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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Peace between the Empire and the Republic, a Moderate viewpoint
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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-10-02 01:45:51 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:


It amazes me that CONCORD allowed Shakor to destroy their headquarters with no consequence nor act of retribution. With that extreme example in mind, I don't think CONCORD really cares about the Amarr and their Reclaiming so long as it adheres to the laws that have been set, such as the CEMWPA and Heideran's restriction to only enslaving people in Amarr territory. CONCORD isn't here to be judge and jury of a nation's own actions within it's borders, CONCORD's goal is to asses threats to safety and interstellar peace between the major empires and deal with it.

As for the Starkmanir, the creation of Sorrow's Gash on Starkman Prime was a result of a vicious rebellion that took the life of an Amarr Heir. I'm not sure how else you expected the Ardishapur family to react but I'm interested in hearing your ideas. Regardless, I'm not really sure what relevance it has to this discussion. Genocides occur on large and small scales everywhere, whether they be officially sanctioned or not. They can hinder peace but do not make it an impossibility.

Furthermore, Jamyl Sarum made mention of a New Reclaiming but the details as to what that entails were never mentioned. Baracca here likes to think it means a non-violent Reclaiming. I'm not sure how much truth that has but I'm not going to be a fool and speak for Jamyl Sarum about something I have no knowledge about.
-Eran


That's because CONCORD is a bureaucracy and bureaucracies can't dish out retribution, just bumble about and write angry letters and pat themselves on the shoulder. CONCORD demanded that Shakor turn over the Elders and refuse admitting the Thukker and Starkmanir into the Republic, which Shakor obviously did not do.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable to exterminate almost an entire race because of rebellion? Hmmm I guess the Ultra-Nationalist had the right idea to bomb Caldari Prime! And it's completely relevant to the discussion! Amarrians in this thread are pointing out nothing but the faults of their enemies while only a handful of them are also looking at their own faults.

I hope her New Reclaiming is peaceful, but given historical precedents you can't blame me for having my doubts.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#62 - 2013-10-02 02:18:35 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
To be allowed to remain an Empire after you have released our worlds and freed our people is a greater compensation then you could ever hope for.


This is a great example of what I was just talking about. Is this not a thinly-veiled threat? 'Be grateful if we don't destroy you after you give us what we want.'

The humble mouse comes to mind...give him a cookie and he'll ask for milk.

Then the mention of a laughable tax...why, so you can use that ISK for more capital ships instead of using it for your people, much like you did with the Federation's donations? You must take everyone for an idiot with the short-term memory of a fish.

This is becoming something of a joke now, rather than honest discussion.

-Eran
You completely misunderstood my comment, it was not a thinly veiled threat, it was an honest statement of reason. To inflict horrible crimes for centuries and then still be accepted at the table of civilization when you do no more then just stop is a fantastic deal, far better then they deserve, but in the interest of moving forward the Minmatar must move away from vengeance and embrace a future that does not require active warfare.

Because administration of support funds had been diverted to more offensive efforts I proposed a neutral respected third party to manage the taxes levied so such a thing could never happen again. If you think putting safeguards in place to disable the mistakes of the past repeating themselves is a fantasy, then I must conclude you do not want peace.


So then you misspoke.

Anyways, don't expect any ISK given to the Republic. I'm quite certain the Amarr would never agree to that. There is a possibility that donations could be given to Sister of EVE or fees fronted for transportation, but direct aid to the Republic is not a possibility. It's not because they don't want peace but there are many reasons why a request like that would be considered ridiculous by the majority of the Empire.

Let's think about this - if the slaves were freed today, with the current state of the Republic, it would be doing more of a damage to your people than you seem to realize. Get your economy and society working again so you don't have to submit billions to poverty and malnutrition.

-Eran
I did not misspeak you simply did not understand. For a capsuleer with a long record of serving the slavers you seem to know quite a bit about the capability of the Minmatar Republic, honestly don't you consider yourself biased and not quite capable of seeing the whole picture? You have no problem with billions being subjected to slavery, but you get all weepy that they might suffer malnutrition, you strain any possible credibility. If the Minmatar Republic had an enforcable peace with the Amarr we could handle any influx of freed citizens, it would become our reason for existence, because living well is indeed the best revenge.

Could it be you'd have no place to call home if peace were declared? A turncoat is only valuable during conflict and is the natural enemy of peace, you'd have to spend the rest of your long capsuleer lifetime as the common criminal you are, murdering baselines without the phony facade of loyalty to your masters. For you peace is an awful future, and it is what you will have to contend with one day and then for centuries thereafter.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#63 - 2013-10-02 02:22:31 UTC
CONCORD is a bit more than a bureaucracy. They have quite a bit of power as well. Anyways...

I'm not saying genocide is the morally right response to a rebellion, but it was their response. I asked your ideas on how they should've responded and I am curious, it wasn't meant to be rhetorical. Ardishapur felt wronged and took his vengeance. The Starkmanir were all but exterminated as a people and nothing can be done to bring them back. If you think an apology would make any difference then you have too much faith in words.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#64 - 2013-10-02 02:26:57 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Could someone perhaps enlighten me on exactly how long, as in how many years are counted in an Amarrian generation?

