other mid slot EWAR effects that go above 27 cpu. Another Balmer TD will require a 1% CPU for example.

Highlights.
DPS with the following: Overheats in ()
Conflag - 862(886), 6.8+3.8km
Imp. Navy - 845(867), 6.8+3.8km
Scorch - 816(833), 20+3.8km

EHP (Maller Base) 40,508. Likely about 42k with that extra 100 base. For added fun use Slaves and get 99k EHP (102k with T2 plate). Since this will likely see most of its use in low-sec I don't see why not to use slaves.

Speed - I am again just ballparking, it has less mass than a Nomen, but rather poor base speed. So probably, 1600m/s MWD speed give or take, 400-450m/s AB. Doubtful its cap stable with everything running, but with a Scram and a Web you can shut off the MWD when you get close and not give a damn.

===============================================

And another! Because people are going to want to fly this at max disruption range for some reason. It is painful to fly a drone boat like this, especially one that would rely on heavies, but here have a fit.

[SoE Cruiser Maximum Doritos Edition]
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I

Berserker II x5
512/515 CPU (Needs 3%)
892/1150 PG (We got lots of space)

Dps = 684(702) w/ Scorch at 20km+3.8.
Tank, Again Maller base = 16,359 EHP, 352 omnitank with AAR. Almost definitely cap stable with the booster running, cap probably lasts ~3 minutes without it. Ballpark guesses without the regen stats.
Speed = Take previous speed, add about 200m/s with the removal of the plate.

Berserkers will be flying around at 2048 m/s which is enough to catch most cruisers. Otherwise drop down to Hammerheads and do 465 dps.

==============================

Finally, I figured that this could make for a rather funny Sentry Sniper Boat...

[SoE Cruiser, Dew the Dew Edition]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II


Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Bouncer II x5

Dps is 657 with Bouncers (60+42km). 573 with Wardens (75+30km). Lock Range goes out past 100 or so.
EHP is 24k. Enough to survive the Alpha of 2-3 sniper fit ships.
Zoom zoom around at ~2500m/s. Laugh at your sub 3 second align time.

I tried to get a fit that used turrets, but to do so would mean dropping the Nanofiber for a Co-Pro and dropping the link augs, forcing you under 60km least you use Drone Control range rigs. The loss of mobility/range for only about 150dps gain is not worth it. I guess you could drop the shield extenders for tracking computers to regain that range, but I figured noone would want to fly such an expensive ship while only having 9k ehp. Although I'll probably use a variation of this fit at some point because the style of play seems fun.

=====

I really have nothing better to do than sit here and make stupid fits for a stupid ship that really should not go live in its current state.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#434 - 2013-10-03 05:27:31 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
The new cruiser looks amazing.
No reason for me to use a cloaky recon anymore :)


Other than, ya know, EWAR bonuses...

The model beats the hell out of all of EWar bonuses who am I kidding Big smile



Who needs ewar when you've got a crapload of damage and a pretty decent tank.
People already roam around in max-gank Falcons & Arazus. This thing is far stronger Cool

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Von Reichenbach
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#435 - 2013-10-03 05:36:18 UTC
Reading everything in the thread, I have to laugh at the people pushing for higher/faster gank...

The cruiser is PERFECT for its role. Travel fit out, drop a "space yurt" to work out of, Cloaky scan some DED sights for bookmark, Refit for PEW and enjoy backpacking over New Eden. Will this power be used in other forms? Possibly... but Carriers soloing 10/10 and Lvl5 missions was never the original plan either.

"Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers"

The Frigate, on the other hand, needs another +5-15 virus strength and has ZERO need for the Scan probe strength. IMHO, If you can't pull down Relic or Data sites with a Sister's set and skills alone... you shouldn't be flying this ship. Also, a 5 second re-cloak would fit well... but not terribly important.

Lastly, It was mentioned earlier and I feel it bears repeating... Create a Special bay just for the Anchorable Depot so you can pack it back in on your way home and make the Anchorable looting module able to tractor in the loot spew from sites. Would be a solo explorer's dream!

"... leave only footprints!" or "Leave no trace!"

