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The two basic No-Gos of Eve

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Jered Hakaaros
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-10-02 11:41:45 UTC
Quote:
Not to be rude, but I seriously call BS on this. You're either making this up or you're the creepiest person ever who hangs out at a public computer playing EVE, grabbing the attention of anyone who will listen to show off your favorite !! video !! game !! And of course everyone makes excuses and gets the hell away as fast as possible.


Now that is just mean. I like it :) Of course you were sarcastic, but you would be surprised how many visitors pay attention to the game if you have the Jita undock streamed against a wall in your room with a projector. It just looks stunningly beautiful and despite the reason for their visit, a lot of people want to see what game is behind this. All in all its more than fifty over the years, but around that number were actually playing games themselves so the rest can be counted as "just curious".

Quote:
You're right, it's a graphics sink and most players probably have it off by default (needs statistics). The next logical step is not to add, but to take away this pain in the ass.


Well, planets spin and the weather changes. This is also just cosmetics and requires additional graphics power, but the feature is there for a good reason, because it adds immersion. Now the Captain Quarters just went the wrong way. I dont even want to know how many people were super exicited about this, only to find the station door closed for the first time. However, it still adds immersion, and that is a valid reason for a feature to endure, I think.
Prince Kobol
#42 - 2013-10-02 11:48:27 UTC
Jered Hakaaros wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:
Jered Hakaaros wrote:

That is all the evidence I have. Going from that and my own feelings, I stand by this, bold as it may be: Give players a means to really be able to LIVE in New Eden, and we will need far more than one Rookie Help channel.


“Feelings” do not count as evidence I’m afraid. As to your 50 mates who tried the game… I’ve shown eve to about 10 people, 6 of them are still playing 2 years later.
I don’t think people not being interested in EvE has ANYTHING to do with WiS or space controls. Its simply, as Prince Kobol said, most gamers want their hands held, they want easy games like WoW and CoD that give instant gratification.
That is not EvE, anyone with that mindset will never enjoy this game. This is a game for those of us who enjoy challenge, who like adversity and who thrive and fighting to succeed.


6 out of 10, thats awesome!

But you are still getting my point wrong. I love this game, I dont want to change it, just add to it. May they be players who need hand holding or players who are looking for challenge, when you first try a game you dont know what it has to offer. What counts then is first impression. That first impression is where Eve loses most of its potential new members.

Why do we have Captain Quarters? They dont add anything to the game, they eat up the graphic card like nothing else in the game, and they do not even provide additional interaction. And yet, beginning this game as a newb and seeing your character sitting on this comfortable couch watching Space-News just adds so much to the immersion than simply waking up in a cold station window with Aura trying to text-kill you, as it was before. Looking at the incredible rise in new players since this feature has been added, I cannot help but feel this has a valid contribution. WiS is the next logical step.


I do not hate the the concept of WIS, in fact if correctly implemented it could add a new dimension to the Eve which is a good thing, the problem is I do not have any faith in CCP being able to pull of it, none what so ever.

That is the main reason I will always be against CCP spending so much as 1 more second trying to develop it further.
Takari
Promised Victorious Entropy
#43 - 2013-10-02 11:48:39 UTC
Eggs Ackley wrote:
Hey there is always Secret World.

Why do you have to walk in stations to interact with others? Is this fashion week?


I would play Secret Eve World so hard.. Spaceships with Magic? Gimme dat SpellJammer action!

Still, though, it's not that I'm against WiS, I won't use it but I'm actually all for it just as long as it has zero effect on my spaceships.

"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon

"Good luck, shoot straight and don't back down." - Serendipity Lost
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#44 - 2013-10-02 11:58:04 UTC
Jered Hakaaros wrote:
Quote:
Not to be rude, but I seriously call BS on this. You're either making this up or you're the creepiest person ever who hangs out at a public computer playing EVE, grabbing the attention of anyone who will listen to show off your favorite !! video !! game !! And of course everyone makes excuses and gets the hell away as fast as possible.


Now that is just mean. I like it :) Of course you were sarcastic, but you would be surprised how many visitors pay attention to the game if you have the Jita undock streamed against a wall in your room with a projector. It just looks stunningly beautiful and despite the reason for their visit, a lot of people want to see what game is behind this. All in all its more than fifty over the years, but around that number were actually playing games themselves so the rest can be counted as "just curious".



I was being sarcastic, but now that you've confirmed that my guess was true:

I'm not sure what kind of reactions you're going off of here, or why you think this constitutes some kind of a sample to back up a post like this. You have no idea how you come off in such situations, or what the strangers were thinking, or even if the game really made a small enough positive impression that at least some of them will go to CCP's website to look further. You have no access to any followup surveys or formal training on how to present the game. Or anything!
Jered Hakaaros
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-10-02 12:16:59 UTC
Maaaaowm Ogeko wrote:
Jered Hakaaros wrote:
Quote:
Not to be rude, but I seriously call BS on this. You're either making this up or you're the creepiest person ever who hangs out at a public computer playing EVE, grabbing the attention of anyone who will listen to show off your favorite !! video !! game !! And of course everyone makes excuses and gets the hell away as fast as possible.


Now that is just mean. I like it :) Of course you were sarcastic, but you would be surprised how many visitors pay attention to the game if you have the Jita undock streamed against a wall in your room with a projector. It just looks stunningly beautiful and despite the reason for their visit, a lot of people want to see what game is behind this. All in all its more than fifty over the years, but around that number were actually playing games themselves so the rest can be counted as "just curious".



I was being sarcastic, but now that you've confirmed that my guess was true:

I'm not sure what kind of reactions you're going off of here, or why you think this constitutes some kind of a sample to back up a post like this. You have no idea how you come off in such situations, or what the strangers were thinking, or even if the game really made a small enough positive impression that at least some of them will go to CCP's website to look further. You have no access to any followup surveys or formal training on how to present the game. Or anything!


Huh? I never said I did. Why would players need such a thing to spread the word? I do not know what your point is here.

A lot of people come into contact with Eve per chance, be it news flashes of big battles they stumbled across, or overhearing a conversation, or discovering it through friends. Im not an all knowing god, so of course I can only observe what different people I know think about the game, why they like it or not.

I want this game to reach a larger playerbase. I wish for it to thrive, because Im proud of Eve. The lack of avatar interaction puts many off the immersion, so this has to be mentioned. That is all there is to it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#46 - 2013-10-02 12:25:47 UTC
Eliose Lucian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


The OP might think it's a good thing to trade dedicated players (many of whom buy multiple accounts to do even more things in space) for people who aren't interested in the main theme of EVE online (SPACEships), but I think the idea is dumb.



What do you mean by trade? Would you really leave the game if they added some more to WiS? What? I wouldn't, although I wouldn't really use it either. It would be like current WiS, take it or leave it. I highly doubt CCP would make it a requirement to WALK too your agents.



"Walking in stations" if done the way some of you are wanting would "increase the subscriber base". More people means more people like that (ie, people who wouldn't play a SPACEship game unless it let them walk around on virtual feet) demanding the game be dumbed down for the masses.

It's bad enough with the shrieking masses of high sec complaining about how they got PVP'd in a PVP game, but this "WiS only" players would make high sec only folk (you know, those people who are so weak minded that they can't imagine playing a spaceship game if it didn't have magical "poof out of thin air" police to come protect them from other video game players....) look sane in comparison.

No thanks. SPACEship games for SPACEship captains only, please. Let the walk about crown walk around Azeroth or whatever you call the land in that other game.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#47 - 2013-10-02 12:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
OP gives only two things in this thread. From my brother i heard some more after 1 month. He played mostly in high sec but he knew how null sec and low sec is constructed from me and tried to do something there. After trying to do missions there he didn't want to live there because he was podded for nothing and lose his ship for nothing.

One more thing - time - he told me that everything in this game takes so freaking long, skilling, missions, travel, mining, searching for good exploration site. He was frustrated by it and bored after one week, lose some ships trying to pvp solo and generally he didn't like it. Herrendous grind fest and blob pvp.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-10-02 12:35:56 UTC
I could never explain to any of my friends wtf I like so much in this game since all you can see is .. colored dots moving on a black background. Most of the people who never tried EVE, or only saw few clips on youtube, strongly believe that this is a browser game made by Zynga. True story.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#49 - 2013-10-02 12:40:03 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
I could never explain to any of my friends wtf I like so much in this game since all you can see is .. colored dots moving on a black background. Most of the people who never tried EVE, or only saw few clips on youtube, strongly believe that this is a browser game made by Zynga. True story.


It could be because of spreadsheat in space, farming asteroids, point and click spaceships. It is fairly simple and could be done in java in the browser window in 2D.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#50 - 2013-10-02 12:43:58 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
OP gives only two things in this thread. From my brother i heard some more after 1 month. He played mostly in high sec but he knew how null sec and low sec is constructed from me and tried to do something there. After trying to do missions there he didn't want to live there because he was podded for nothing and lose his ship for nothing.

One more thing - time - he told me that everything in this game takes so freaking long, skilling, missions, travel, mining, searching for good exploration site. He was frustrated by it and bored after one week, lose some ships trying to pvp solo and generally he didn't like it.


So in other words, he did everything you can do wrong in this game and then decided he didn't like it.

That just means he's like most people on earth including most video game players. ie, he's not mentally suited to EVE Online. Hell, their are "EVE" players who aren't that suited to it because they can't play the game without training wheels (high sec).

This isn't a slam at the folks who base themselves in high sec and explore outside high sec when they feel like it, I'm talking about the "i'll never fly outside of high sec because people are mean to me out there" folks. Apparently like your brother who did missions in high sec and people podded him "for no reason" which isn't true BTW. He got podded because he was playing a video game that had both space ships and guns that's reason enough to pod everyone up to and including space-God.

EVE is and has always been a good game because (with the exception of high sec) it excludes the weak. I for one like playing against really competitive, highly organized adult gamers. If I wanted to experience the masses and how they game, I'd play in high sec or play games via Xbox live...same thing when you get right down to it..
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#51 - 2013-10-02 12:45:01 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
I could never explain to any of my friends wtf I like so much in this game since all you can see is .. colored dots moving on a black background. Most of the people who never tried EVE, or only saw few clips on youtube, strongly believe that this is a browser game made by Zynga. True story.


It could be because of spreadsheat in space, farming asteroids, point and click spaceships. It is fairly simple and could be done in java in the browser window in 2D.


If you don't like it, why do you play it. Only a masochist would do that.

Masochism is a symptom of a sick mind.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2013-10-02 12:47:03 UTC
I would never let my friends find out I play this game, let alone try to get any of them to join me.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#53 - 2013-10-02 13:09:03 UTC
Jered Hakaaros wrote:
[

But you are still getting my point wrong. I love this game, I dont want to change it, just add to it. May they be players who need hand holding or players who are looking for challenge, when you first try a game you dont know what it has to offer. What counts then is first impression. That first impression is where Eve loses most of its potential new members.



No, no I'm not. I fully understand what you are saying. I was going to bash out a solid counter argument but it turns out Jenn has saved the day by, freakishly, writing my thoughts out for me...

Jenn aSide wrote:


"Walking in stations" if done the way some of you are wanting would "increase the subscriber base". More people means more people like that (ie, people who wouldn't play a SPACEship game unless it let them walk around on virtual feet) demanding the game be dumbed down for the masses.

It's bad enough with the shrieking masses of high sec complaining about how they got PVP'd in a PVP game, but this "WiS only" players would make high sec only folk (you know, those people who are so weak minded that they can't imagine playing a spaceship game if it didn't have magical "poof out of thin air" police to come protect them from other video game players....) look sane in comparison.

No thanks. SPACEship games for SPACEship captains only, please. Let the walk about crown walk around Azeroth or whatever you call the land in that other game.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#54 - 2013-10-02 13:10:28 UTC
Jered Hakaaros wrote:
(...)
Odyssey made some old players coming back to see the changes, Rubicon will do that too. But what about truly new players, our future legacy? They dont care about exploration changes or High-sec POCOs, because they wont know about any of those things unless they have actually played Eve for a while. So how can we get them to that point?

WiS might be cosmetic, and yeeeah we all know its about "spaceships", old argument there. But a game isnt simply about spaceships, its about immersion. The more players can identify with the game world, the more they feel at home there, and the more likely they are to stay. Yes, it is that simple. Of course, you can all downplay this argument, maybe because you do not want to get your hopes up, maybe because you want to stay elitist, but unless some major change in immersion happens, Eve will continue to alienate the great majority of potential fresh meat.


Sadly, EVE development since 2011 shows that he real victims of Incarnageddon were new players and immersion.

iterating old content means nothing to a new player who doesn't even knows that it exists. And the first thing a noob sees in his game are a useless CQ teasing him with avatar content that doesn't exists, and hisec content, which is not meant to keep anyone interested with EVE.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2013-10-02 13:10:28 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
I"m going to start kneecapping people who say direct piloting isn't possible because of the servers.


It isn't possible because of the server code.

1 second server ticks

Direct control

pick one.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-10-02 13:17:28 UTC
Eggs Ackley wrote:
Why do you have to walk in stations to interact with others?

because some players are actually safe in this HARSH UNIVERSE without WiS? (i'm talking about scammers and market traders)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jered Hakaaros
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2013-10-02 13:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jered Hakaaros
Mhax Arthie wrote:
I could never explain to any of my friends wtf I like so much in this game since all you can see is .. colored dots moving on a black background. Most of the people who never tried EVE, or only saw few clips on youtube, strongly believe that this is a browser game made by Zynga. True story.


At t hose times its similar to Supreme Commander: You often just have to play zoomed out with icons, and this is a really neat tool for insider, but hard to look at from the outside. Those videos are made for Eve players specifically and should (in theory) never be the first thing people see of this game. However, that problem gets less and less significant as there are a rising number of fantastic content videos, for example the Asakai battle which has gone a long way on Youtube, showing what Eve actually looks like between all the dots, and has drawn in a lot of new players as a result (if you check the comments and statistics).

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
iterating old content means nothing to a new player who doesn't even knows that it exists. And the first thing a noob sees in his game are a useless CQ teasing him with avatar content that doesn't exists, and hisec content, which is not meant to keep anyone interested with EVE.


Yes, this is quite sad. First the initial "wow" when seeing the CQ, and then the disappointment after finding out that is all there is to it. Experiencing a disappointment so early in the game is never a good thing, so actually making avatar interaction possible would prevent that. Or, of course, getting rid of it altogether, at the price of wasting a lot of potential immersive gameplay, and the work that already went into it.

Edit: Didnt see that one:

Quote:
No, no I'm not. I fully understand what you are saying. I was going to bash out a solid counter argument but it turns out Jenn has saved the day by, freakishly, writing my thoughts out for me...


Im not talking about HiSec. It can disappear for all I care, except possibly for a few core systems where the rookies start. I once imagined only some starter systems having "HiSec", and once you complete your first steps into the game and go into the outside world, gate access to those safe systems becomes restricted. That of course would contradict the sandbox element, so I didnt give it much more thought.

However, adding to the immersion via WiS would not dumb the game down in any way. Why would it? I do not understand that argument.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#58 - 2013-10-02 13:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
I could never explain to any of my friends wtf I like so much in this game since all you can see is .. colored dots moving on a black background. Most of the people who never tried EVE, or only saw few clips on youtube, strongly believe that this is a browser game made by Zynga. True story.


It could be because of spreadsheat in space, farming asteroids, point and click spaceships. It is fairly simple and could be done in java in the browser window in 2D.


If you don't like it, why do you play it. Only a masochist would do that.

Masochism is a symptom of a sick mind.

Where did I said I don't like it? I find it fun, sometimes. And about the weak, you rather mean people that want to have fun, not to pump their epeen, right?
Look at me I play EVE, therefore I am someone. Ugh

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2013-10-02 14:03:39 UTC
Jered Hakaaros wrote:
Greetings people! Im sure many of you, like me, tried to get friends into this game and often failed miserably. I made the experience that it is neither the steep learning curve nor the harsh survivalist-style gameplay this game is known for. No, usually it comes down to two questions, and then its over for most potential newcomers:

1) Can I walk in stations and interact with other players?
2) Can I pilot my ship directly?

After people discover that the answer to those is "no", its over, they either quit or dont try it in the first place, which brings a tear to my eye every time. Even I only tried it because a friend practically threatened me to try this game. Now we all know that piloting the ship directly is simply not technically possible if you want a single-shard universe with massive battles. On the contrary, after getting used to Eve I even complain about other twitch-based space game, because Eve lets me position my ship exactly where I want it. Different method, same or better result.

Which leaves Walk in Stations. Yeah, there will probably be a lot "Posting in another WiS thread" and thats fine. But thats also how it should be! Work on WiS exist, as far as we know, for a better five years, yet has never been implemented. The games growth would rise significantly, and, not to forget, this is the key feature to finally improve on that dreadful female-player rating, which would open Eve up to a whole new crowd of players.

In the end that is no real news, but all people in favor have to stay vocal about this and keep getting heard on a regular basis, otherwise we end up with even more rebalancing or rather underwhelming content. I love this game and want to get people into it, but Eve is just making this task damn hard for all the wrong reasons.



Some people can simply only fit square pegs into square holes and nothing else.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#60 - 2013-10-02 14:03:43 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Mhax Arthie wrote:
I could never explain to any of my friends wtf I like so much in this game since all you can see is .. colored dots moving on a black background. Most of the people who never tried EVE, or only saw few clips on youtube, strongly believe that this is a browser game made by Zynga. True story.


It could be because of spreadsheat in space, farming asteroids, point and click spaceships. It is fairly simple and could be done in java in the browser window in 2D.


If you don't like it, why do you play it. Only a masochist would do that.

Masochism is a symptom of a sick mind.

Where did I said I don't like it? I find it fun, sometimes. And about the weak, you rather mean people that want to have fun, not to pump their epeen, right?
Look at me I play EVE, therefore I am someone. Ugh


Nope, playing EVE or any other game doesn't make you "someone", but playing any video game in abject fear of loss or worse, fear of anonymous internet people being "mean" to you does make you a "nobody".

as for how fun you find EVE, if you like wasting on a "sometimes" fun game, it's your time and money, to each his own. Everything i do in EVE is at least entertaining (even the ratting).