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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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how about we make it an act of aggression to actively scan a ship?

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Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2013-10-02 21:47:45 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I dont see cargo or ship scanning as an act that needs to be given any kind of timer. You are not and have not committed a crime. What I do have an issue with is that a Cargo Scan is a pretty serious scan that should not be able to be done passively. Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned. Once the scanner has been identified, its time to bookmark him as a potential ganker, and if you are carrying valuable cargo and you see him or her in system, it might be time to dock up till they leave.


Dock up you say....interesting. Now tell me how you would get anything in any trade hubs in EVE if every hauler was docking up when they spotted a ganker? Please read the whole thread and then post a suitable answer to the OP.

EDIT:

Now I agree with the "Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned" and it should go further. I refer to the "intent to steal" and "popping the lorry doors" analogy that has been made several times in previous posts.

EDIT 2: While it's not the ganking that this thread is against (that shizz gonna happen) it's the lack of consequences for the person scanning and then tipping of the gankers.

If you are carrying valuable cargo into a trade hub, a timer or suspect status for getting scanned is moot. You are already targeted and they will have a criminal tag before anyone notices a suspect tag.

With the tipping off portion, A suspect flag will likely help the gankers or have no effect at all as they will use their scan ships to not only tip them off to good cargo, but also as bait so they can warp in for some combat with no Concord interference..

As for a full criminal flag, I cant support that for two reasons. 1. If the pirates stop, it will make hauling even more boring than it already is. 2. Instead of targeted ganking with intel, pirates might just start hitting randomly. Not a nice thought.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#142 - 2013-10-02 22:11:02 UTC
Gargep Farrow wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I dont see cargo or ship scanning as an act that needs to be given any kind of timer. You are not and have not committed a crime. What I do have an issue with is that a Cargo Scan is a pretty serious scan that should not be able to be done passively. Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned. Once the scanner has been identified, its time to bookmark him as a potential ganker, and if you are carrying valuable cargo and you see him or her in system, it might be time to dock up till they leave.


Dock up you say....interesting. Now tell me how you would get anything in any trade hubs in EVE if every hauler was docking up when they spotted a ganker? Please read the whole thread and then post a suitable answer to the OP.

EDIT:

Now I agree with the "Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned" and it should go further. I refer to the "intent to steal" and "popping the lorry doors" analogy that has been made several times in previous posts.

EDIT 2: While it's not the ganking that this thread is against (that shizz gonna happen) it's the lack of consequences for the person scanning and then tipping of the gankers.

If you are carrying valuable cargo into a trade hub, a timer or suspect status for getting scanned is moot. You are already targeted and they will have a criminal tag before anyone notices a suspect tag.

With the tipping off portion, A suspect flag will likely help the gankers or have no effect at all as they will use their scan ships to not only tip them off to good cargo, but also as bait so they can warp in for some combat with no Concord interference..

As for a full criminal flag, I cant support that for two reasons. 1. If the pirates stop, it will make hauling even more boring than it already is. 2. Instead of targeted ganking with intel, pirates might just start hitting randomly. Not a nice thought.


I'm just going to say read the actual thread in it's entirety as it's a PITA to repeat what's already been said.

On the random though...they'd soon give that up as it'd become unsustainable if they were profit\loss gankers.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Michael Lovetto
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-10-02 22:27:18 UTC
How 'bout...... no.
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2013-10-02 22:35:19 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I dont see cargo or ship scanning as an act that needs to be given any kind of timer. You are not and have not committed a crime. What I do have an issue with is that a Cargo Scan is a pretty serious scan that should not be able to be done passively. Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned. Once the scanner has been identified, its time to bookmark him as a potential ganker, and if you are carrying valuable cargo and you see him or her in system, it might be time to dock up till they leave.


Dock up you say....interesting. Now tell me how you would get anything in any trade hubs in EVE if every hauler was docking up when they spotted a ganker? Please read the whole thread and then post a suitable answer to the OP.

EDIT:

Now I agree with the "Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned" and it should go further. I refer to the "intent to steal" and "popping the lorry doors" analogy that has been made several times in previous posts.

EDIT 2: While it's not the ganking that this thread is against (that shizz gonna happen) it's the lack of consequences for the person scanning and then tipping of the gankers.

If you are carrying valuable cargo into a trade hub, a timer or suspect status for getting scanned is moot. You are already targeted and they will have a criminal tag before anyone notices a suspect tag.

With the tipping off portion, A suspect flag will likely help the gankers or have no effect at all as they will use their scan ships to not only tip them off to good cargo, but also as bait so they can warp in for some combat with no Concord interference..

As for a full criminal flag, I cant support that for two reasons. 1. If the pirates stop, it will make hauling even more boring than it already is. 2. Instead of targeted ganking with intel, pirates might just start hitting randomly. Not a nice thought.


I'm just going to say read the actual thread in it's entirety as it's a PITA to repeat what's already been said.

On the random though...they'd soon give that up as it'd become unsustainable if they were profit\loss gankers.

Not likely, and after further thought piracy would likely continue at the same level even if scanning became a Concordable offense. So what if pirates lose 15 million isk in cheap ships to find that hauler with 100 + million in cargo. they still profit. It will cut their profits a bit, but not enough to thin their ranks by meaningful numbers.

I have read the thread and do agree that pirates have it too easy with scanning, but I already listed the reasons I disagree with most of the suggested fixes. The one decent idea had to do with reducing and randomizing the accuracy of the scans. Guns dont hit with 100% accuracy so why should cargo scanners? That is a suggestion I would fully support.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#145 - 2013-10-02 22:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I have read the thread and do agree that pirates have it too easy with scanning, but I already listed the reasons I disagree with most of the suggested fixes. The one decent idea had to do with reducing and randomizing the accuracy of the scans. Guns dont hit with 100% accuracy so why should cargo scanners? That is a suggestion I would fully support.


Then my apologies. Now that is an interesting idea but I personally disagree and think that your average "scan and gank" char would soon go do something more profitable or turn professional...still interesting ideas.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2013-10-02 22:57:11 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I have read the thread and do agree that pirates have it too easy with scanning, but I already listed the reasons I disagree with most of the suggested fixes. The one decent idea had to do with reducing and randomizing the accuracy of the scans. Guns dont hit with 100% accuracy so why should cargo scanners? That is a suggestion I would fully support.


Then my apologies. Now that is an interesting idea but I personally disagree and think that your average "scan and gank" char would soon go do something more profitable or turn professional...still interesting ideas.

Profit isnt everything in this game, doing what you enjoy tends to come first, I am a miner and I know the are many more profitable things to do in EVE yet I still will spend an entire evening sitting in a belt popping rocks because I am one of those sick individuals that actually finds it relaxing and enjoyable.. I have no doubt the pirates feel the same way about what they do.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#147 - 2013-10-02 23:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Gargep Farrow wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I have read the thread and do agree that pirates have it too easy with scanning, but I already listed the reasons I disagree with most of the suggested fixes. The one decent idea had to do with reducing and randomizing the accuracy of the scans. Guns dont hit with 100% accuracy so why should cargo scanners? That is a suggestion I would fully support.


Then my apologies. Now that is an interesting idea but I personally disagree and think that your average "scan and gank" char would soon go do something more profitable or turn professional...still interesting ideas.

Profit isnt everything in this game, doing what you enjoy tends to come first, I am a miner and I know the are many more profitable things to do in EVE yet I still will spend an entire evening sitting in a belt popping rocks because I am one of those sick individuals that actually finds it relaxing and enjoyable.. I have no doubt the pirates feel the same way about what they do.


I'm actually one of those people that mines for a break too...it's very therapeutic I have to say. But those that gank have to get the ISK from somewhere and they "scan and gank" to look for the targets cargo to pay for their ships...goons exempt OFC with the Burn Jita event Twisted. I think you'll find few who do it for the lols...but they're out there.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#148 - 2013-10-03 02:13:07 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
And that there's no defence or way to combat the gankers except to just re-ship and try again?


ummmm.....

