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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Peace between the Empire and the Republic, a Moderate viewpoint
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Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#141 - 2013-10-02 18:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Eran Mintor
You won't find it explicitly stated in any history books anymore as it's been progressively erased. It's a piece of our past that people don't like to talk about, much like people don't like to talk about how there are a large number of Matari in the Cartel enslaving people.

From the public neo-com portal on the Minmatar race:

Quote:
In the distant past the clans constantly warred against each other. Since then, however, Minmatar have learned that cooperation is more important, and although the clans still try to maintain their regional and ideological identities, they act as a single unit towards other races.


Nowhere does it explicitly say they enslaved each other, but what do you think happened to all the clans that no longer exist? Do you really think there were only 7 tribes to begin with?

You should hear the stories of what happened during the Rebellion to our own people by our own people...the women got it the worst. Just because they don't teach you some things in school doesn't mean they never happened or exist in the world.

As far as it being a tenuous peace, it took over 2000 years for the peace to come about. 2000 years of war is hard to forget, probably harder to forget than 1000 years of slavery. Just look at the Tribal Council if you doubt me, where racial pride and cultures are the center of arguments and dispute.

-Eran

edit : This was directed at Mitar. I do agree with the points Mr. Tuulinen makes, though.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#142 - 2013-10-02 18:56:24 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
You won't find it explicitly stated in any history books anymore as it's been progressively erased. It's a piece of our past that people don't like to talk about, much like people don't like to talk about how there are a large number of Matari in the Cartel enslaving people.

From the public neo-com portal on the Minmatar race:

Quote:
In the distant past the clans constantly warred against each other. Since then, however, Minmatar have learned that cooperation is more important, and although the clans still try to maintain their regional and ideological identities, they act as a single unit towards other races.


Nowhere does it explicitly say they enslaved each other, but what do you think happened to all the clans that no longer exist? Do you really think there were only 7 tribes to begin with?

You should hear the stories of what happened during the Rebellion to our own people by our own people...the women got it the worst. Just because they don't teach you some things in school doesn't mean they never happened or exist in the world.

As far as it being a tenuous peace, it took over 2000 years for the peace to come about. 2000 years of war is hard to forget, probably harder to forget than 1000 years of slavery. Just look at the Tribal Council if you doubt me, where racial pride and cultures are the center of arguments and dispute.

-Eran

edit : This was directed at Mitar. I do agree with the points Mr. Tuulinen makes, though.
So there we have it proof positive you are a liar, your constant commentaries prove you are a turncoat. As i stated earlier history is not kind to turncoats and liars and you are both, a walking talking obscenity.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#143 - 2013-10-02 19:00:09 UTC
Do some research on the Daughters of the Revolution. When you are finished, let's see where you stand.

-Eran
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#144 - 2013-10-02 19:20:00 UTC
Cain Aloga wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I do not expect you to understand where my sentiment comes from. I do not think that some one without a deep understand of Tribal culture would. I will however attempt to explain in it so that you may have a better understanding of our way of thinking.

I am not saddened that she does not choose to live in the Republic. Many of our people reside outside the borders, and that in itself is not an issue. I myself have spent some time in Caldari space, and I have relatives who live within the Federation. What saddens me is that she is renouncing her heritage. She has chosen to give up her Tribe, which to a tribesmen is similar to cutting off our own legs or arms. Our tribes form a part of who we are. They are an integral part of our essence. To renounce it is paramount to renouncing a part of yourself.

I hope that answers your question.


There are grossly two kinds of slaves.

- Labor slaves that are used as base work force in the Empire. Most of their owners and Holders usually do not have the means or just the will to address their education and Reclaiming properly. Some are even considered barely more than cattle.

- Reclaimed slaves, raised to proper amarrian upbringings. Some even go to school with commoners native children.

There is also a third kind of Matari originated individuals, and those are Ammatars, and their upbringing is similar to the latter reclaimed slaves, bare their social status.

Tribes usually do not mean anything for the two last groups, especially after having been diluted in a few generations. That is basically the concept behind cultural assimilation.

Why would they care for a culture that is not theirs ?
Marnian Veroe
National Republican Party
#145 - 2013-10-02 19:31:32 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:

Some more interesting articles when put in the perspective of Colelie would be when Amarr demanded extradition of an Angel Cartel member caught in Federation space, and then got their prisoner without having to shoot anyone. Curious how diplomacy works.


The Amarr Empire has always been more reliable than the fickle and ungrateful Minmatar Republic.

