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Cloaky, Nullified Strategic Cruisers
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Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-16 03:57:00 UTC
Player A has armor
Player B designs a sword to defeat player A's armor
Player A designs armor that defeats player B's armor 95% of the time
Player B demands that "they" need to nerf player A's armor because their sword's effectivness is lowered

What's wrong with this picture?

Working as intended

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#62 - 2011-11-16 04:31:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

This is why I push for point-to-point system warp capabilities for more ships.

Sometimes a null camper will give good advice on the forums in how to avoid bubbles but that works mainly against bubble campers who are bad at it. Even after a short time of avoiding bubbles I started to figure out how to counter the counters and if I can figure that out, anybody can.


Until then, the Great Wall of Carebear is not coming down. The only thing I send into gate camps and bubbles is a cheap T1-equiped alt.




Oh, its plenty possible to counter any cloaked rush out if you have a fast ship at your disposal. But then, it is possible to juke said ship's trajectory (though it is cutting it quite close). These mind games can go quite deep.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#63 - 2011-11-16 05:03:34 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

This is why I push for point-to-point system warp capabilities for more ships.

Sometimes a null camper will give good advice on the forums in how to avoid bubbles but that works mainly against bubble campers who are bad at it. Even after a short time of avoiding bubbles I started to figure out how to counter the counters and if I can figure that out, anybody can.


Until then, the Great Wall of Carebear is not coming down. The only thing I send into gate camps and bubbles is a cheap T1-equiped alt.




Oh, its plenty possible to counter any cloaked rush out if you have a fast ship at your disposal. But then, it is possible to juke said ship's trajectory (though it is cutting it quite close). These mind games can go quite deep.


Strategy.... in a game.... go figure....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#64 - 2011-11-16 05:26:15 UTC
To kill the T3 Cruiser, shoot at it until it dies.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#65 - 2011-11-16 05:32:57 UTC
You're doing something wrong. Very wrong.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Kuzzka
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2011-11-16 07:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuzzka
So nothing should be able to survive/avoid PVP junkies? I want also to remind you it's a TECH 3 ship, it does suppose to have some advantage, because when you kill it pilot loose not just the ship, but the sub skill. Also Tengu with Cloak subsystem does really loose a lot of DPS.
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#67 - 2011-11-17 18:22:49 UTC
Kuzzka wrote:
So nothing should be able to survive/avoid PVP junkies? I want also to remind you it's a TECH 3 ship, it does suppose to have some advantage, because when you kill it pilot loose not just the ship, but the sub skill. Also Tengu with Cloak subsystem does really loose a lot of DPS.


There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#68 - 2011-11-17 18:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
fRoDdEr's wrote:

There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.


QFT.

A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught.

A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec.

I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.

EDIT:

Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist Fit

High: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak
Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II
Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II
Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II
Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier

= Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler

Signatures should be used responsibly...
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#69 - 2011-11-17 18:31:11 UTC
Gogela wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:

There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.


QFT.

A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught.

A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec.

I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.




Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere.
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-11-17 19:44:51 UTC
or... you could devise a new tactic to stop these "overpowered" ships? maybe? its is possible...

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2011-11-17 20:48:59 UTC
Gogela wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:

There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.


QFT.

A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught.

A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec.

I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.

EDIT:

Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist Fit
High: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak
Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II
Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II
Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II
Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier

= Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler


Hey look how bad at EVE you are.


You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.


1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.

1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.

2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k


If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.

You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#72 - 2011-11-17 20:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Grath Telkin wrote:

Hey look how bad at EVE you are.


You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.


1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.

1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.

2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k


If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.

You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.


Do you want a cookie? So you caught a moron. Sweet story bro. I've never been caught hauling in null using that fit. I've blown through huge camps. I guess everyone sucks but you, eh? Many have tried what you propose... and once in a blue moon I even get de-cloaked... but it's not enough... I'm already in warp. I am 5'10" and weigh 165. Not fat... I don't know why you hate fat people. Sounds like a personal issue. I'm not a therapist and I don't care about your personal problems, FYI. Throwing toys around the room? Screaming? Hmm... it's also interesting that you make that connection to passive aggressive posts and cynicism. ...again... not a therapist. Whine all you like. I'm in-fricking-vinceable. There's nothing you can do about it.

fRoDdEr's wrote:
Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere.


Yup. I agree. Bubbles make it easy in null..

Signatures should be used responsibly...
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#73 - 2011-11-17 21:00:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Gogela wrote:
fRoDdEr's wrote:

There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.


QFT.

A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught.

A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec.

I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.

EDIT:

Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist Fit
High: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak
Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II
Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II
Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II
Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier

= Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler


Hey look how bad at EVE you are.


You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.


1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.

1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.

2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k


If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.

You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.


If the T3 is plated you might have a very slim chance of this working. Forget it with a shield loki or tengu. 4s and they're out, either they deckoal right ontop of you, or you'll never get to where they were, decloak them and lock it.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2011-11-17 21:03:24 UTC
Gogela wrote:


Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist Fit

High: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak
Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II
Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II
Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II
Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier

= Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler


Spending half a billion for a "hauler" with less than 500m3 cargospace does indeed sound awfully imbalanced.