Who knew Eve was going ECO friendly???

Von
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2013-10-03 05:41:14 UTC
Dehval wrote:
I really have nothing better to do than sit here and make stupid fits for a stupid ship that really should not go live in its current state.

Did you miss the part where these are supposed to be all in one, solo, exploration ships that can solo a 6/10 complex?

They have to be this powerful to accomplish that.

Also, see what numbers you can get when you fit it for all in one exploitation, complete with probe launcher, cloak, data and relic analyzers. Since you have nothing better to do.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Chocolatier
Scrumptious Chocolate Emporium
#437 - 2013-10-03 05:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Chocolatier
Mara Rinn wrote:

The nearest comparison right now is the Gila. The SOE cruiser has more DPS than a Gila, and can fit a cloak. I agree with your sentiment. A compromise could be the removal of rig slots, reduction of calibration to prevent the use of sentry drone rigs, and the removal of weapon hardpoints.

Replacing 25Mbps of drone control with a logistics bonus would be really nice, IMHO. Why does a new ship have to have DPS as its primary characteristic?


I agree that a different utility bonus would work well, especially since the stated goal of the ship and faction is exploration, not gank 2.0. The problem is that it's also stated to be a solo exploration ship - so supporting bonuses wouldn't fit with that theme; although it would make sense with the faction it comes from.

Fayral wrote:

I think we need to backup here a second. People will always go to extremes when things like this come up. Everyone wants an i win button and of course people are going to try and shoehorn the ship into a pvp gank special. Its upto the devs to ensure its not too powerful in that respect. Nerfing the drone bay way down is counter intuitive to what the stated goals of the ship are. Long deployments of solo exploration and taking out targets of opportunity.


Right; I'm voicing my concern in a topic created by the developers in an effort to have my opinion heard. I do not agree with your argument that nerfing the drone bay is counter-intuitive. If the goal is "Long deployments of solo exploration", then perhaps the ship could have an ability to resupply the drone bay from the cargo bay after a period of 10 minutes of being PvP inactive - while increasing the overall cargo hold of the ship. Then you are looking at say a 100mb/100m3 drones, with an ability to swap a different set from your cargo bay out of combat, actually increasing your extended drone bay to whatever your cargo capacity can hold, while decreasing the absurd 500m3 in combat bay.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#438 - 2013-10-03 05:46:06 UTC
THE GOOD: I am waiting for it and drooling. That much dps from a cov op cloaky ship with tank and with agility... WOOHOO

THE BAD: Current iteration is over powered, clearly. But... please please keep it as is :D We can paly with it for a month or so and you can nerf it afterwards :D :D :D

THE UGLY: You do realise this will chew into the role of cloaky proteus etc (not necessarily a bad thing tbh) and the Blops (this is bad indeed).
Sylveria Relden
#439 - 2013-10-03 05:59:28 UTC
+2 (one for each)

I especially love the new design direction- sleek & symmetrical, and it has a visible drone bay for a drone ship. The skin preview is also nice, although I'm sure the color may change before release.

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)
Fayral
Nano Currency
Yeet. Pray. Love.
#440 - 2013-10-03 06:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fayral
Chocolatier wrote:


Right; I'm voicing my concern in a topic created by the developers in an effort to have my opinion heard. I do not agree with your argument that nerfing the drone bay is counter-intuitive. If the goal is "Long deployments of solo exploration", then perhaps the ship could have an ability to resupply the drone bay from the cargo bay after a period of 10 minutes of being PvP inactive - while increasing the overall cargo hold of the ship. Then you are looking at say a 100mb/100m3 drones, with an ability to swap a different set from your cargo bay out of combat, actually increasing your extended drone bay to whatever your cargo capacity can hold, while decreasing the absurd 500m3 in combat bay.




You do not agree its counter intuitive yet you provide an alternative to the problem i stated. Sounds like you agree with me on that.

The 500m3 bay is a bit absurd, but if its going to be a drone focused cruiser it should have 125 m3 bandwidth. just like the Gila, Ishtar and Navy Vexor.

You need at least some room for drone losses. Think about it. Some new mechanic with restricted timers is NOT the answer.