The Gallente-Minmatar relationship is a pure product of realpolitik, not much different from the one between the Caldari and the Amarr.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#146 - 2013-10-02 19:43:00 UTC
Sadly the predictable psychosis afflicting numerous freed slaves as well as the statistically projectable many current slaves as exhibited in these forums by the likes of Eran, Samira, Lyn, and several others is indicative of the well known “hostage syndrome” where the hostage starts to, after an incredibly short period of time, identify with the hostage taker.

This form of perverse psychological illness is only exaggerated by years of enslavement for the poor souls who succumb to it. With Eran, Samira, and Lyn the persistence of their delusions, lies, and transference of guilt for their current wretched state is both heart breaking and textbook perfect.

The psychologically damaged, just another bit of the legacy of enslavement the Minmatar people will have to deal with long after any peace treaty is signed.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#147 - 2013-10-02 19:47:51 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
Sadly the predictable psychosis afflicting numerous freed slaves as well as the statistically projectable many current slaves as exhibited in these forums by the likes of Eran, Samira, Lyn, and several others is indicative of the well known “hostage syndrome” where the hostage starts to, after an incredibly short period of time, identify with the hostage taker.

This form of perverse psychological illness is only exaggerated by years of enslavement for the poor souls who succumb to it. With Eran, Samira, and Lyn the persistence of their delusions, lies, and transference of guilt for their current wretched state is both heart breaking and textbook perfect.

The psychologically damaged, just another bit of the legacy of enslavement the Minmatar people will have to deal with long after any peace treaty is signed.


Wow! I'd love to see an independent study on this. Or is this more of your 'Amarrians are evil so anyone who agress with Amarrians must be evil or deluded' psychosis?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#148 - 2013-10-02 19:48:11 UTC
It's unfortunate your brain capacity only allows you to attack individuals rather than the topics being discussed. I pity you.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#149 - 2013-10-02 19:51:41 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Sadly the predictable psychosis afflicting numerous freed slaves as well as the statistically projectable many current slaves as exhibited in these forums by the likes of Eran, Samira, Lyn, and several others is indicative of the well known “hostage syndrome” where the hostage starts to, after an incredibly short period of time, identify with the hostage taker.

This form of perverse psychological illness is only exaggerated by years of enslavement for the poor souls who succumb to it. With Eran, Samira, and Lyn the persistence of their delusions, lies, and transference of guilt for their current wretched state is both heart breaking and textbook perfect.

The psychologically damaged, just another bit of the legacy of enslavement the Minmatar people will have to deal with long after any peace treaty is signed.


Wow! I'd love to see an independent study on this. Or is this more of your 'Amarrians are evil so anyone who agress with Amarrians must be evil or deluded' psychosis?
If you are not familiar with the Hostage Syndrome I'd suggest you start your research there.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#150 - 2013-10-02 19:56:48 UTC
How's your research into the Daughters of the Revolution, by the way? Unable to find someone to recollect the stories to you? It's a gut-wrenching part of our history and you of all people should know about it if you're going to be so violent in your demands for emancipation. It's a warning from history.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#151 - 2013-10-02 20:04:41 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
It's unfortunate your brain capacity only allows you to attack individuals rather than the topics being discussed. I pity you.

-Eran
My brain capacity is being challenged by you (which is an individual attack) because it only allows me to attack individuals rather than the topic diiscussed. The individuals I set forth as examples had everything to do with the topic, unless of course you are making the ground breaking psychiatric and psychological assertion that war and slavery in no way damages the mental or psychological health of those subjected to it.

War and the killing other human beings, even the false God worshipping amarrians exacts a toll on normal people, I am haunted and yes even damaged by my actions taken in war, because being a killer/ murderer of other humans of any race is not the natural state of healthy humans. War is not a fit activity for humankind in New Eden, I for one look forward to its end so I can begin my own healing process, if after all my deeds that is ever possible.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2013-10-02 20:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Ray Mitar wrote:
So there we have it proof positive you are a liar, your constant commentaries prove you are a turncoat. As i stated earlier history is not kind to turncoats and liars and you are both, a walking talking obscenity.


What's interesting Mr.Mitar is how rather than trying to disprove the opposition and back up your own arguments, you just call people liars, especially Mr. Mintor, who has produced evidence for each and every one of his claims throughout this discussion where you have produced none.

The burden of proof rest on you, making wild claims without a shred of evidence makes you the liar.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#153 - 2013-10-02 20:11:18 UTC
I've only finally resulted in attacking your person by challenging your brain capacity because personal attacks seems to be your language and I've long past given up hope of a logical discourse with you due to your stubbornness, naivety, and inability to argue for and against points. You do make for a good rabble-rouser though.

The individuals are people putting forth ideas. If you have an issue with their ideas, attack their position, not their person. If you have an issue with the person then that is another matter completely and doesn't have an impact on the discussions taking place.

As far as war not being a fit activity for humankind...war is natural to humankind. It is even healthy in some few ways.