Daichi Yamato wrote:
...so even if scanners go suspect, the best counter to ganks are STILL and ALWAYS WILL BE:

1) carry less/take more trips
2) avoid dangerous systems
or failing both of those,
3) fly with scouts, logi, webbers, boosters and ECM buds.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#149 - 2013-10-03 02:32:46 UTC
ISD Tyrozan wrote:
Trolling post and personal atttack post were removed.

Forum rule 5. Trolling is prohibited.



i love your totally unbiased censorship skills. you're like...really good...at your job. keep up the GREAT work tyrozan, we need more level headed mods LIKE YOU that dont let personal interest cloud their judgment. if you could just hang around this thread for a few moar days and make sure nobodies feelings get hurt id really appreciate it. im sure the rest of F&I wont mind.


http://i.imgur.com/6oU66.jpg

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#150 - 2013-10-03 03:21:58 UTC
Gargep Farrow wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gargep Farrow wrote:
I dont see cargo or ship scanning as an act that needs to be given any kind of timer. You are not and have not committed a crime. What I do have an issue with is that a Cargo Scan is a pretty serious scan that should not be able to be done passively. Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned. Once the scanner has been identified, its time to bookmark him as a potential ganker, and if you are carrying valuable cargo and you see him or her in system, it might be time to dock up till they leave.


Dock up you say....interesting. Now tell me how you would get anything in any trade hubs in EVE if every hauler was docking up when they spotted a ganker? Please read the whole thread and then post a suitable answer to the OP.

EDIT:

Now I agree with the "Scanning cargo through both hull and armor should be detectable. There should be some kind of alarm tone to notify you that you have been scanned" and it should go further. I refer to the "intent to steal" and "popping the lorry doors" analogy that has been made several times in previous posts.

EDIT 2: While it's not the ganking that this thread is against (that shizz gonna happen) it's the lack of consequences for the person scanning and then tipping of the gankers.

If you are carrying valuable cargo into a trade hub, a timer or suspect status for getting scanned is moot. You are already targeted and they will have a criminal tag before anyone notices a suspect tag.

With the tipping off portion, A suspect flag will likely help the gankers or have no effect at all as they will use their scan ships to not only tip them off to good cargo, but also as bait so they can warp in for some combat with no Concord interference..

As for a full criminal flag, I cant support that for two reasons. 1. If the pirates stop, it will make hauling even more boring than it already is. 2. Instead of targeted ganking with intel, pirates might just start hitting randomly. Not a nice thought.

i will undock my alt in an empty hauler to see him get scanned and pop the scanner
pop
pop
pop
pop

do you feel your world fading away?
every time you scan,
pop
ill be there...guns hot.
pop.
i can see it now..782 noob ship kills. and you spend alllll that money on scanners and new alts and more scanners and more alts.
and thats the first day.
pop
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#151 - 2013-10-04 10:20:54 UTC
anyone else?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#152 - 2013-10-04 11:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Mole Guy wrote:
anyone else?


Sure, I'll throw my hat back in the ring.

Your idea is senseless, baseless, pointless, and useless.

Not only would it not solve any actual problem beyond your childlike need for petty revenge after a loss you could have avoided, but it would also render use of the modules in question for legitimate uses a suspect flag act.

In short, your idea will never be implemented because not only is it a bad idea, but CCP has a tendency not to design module features around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.

Yeah, that's the other reason, I forgot. There already exists a way around the so called problem you want to fix with this.

[Edit: So basically, you do not have the right to ask for features to de-facto legislate people you don't like out of existence just because you were playing the game wrong in the first place. If you learn to play the game the right way, you will find that you have a lot less upsets and losses. Try it sometime.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#153 - 2013-10-04 11:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.


Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#154 - 2013-10-04 11:29:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
anyone else?


Sure, I'll throw my hat back in the ring.

Your idea is senseless, baseless, pointless, and useless.

Not only would it not solve any actual problem beyond your childlike need for petty revenge after a loss you could have avoided, but it would also render use of the modules in question for legitimate uses a suspect flag act.

In short, your idea will never be implemented because not only is it a bad idea, but CCP has a tendency not to design module features around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.

Yeah, that's the other reason, I forgot. There already exists a way around the so called problem you want to fix with this.