I just don't understand the logic behind the gatecamper thought process. Why are you allowed to make a gate 100% impassable, but they're not allowed have a fit that can (supposedly) 100% bypass it?
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#75 - 2011-11-17 21:20:40 UTC
Takseen wrote:

Spending half a billion for a "hauler" with less than 500m3 cargospace does indeed sound awfully imbalanced.

I just don't understand the logic behind the gatecamper thought process. Why are you allowed to make a gate 100% impassable, but they're not allowed have a fit that can (supposedly) 100% bypass it?


Well... did you see that angry PL guy up there crying? He came up w/ a fleet of ships specifically tasked / designed to take out my fit there. He still failed. Now think about the guys in that gang. They all wanted a peice of me, and their combined efforts were for naught. What about the 200 man fleet on the gate? Should I be able to get through it... a lone pilot in a lone ship? I think that's why gate campers are miffed. No gate camp is 100% impenetrable if all things are equal. Equal # of haulers and campers? Some of the haulers will get away. Maybe not all... but the 100% effective camp you are describing is negated by the fact that not everything caught in the camp will be destroyed. atm people have gotten very lazy overall using scouts. I almost never see them anymore. Haulers use Blockade runners almost elusively in low sec, and jump freighters in null. Logistics is effortless and without risk in eve. My Tengu fit is over the top yes... but it works. 100% of the time it works every time. In EvE, there should always be a way. The difficulty thwarting one tactic or another may be subject to debate... but there needs to be some way. That's the gripe.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#76 - 2011-11-19 13:47:03 UTC
It is also to note that with cans, its not dependent on skill. But pure luck. You can be the best gate camper on earth, but your chances of getting that Tengu is the same for a RSB'ed noob with a point in a frigate who has no diea whatsoever.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-11-19 13:59:01 UTC
fRoDdEr's wrote:
It is also to note that with cans, its not dependent on skill. But pure luck. You can be the best gate camper on earth, but your chances of getting that Tengu is the same for a RSB'ed noob with a point in a frigate who has no diea whatsoever.


How does the "best gate camper on earth" normally distinguish himself from the noob?
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2011-11-19 14:00:07 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Hey look how bad at EVE you are.


You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.


1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.

1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.

2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k


If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.

You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.


Do you want a cookie? So you caught a moron. Sweet story bro. I've never been caught hauling in null using that fit. I've blown through huge camps. I guess everyone sucks but you, eh? Many have tried what you propose... and once in a blue moon I even get de-cloaked... but it's not enough... I'm already in warp. I am 5'10" and weigh 165. Not fat... I don't know why you hate fat people. Sounds like a personal issue. I'm not a therapist and I don't care about your personal problems, FYI. Throwing toys around the room? Screaming? Hmm... it's also interesting that you make that connection to passive aggressive posts and cynicism. ...again... not a therapist. Whine all you like. I'm in-fricking-vinceable. There's nothing you can do about it.

fRoDdEr's wrote:
Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere.


Yup. I agree. Bubbles make it easy in null..

You dont get it, with a sensor resolution above ~ 2500 you can lock anything before it cloaks after jumpin, with the infipoint you wont go anywhere either.
fRoDdEr's
Ostsupport
#79 - 2011-11-19 14:11:22 UTC
Jack bubu wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Hey look how bad at EVE you are.


You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.


1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.

1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.

2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k


If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.

You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.


Do you want a cookie? So you caught a moron. Sweet story bro. I've never been caught hauling in null using that fit. I've blown through huge camps. I guess everyone sucks but you, eh? Many have tried what you propose... and once in a blue moon I even get de-cloaked... but it's not enough... I'm already in warp. I am 5'10" and weigh 165. Not fat... I don't know why you hate fat people. Sounds like a personal issue. I'm not a therapist and I don't care about your personal problems, FYI. Throwing toys around the room? Screaming? Hmm... it's also interesting that you make that connection to passive aggressive posts and cynicism. ...again... not a therapist. Whine all you like. I'm in-fricking-vinceable. There's nothing you can do about it.

fRoDdEr's wrote:
Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere.


Yup. I agree. Bubbles make it easy in null..

You dont get it, with a sensor resolution above ~ 2500 you can lock anything before it cloaks after jumpin, with the infipoint you wont go anywhere either.


No you can't.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#80 - 2011-11-19 14:14:43 UTC
Jack bubu wrote:

You dont get it, with a sensor resolution above ~ 2500 you can lock anything before it cloaks after jumpin, with the infipoint you wont go anywhere either.


EVE Operates in discrete 1 second ticks. Getting your lock time down below 1second doesn't do you any good. If you are lucky enough to lock, your point will start 1 second later (a t3 likely will not have warped by then, but a proper CovOps will). If they send the command to cloak at the same time they send the one to decloak, they will recloak before you lock. That's why you have your inty pilot burning at them to decloak them, then you can grab them.

T3s are very hard to catch, but they can be caught. Nobody's perfect.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon