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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Peace between the Empire and the Republic, a Moderate viewpoint
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Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#81 - 2013-10-02 04:22:42 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Empress, you people bicker over the details of fictional deals and solutions and you cannot even see past the propaganda or even properly recite recent history.

It reminds me of a story, two blind snipers arguing over who was the better shot.
The blind snipers were clearly test pilots. Shouldn't you be out somewhere losing sov as your once mighty alliance crumbles?

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "
Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#82 - 2013-10-02 04:55:16 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Empress, you people bicker over the details of fictional deals and solutions and you cannot even see past the propaganda or even properly recite recent history.

It reminds me of a story, two blind snipers arguing over who was the better shot.
Could you tell me the story of how it feels to lose six ships and be podded seven times in one day? That is what you did today correct?

I am a pilot of woefully limited combat experience and I would be fascinated to hear the details from someone as keen on proper accuracy as you are.

I apologize for saying "shouldn't you be out somewhere losing sov", that was harsh, truth is you have no more sov holdings to lose.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#83 - 2013-10-02 05:34:18 UTC
Quote:
Maleatu Shakor warned that emancipation could not be taken at face value, claiming it was simply another act of “the treachery we have come to expect from the Amarr.”


Demand the Empire release slaves.
Commit acts of treachery by breaking the interstellar treaties and launching a surprise attack.
Empire releases slaves.
Condemn it as an act of treachery.


You couldn't make this up. Is Maleatu Shakor secretly a columnist with the Gutter Press ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#84 - 2013-10-02 06:49:14 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Quote:
Maleatu Shakor warned that emancipation could not be taken at face value, claiming it was simply another act of “the treachery we have come to expect from the Amarr.”


Demand the Empire release slaves.
Commit acts of treachery by breaking the interstellar treaties and launching a surprise attack.
Empire releases slaves.
Condemn it as an act of treachery.


You couldn't make this up. Is Maleatu Shakor secretly a columnist with the Gutter Press ?


Seriously. This and things like Coellie is how you wind up not being taken seriously as a sovreign state. Well that and idiots who think that assassination of random people is statecraft. I honestly yearn for the old days, when I could beat sense into people.

When will the Matari learn that their 'people' are the most vulnerable in New Eden to reprisal - given that they are spread out into the Federation and the Empire as much (if not more) than they are in the Republic itself. Any atrocity that the Matari commit upon the Amarrians can be responded to a thousand-fold by the Amarrians without them even leaving their space. What if they decided to end slavery by executing every Matari slave? What if they simply crammed the hold of every industrial and freighter they could find and just released the former-slaves into Republic Orbitals? Start with the ones in the Pator system, say?

It would bring the Republic down, crash their infrastructure, completely disintegrate their social order, bring down their government and disrupt every work of government. People would starve. Education would cease overnight. Overburdened colonies would collapse into anarchy.

Pretty much only the Thukker would survive, and only then by simply flying away from the whole mess.

Not to mention the total dilution of Matari culture. Do you have any idea how few of the slaves know which tribes they originally came from? I imagine most of them are mixed tribe/race by now. I wonder how many of them would retain their Amarrian religion? Overnight the religion of the spirits would become a minority in it's own territory.

What you SHOULD be doing is negotiating the return of willing Matari descended slaves over a sensible timeframe. Have you considered Jamyl's release of slaves recently to, perhaps, be a warning shot? Letting the Republic know what would happen if all the Lost did come home?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#85 - 2013-10-02 06:59:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
Quote:
Maleatu Shakor warned that emancipation could not be taken at face value, claiming it was simply another act of “the treachery we have come to expect from the Amarr.”


Demand the Empire release slaves.
Commit acts of treachery by breaking the interstellar treaties and launching a surprise attack.
Empire releases slaves.
Condemn it as an act of treachery.


You couldn't make this up. Is Maleatu Shakor secretly a columnist with the Gutter Press ?


Seriously. This and things like Coellie is how you wind up not being taken seriously as a sovreign state. Well that and idiots who think that assassination of random people is statecraft. I honestly yearn for the old days, when I could beat sense into people.

When will the Matari learn that their 'people' are the most vulnerable in New Eden to reprisal - given that they are spread out into the Federation and the Empire as much (if not more) than they are in the Republic itself. Any atrocity that the Matari commit upon the Amarrians can be responded to a thousand-fold by the Amarrians without them even leaving their space. What if they decided to end slavery by executing every Matari slave? What if they simply crammed the hold of every industrial and freighter they could find and just released the former-slaves into Republic Orbitals? Start with the ones in the Pator system, say?

It would bring the Republic down, crash their infrastructure, completely disintegrate their social order, bring down their government and disrupt every work of government. People would starve. Education would cease overnight. Overburdened colonies would collapse into anarchy.

Pretty much only the Thukker would survive, and only then by simply flying away from the whole mess.

Not to mention the total dilution of Matari culture. Do you have any idea how few of the slaves know which tribes they originally came from? I imagine most of them are mixed tribe/race by now. I wonder how many of them would retain their Amarrian religion? Overnight the religion of the spirits would become a minority in it's own territory.

What you SHOULD be doing is negotiating the return of willing Matari descended slaves over a sensible timeframe. Have you considered Jamyl's release of slaves recently to, perhaps, be a warning shot? Letting the Republic know what would happen if all the Lost did come home?
I will grant you the benefit of doubt and state that you are merely wrong. The Republic is up to the challenge. It sounds much like hogwash to me, "They'll all starve" & "Your economy will collapse" are easy to toss out because it maintains the putrid status quo.

Millions of Matari suffer atrocities everyday in Amarr space now, you are content to say any effort to end it by force of arms will make it worst, I say Poppycock! The violence against Amarrians could increase ten thousand fold and they would not match the violence they continue to commit, we ask them for peace but will not sit idly by for another nine generations for them to declare us all criminals and as such still subject to slavery. If this must be solved by the knife mine is sharp and blood soaked already.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#86 - 2013-10-02 07:13:02 UTC
A worthy initiative, ms. Moore.
One would say, if people of New Eden took care of the Heth issue on a short notice, why would taking care of the Shakor issue be any more problematic?
Well, it's quite simple.
Caldari operate on a modus operandi of logic, laws and rationalism.


Ray Mitar wrote:
If this must be solved by the knife mine is sharp and blood soaked already.


Repubicans, as shown above operate on a modus operandi of violence, nationalism and racism.
I'm afraid they won't be willing to put their bloody sharp knives down no matter what, blinded by such pitiful ideas, or will at least pretend, waiting for another Mekhios or Colelie. You know what they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...


Ray Mitar wrote:
It sounds much like hogwash to me, "They'll all starve" & "Your economy will collapse" are easy to toss out because it maintains the putrid status quo.


Because Republican people are already starving and the economy is already collapsing even sans the sudden influx of idle hands to feed?
The only putrid status quo trying to be preserved in this situation or context is Shakor's I'm afraid.



  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#87 - 2013-10-02 07:21:14 UTC
The history of the enslavement of the Matari people is a history of resistance and rebellion, we have never accepted slave status and never will. The Amarrians have had to put down many planet wide rebellions against people they had significant weapon superiority against and still had to resort to orbital bombardment to quell. We will continue to fight by EVERY means available until a just peace is accepted by the slavers that frees all our people.

Now you Caldari & Gallente have been bystanders and supporters but you never put your blood and skin in the good fight, and that is not to say your financial and military support has been key to our success, but we alone have waged the war and spilled our blood for freedom. We will continue to do so until every Matari is free, not a threat just a simple lesson of truth proven by history and current events.

We do not seek your approval, our freedom is our responsibility, we merely seek to inform you of our intent to see this through to the end. We are grateful for the support many have shown us, and embarrassed that sometimes our leadership did not live up to your or our expectations, but our birth right of freedom is not dependent on the good behavior of our leadership. We will take our freedom back with our bare hands if required or die in the process. After centuries of revolt and rebellion how could anyone doubt this to be a statement of fact?
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#88 - 2013-10-02 07:36:22 UTC
You know the Matari once enslaved each other before they managed a tenuous peace amongst the tribes, right? Slavery was a thing pre-Amarr, though certainly not something that's existed amongst them for a long time.

As for Caldari and Gallente not fighting on behalf of the Matari, that is false. I've known some Amarr, even, to fight for the freedom of Matari. So no, the Matari haven't been alone on the field of combat.

If you don't seek the approval of other nations you may find it increasingly hard to maintain your position amongst them. As far as freedom being a birth right, that is debatable. Some people are born into broken families and some are fortunate enough to be born in privileged families. I would argue slavery is similar. Life is not fair.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#89 - 2013-10-02 07:37:08 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
A worthy initiative, ms. Moore.
One would say, if people of New Eden took care of the Heth issue on a short notice, why would taking care of the Shakor issue be any more problematic?
Well, it's quite simple.
Caldari operate on a modus operandi of logic, laws and rationalism.


Ray Mitar wrote:
If this must be solved by the knife mine is sharp and blood soaked already.


Repubicans, as shown above operate on a modus operandi of violence, nationalism and racism.
I'm afraid they won't be willing to put their bloody sharp knives down no matter what, blinded by such pitiful ideas, or will at least pretend, waiting for another Mekhios or Colelie. You know what they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...


Ray Mitar wrote:
It sounds much like hogwash to me, "They'll all starve" & "Your economy will collapse" are easy to toss out because it maintains the putrid status quo.


Because Republican people are already starving and the economy is already collapsing even sans the sudden influx of idle hands to feed?
The only putrid status quo trying to be preserved in this situation or context is Shakor's I'm afraid.



Certainly you do not deny the obvious fact that the Amarr are the most violent warlike people of New Eden, do you? History known to your children proves you dramatically wrong if you do.

You come into a man's home armed to the teeth, take everything he owns, kill off millions of his people, place him in slavery, force your foul religion down his throat and when he finally gets a knife and wields it to obtain his birth right of freedom you proclaim that action as proof he is a member of a violent people. The unmitigated savage gall of that position is why chances for diplomatic peace are thin. Make no mistake if you continue to keep your foot on my throat i'll continue to try and cut it off.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#90 - 2013-10-02 07:41:13 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
You know the Matari once enslaved each other before they managed a tenuous peace amongst the tribes, right? Slavery was a thing pre-Amarr, though certainly not something that's existed amongst them for a long time.

As for Caldari and Gallente not fighting on behalf of the Matari, that is false. I've known some Amarr, even, to fight for the freedom of Matari. So no, the Matari haven't been alone on the field of combat.

If you don't seek the approval of other nations you may find it increasingly hard to maintain your position amongst them. As far as freedom being a birth right, that is debatable. Some people are born into broken families and some are fortunate enough to be born in privileged families. I would argue slavery is similar. Life is not fair.

-Eran
If you love and defend slavery so much, one wonders why you don't fly to Amarr and submit yourself? Before the Day of Darkness the Matari people had enjoyed centuries of peace. History is never kind to turncoats or liars and you are both.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#91 - 2013-10-02 07:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Eran Mintor
Diplomatic peace had already existed a little over five years ago. Midular was working with the Empire to release slaves and back then the Empire was even giving aid to the Republic. The people who are making this peace so difficult now are individuals such as yourself and Shakor who must threaten everyone with bloody knives.

-Eran

edit : If I have lied, please show me where. Just because my views on slavery differs from your own doesn't make me a liar. I see slavery as acceptable in certain instances. I even have an indentured servant among my retinue, and she's an Amarrian. It's a long story, but I treat her well.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#92 - 2013-10-02 07:51:01 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Diplomatic peace had already existed a little over five years ago. Midular was working with the Empire to release slaves and back then the Empire was even giving aid to the Republic. The people who are making this peace so difficult now are individuals such as yourself and Shakor who must threaten everyone with bloody knives.

-Eran
The question remains ..... why not submit yourself and whatever progeny you might produce to the loving embrace of Amarrian slavery for the next nine generations? Surely you do not think the Matari blood on your hands has made you exempt? You are not man enough to face the verdict you pass on children, you disgusting cowardly turncoat.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#93 - 2013-10-02 07:55:11 UTC
I have no need for enslavement as my family was faithful in God long before I left the Republic.

Continue trying to insult me - it's entertaining when people try their hardest when they really have no idea who someone is or what past they come from.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#94 - 2013-10-02 08:16:03 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
I have no need for enslavement as my family was faithful in God long before I left the Republic.

Continue trying to insult me - it's entertaining when people try their hardest when they really have no idea who someone is or what past they come from.

-Eran
Insulting you would be impossible, you have no honor, no integrity. You are not man enough to face the verdict you willfully and enthusiastically see imposed on children, that makes you a coward. You are a self loathing turncoat and a liar. What could be said to such a being that would constitute an insult? The best most vitriolic words for someone like you is "live long" because centuries of you being in your own presence is the best punishment imaginable.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2013-10-02 08:19:47 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
The question remains ..... why not submit yourself and whatever progeny you might produce to the loving embrace of Amarrian slavery for the next nine generations? Surely you do not think the Matari blood on your hands has made you exempt? You are not man enough to face the verdict you pass on children, you disgusting cowardly turncoat.


The Matari are a fine group of people to talk about the verdict passed upon children. The stench of hypocrisy is positively nauseating. I may be no saint but I'm at least willing to admit I'm a sinner. You all talk about assassination and justified murder and then wonder why we're loath to commit to any kind of peace process with you?

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#96 - 2013-10-02 08:25:45 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
The question remains ..... why not submit yourself and whatever progeny you might produce to the loving embrace of Amarrian slavery for the next nine generations? Surely you do not think the Matari blood on your hands has made you exempt? You are not man enough to face the verdict you pass on children, you disgusting cowardly turncoat.


The Matari are a fine group of people to talk about the verdict passed upon children. The stench of hypocrisy is positively nauseating. I may be no saint but I'm at least willing to admit I'm a sinner. You all talk about assassination and justified murder and then wonder why we're loath to commit to any kind of peace process with you?
Your admission of being a sinner exalts you, and my confession of sin makes me something to loath? The stench of hypocrisy is coming from you. Try again.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#97 - 2013-10-02 08:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Mitar
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2013-10-02 08:42:39 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
I will grant you the benefit of doubt and state that you are merely wrong. The Republic is up to the challenge. It sounds much like hogwash to me, "They'll all starve" & "Your economy will collapse" are easy to toss out because it maintains the putrid status quo.

Millions of Matari suffer atrocities everyday in Amarr space now, you are content to say any effort to end it by force of arms will make it worst, I say Poppycock! The violence against Amarrians could increase ten thousand fold and they would not match the violence they continue to commit, we ask them for peace but will not sit idly by for another nine generations for them to declare us all criminals and as such still subject to slavery. If this must be solved by the knife mine is sharp and blood soaked already.


If only everyone could be as brave as the undying billionaire who is utterly safe from reprisal.

First of all, I have no vested interest in the status quo. So long as the war stays confined to the CEMWPA warzone we're about as likely to see space-dragons and unicorns as we are to see help coming from the Amarrian militia. As for the bigger picture, it doesn't really bother me whether the Matari automatically bring the Amarrians in on our side in case of Federation agression or beat the Amarrians and render the whole point moot by not needing to be allied against people who have no interest in threatening their people or territory.

No, an effort to end it by force of arms will be doomed to failure. Although the Amarrian navy is obsolete it is bloody enormous. If it came right down to it, they could curb-stomp the Republic Navy and perform a curettement on Pator. Eventually, I'm sure, it would prove counter-productive, but in at least the short term before the guerrilla war began to bite, you can count on unending misery and devastation.

As for the second part of your rebuttal, it would be simplicity itself to multiply the suffering almost infinitely. Simply by addressing the Matari within their own space they have access to a captive population that is bigger than your own. If they directed their attention towards vulnerable groups of Matari within the Federation, that number blossoms. Poison gas attacks. Simple violence. Deprivation. Separation of families.

Is your status as a freedom fighter SO important to you that you'd risk the very people you're supposed to be serving, just to keep your war?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#99 - 2013-10-02 09:00:53 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
I will grant you the benefit of doubt and state that you are merely wrong. The Republic is up to the challenge. It sounds much like hogwash to me, "They'll all starve" & "Your economy will collapse" are easy to toss out because it maintains the putrid status quo.

Millions of Matari suffer atrocities everyday in Amarr space now, you are content to say any effort to end it by force of arms will make it worst, I say Poppycock! The violence against Amarrians could increase ten thousand fold and they would not match the violence they continue to commit, we ask them for peace but will not sit idly by for another nine generations for them to declare us all criminals and as such still subject to slavery. If this must be solved by the knife mine is sharp and blood soaked already.


If only everyone could be as brave as the undying billionaire who is utterly safe from reprisal.

First of all, I have no vested interest in the status quo. So long as the war stays confined to the CEMWPA warzone we're about as likely to see space-dragons and unicorns as we are to see help coming from the Amarrian militia. As for the bigger picture, it doesn't really bother me whether the Matari automatically bring the Amarrians in on our side in case of Federation agression or beat the Amarrians and render the whole point moot by not needing to be allied against people who have no interest in threatening their people or territory.

No, an effort to end it by force of arms will be doomed to failure. Although the Amarrian navy is obsolete it is bloody enormous. If it came right down to it, they could curb-stomp the Republic Navy and perform a curettement on Pator. Eventually, I'm sure, it would prove counter-productive, but in at least the short term before the guerrilla war began to bite, you can count on unending misery and devastation.

As for the second part of your rebuttal, it would be simplicity itself to multiply the suffering almost infinitely. Simply by addressing the Matari within their own space they have access to a captive population that is bigger than your own. If they directed their attention towards vulnerable groups of Matari within the Federation, that number blossoms. Poison gas attacks. Simple violence. Deprivation. Separation of families.

Is your status as a freedom fighter SO important to you that you'd risk the very people you're supposed to be serving, just to keep your war?
The simple arrogance of your statements is staggering, do you suppose the Amarrians are the only people who have access to gas and chemical weapons? Our Diaspora guarantees that if the slavers went down that road we would never stop short of killing them all and in kind they would have to invade Caldari and Gallente space to kill all of us, and how would that sit with you as gas billowed across your cities? I do not think anyone wants gas and chemical warfare to start but we are ready to respond if that tactic is employed against Matari people anywhere. Can you imagine the horror even one cloaked ship piloted by a capsuleer could inflict if he or she decided to start cleansing populations from planets? What defense could withstand relentless attacks that could fail a thousand times before needing just one success, per planet?

In this forum only undying billionaires who are utterly safe from reprisals speak so I don't see the value of that statement, it has as much traction as saying "yeah well thats easy to say when you never leave space and walk on the surface of planets" again it applies to everyone who posts here. We capsuleers are a new breed from the old stock of New Eden decidedly different but not wholly disconnected from our baseline origins.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#100 - 2013-10-02 09:08:39 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
I would like to be done with all of you Amarrians, if a binding enforceable peace was signed tomorrow I'd like nothing better then to never see a one of you again.

Free all my people and I become a non-threat factor for the safety of Amarrian citizens. The stench of you will take decades to wash off, having to commit myself to a life of killing was not a choice, absent your horrific slavery empire, I would have selected for myself. Nonetheless I will use everyday of this long capsuleer life to exact whatever justice I can against any of you until an enforceable peace is signed, as little as that may be in the big scheme of things, it will be relentless.


There was peace.

The Republic broke it.