[Edit: So basically, you do not have the right to ask for features to de-facto legislate people you don't like out of existence just because you were playing the game wrong in the first place. If you learn to play the game the right way, you will find that you have a lot less upsets and losses. Try it sometime.

i would rather shoot people who invade my privacy.
senseless? no, i wanna cut down on suicide ganking. cutting the head off of the snake will help over time. itll be costly to continue.
baseless? wrong, there are tons of people who get ganked every day.
pointless? there is a point, its been made.
useless? maybe for you, but for those of us who want to clean up eve, we would use it for such a way.
it WOULD turn the tables on those who have been preying on everyone else. they implemented crime watch for us to hunt you pirates down, this would be just another extension of said feature.

i dont mine being targeted or passive targeted, but once you activate the web or point or scanner, it should be game on...
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#155 - 2013-10-04 11:30:51 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.


Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?

thanx..i didnt wanna point out the obvious. =)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#156 - 2013-10-04 11:42:51 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.


Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?


It doesn't? Hmm, that's what I get for not hauling anything in a ship that isn't named Prowler for the last year or so.

Well, the point still stands. He flew about 700 mil in an untanked Mammoth, if I got the killmail right. Nothing about that is anything but his fault.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#157 - 2013-10-04 11:44:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
anyone else?


Sure, I'll throw my hat back in the ring.

Your idea is senseless, baseless, pointless, and useless.

Not only would it not solve any actual problem beyond your childlike need for petty revenge after a loss you could have avoided, but it would also render use of the modules in question for legitimate uses a suspect flag act.

In short, your idea will never be implemented because not only is it a bad idea, but CCP has a tendency not to design module features around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.

Yeah, that's the other reason, I forgot. There already exists a way around the so called problem you want to fix with this.

[Edit: So basically, you do not have the right to ask for features to de-facto legislate people you don't like out of existence just because you were playing the game wrong in the first place. If you learn to play the game the right way, you will find that you have a lot less upsets and losses. Try it sometime.


Also requested an edit from ISD for multiple breaches of the Forum Rules. Your posting was as offensive as your knowledge of "double-wrapping":

Forum rules

2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

7. Use of profanity is prohibited.

The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.

22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#158 - 2013-10-04 11:46:33 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.


Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?


It doesn't? Hmm, that's what I get for not hauling anything in a ship that isn't named Prowler for the last year or so.

Well, the point still stands. He flew about 700 mil in an untanked Mammoth, if I got the killmail right. Nothing about that is anything but his fault.


OK, this kind of reply I can get one with. I believe (if you're talking about Mole Guy) that he admitted it was his fault? But we're aren't talking about ganking and gank squads, we're talking about the intelligence gathering\cargo scanning to be more precise.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#159 - 2013-10-04 11:50:22 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
around butthurt morons who can't be asked to double wrap their cargo.


Double wrapping doesn't work any more...now someone point out the moron here?


It doesn't? Hmm, that's what I get for not hauling anything in a ship that isn't named Prowler for the last year or so.

Well, the point still stands. He flew about 700 mil in an untanked Mammoth, if I got the killmail right. Nothing about that is anything but his fault.


OK, this kind of reply I can get one with. I believe (if you're talking about Mole Guy) that he admitted it was his fault? But we're aren't talking about ganking and gank squads, we're talking about the intelligence gathering\cargo scanning to be more precise.


Yes, we are. And that's not a hostile act.

And given the very existence of the passive scanning module, clearly such gameplay is intended. So what are we even talking about here, aside from a childish desire to get back at people for taking advantage of his foolish mistake?

They played within the rules. You died.

Get over it, and learn from it, don't leap feet first into the forums and beg for changes to the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#160 - 2013-10-04 12:13:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Yes, we are. And that's not a hostile act.

And given the very existence of the passive scanning module, clearly such gameplay is intended. So what are we even talking about here, aside from a childish desire to get back at people for taking advantage of his foolish mistake?

They played within the rules. You died.

Get over it, and learn from it, don't leap feet first into the forums and beg for changes to the game.


The OP has openly admitted that was his mistake and this is F&I so he is proposing a change. He has stated why and the to and fro are all in this thread.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!