Take care of yourself pilot. Don't let thinking give you a headache.

-Eran
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#154 - 2013-10-02 20:11:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Ah, the passions that flare from discussions about the Amarr and the Minmatar. Great peoples, great histories, great crimes, and great hatreds, all distilled into a tiny microcosm where great egos hurl great arguments and great insults with great futility.

Meanwhile the great beasts that are our nations growl and nip at each other, too hesitant to fully launch into the frey but too hungry and angry to back down. Taken like this, it is difficult to think of any way that the conflict might stop that does not involve quite a bit of blood and fur.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#155 - 2013-10-02 20:14:48 UTC
Blood and....fur? Are you one of those with a Furry fetish, Aldy? Heheheh..

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#156 - 2013-10-02 20:15:32 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
So there we have it proof positive you are a liar, your constant commentaries prove you are a turncoat. As i stated earlier history is not kind to turncoats and liars and you are both, a walking talking obscenity.


It's interesting Mr.Mitar is how rather than trying to disprove the opposition and back up your own arguments, you just call people liars, especially Mr. Mintor, who has produced evidence for each and every one of his claims throughout this discussion where you have produced none.

The burden of proof rest on you, making wild claims without a shred of evidence makes you the liar.

You should read the thread, he stated as a fact something he later admitted he had no historical proof of, in essence wholly formed from his own non-fact based conclusions. I didn't just call him a liar i proved him a liar. Stay up to speed.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#157 - 2013-10-02 20:27:53 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
I've only finally resulted in attacking your person by challenging your brain capacity because personal attacks seems to be your language and I've long past given up hope of a logical discourse with you due to your stubbornness, naivety, and inability to argue for and against points. You do make for a good rabble-rouser though.

The individuals are people putting forth ideas. If you have an issue with their ideas, attack their position, not their person. If you have an issue with the person then that is another matter completely and doesn't have an impact on the discussions taking place.

As far as war not being a fit activity for humankind...war is natural to humankind. It is even healthy in some few ways.

Take care of yourself pilot. Don't let thinking give you a headache.

-Eran
When you call a tall man tall, or a short man short is that a personal attack? No more so then calling a turncoat a turncoat or a liar a liar. You don't hesitate to embrace your bloody past against Minmatar people but when confronted with the truth of your lies you buckle under. Some ideas mouthed by lunatics, the deranged, and the insane do not merit or even have the possibility of reasoned discussion, they are fabrications. What good argument should I put forth to counter your fabricated Matari slavery fable? I am not perfect and when I am proven to be in error I will try and learn from it and move on.

You I am confident have never yet had a headache from thinking.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#158 - 2013-10-02 20:29:05 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Blood and....fur? Are you one of those with a Furry fetish, Aldy? Heheheh..

-Eran


No, no. I was simply suggesting that we make those sorts fight first so that we can get to the serious business of properly securing peace.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2013-10-02 20:31:06 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
You should read the thread, he stated as a fact something he later admitted he had no historical proof of, in essence wholly formed from his own non-fact based conclusions. I didn't just call him a liar i proved him a liar. Stay up to speed.


That doesn't make him a liar. He is fully aware that he has no solid proof and is willing to acknowledge that even if it risks poking a hole in the argument. That's what speculation is all about really.

You on the other hand know you don't have solid proof but try to pass off your claims as fact anyway. That makes you a liar.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#160 - 2013-10-02 20:32:12 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Sadly the predictable psychosis afflicting numerous freed slaves as well as the statistically projectable many current slaves as exhibited in these forums by the likes of Eran, Samira, Lyn, and several others is indicative of the well known “hostage syndrome” where the hostage starts to, after an incredibly short period of time, identify with the hostage taker.

This form of perverse psychological illness is only exaggerated by years of enslavement for the poor souls who succumb to it. With Eran, Samira, and Lyn the persistence of their delusions, lies, and transference of guilt for their current wretched state is both heart breaking and textbook perfect.

The psychologically damaged, just another bit of the legacy of enslavement the Minmatar people will have to deal with long after any peace treaty is signed.


Wow! I'd love to see an independent study on this. Or is this more of your 'Amarrians are evil so anyone who agress with Amarrians must be evil or deluded' psychosis?
If you are not familiar with the Hostage Syndrome I'd suggest you start your research there.


I'm aware of it, I just don't think it applies to this situation. Hostage Syndrome is something that occurs in the short term over, a period of days to months. What you're talking about is the standard cultural imprinting that ALL of us are heir to. If you want to question the way that Samira's upbringing molded her, you're equally questioning the way that my upbringing molded me and yours molded you.

Just because you disagree with the culture that she imprinted on, doesn't invalidate it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.