For most people it means the time between the birth of the parents and the birth of their children. So if slavery has existed for several hundred years whom would not be well beyond their ninth generation?

The Day of Darkness happened in 22480 AD, anyway you do the math if the Empire truly followed their Empress almost all but the most recently enslaved should have been set free.


Well, slavery continued until only fairly recently, and prisoners are continually moved into penal education. It isn't a set term of years, but generations from the first direct lineal ancestor's enslavement. So if a slave's grandfather was enslaved, he would be the second generation (his father would be a first generation slave, his grandfather the original slave). It's difficult to speculate how long ago the longest current slave would still be enslaved, but let's estimate, for example, that a slave was sired regularly every thirty years. Nine generations forward from the original would be two-hundred and seventy years, give or take.

One of the problems the emancipation has run into is that, although they were required to keep very strict logs of lineage and background, many Holders did not see fit to upkeep their records. As such, a portion of the Privy Council and Theology Council's resources are now being spent on filling in the gaps and making sure there are no longer-lined slaves kicking around in the system. I would almost say nine generations is far and away more than enough time to have re-educated someone, but I would almost rather say that if you can't raise a child in the slave system to become a citizen, you have an education problem.

Nine generations in? The only people who would have known anything other than the Amarr Empire would have been a distant relative. Far more than enough time.

Primarily, though, the reason for the generational, instead of annual, doctrine on the emancipation was to strike at the institutes most likely to be offending the Scriptural decrees. Things like hard mining colonies that literally formed breeding programs with their slaves in their teens. Some of their hideous failings defies imagination. Quite a few Holders found themselves facing inquiries when it was discovered that some tenth generation slaves in their system were from lineages barely over a century old. Believe it or not, there's a rule about that very clearly defined in the Scriptures themselves.

While it proved some industries are more prone to abuses, the emancipation proved nothing more fervently than the Holder was the best barometer of a slave's successful transition into civilian life. Some families became very distinguished in the emancipation, as it was found that their lineages were almost untainted (slaves did not remain that way so far into their lineages). Better, we found that recidivism was low in these families. Their methods are being studied so that we can begin cleaning out these custodial stewardship problems.

If anything, it has truly been a wonder to see the heights and depths of Amarrian society through the emancipation and subsequent investigation into it. It has proven that the system works wonders, better than any other rehabilitative or doctrinal education in the cluster. However, it has just as certainly shown its vulnerability to abuse. The question now is how to reform the former so that the latter is eliminated.

Better, how to make sure that new citizens entering our society are fully prepared enough to avoid slavery altogether. That relies on a lot more foreign education before immigration. It makes the transition much easier as well.

Truly, the Empress's wisdom shines brightly in this measure. It is truly peeling back the wallpaper to see what is beneath.
Perhaps instead of trying to convert people to your faith you might best serve all of New Eden by teaching basic math to those who say they follow your Empress. Even using your 30 year generation standard, and how many women have their first child at age thirty, much more then 270 years have passed for the vast majority of those held in generational slavery both in violation of human decency and the emancipation decree of your Empress.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#65 - 2013-10-02 02:34:56 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
If anything, it has truly been a wonder to see the heights and depths of Amarrian society through the emancipation and subsequent investigation into it. It has proven that the system works wonders, better than any other rehabilitative or doctrinal education in the cluster. However, it has just as certainly shown its vulnerability to abuse. The question now is how to reform the former so that the latter is eliminated.


The System as it currently stands is riddled with Abuse. What safeguards there are in place are routinely ignored by those in power, otherwise you would not be seeing the level of abuse you have. To use an Engineering analogy, you're trying to patch up a failing reactor with a fresh coat of paint.

Tell me, Constantin, and I'd like you to answer from the heart, not just from what you have been taught. If the System could not be reformed to truly safeguard the people within it from Abuse, not just on paper, but in actual fact regardless of the social rank of the perpetrator, would you continue to support it? Could your Conscience live with the Occasional Success story, knowing that the price paid for that Success was the continued abuse of so many others Failed by the system?


It depends largely on the ratio of success to abuse. As it stands, that's simply not the case. Even during the worst times, it wasn't that horrible. The Amarr Empire is still vast compared to the others even after the rebellion. So slavery wasn't a universally horrid application. Compared with other penal systems and methods to deal with impoverished and homeless people, I don't think it's even necessarily inhumane.

The idea that you throw the entire system out because it is prone to abuse would very quickly eliminate any power structure, because all are prone to abuse. One would consider Shakor's reign in Minmatar space to be fairly abusive of his power, yet we are not questioning the removal of your entire system of government; we're only for the most part calling for the removal of Shakor. Any time you put one people in the care of another people, abuse will simply happen at some level, whatever safeguards you put in place. That doesn't make a power structure any less necessary, as complete anarchy grinds societal progress to a halt.

So, in the depths of my heart, you have to blame individuals for their own crimes. Slavery just happens to be part of our governmental system which has seen abuse over the years. It is not the only part, nor is our government the only one that has ever had issues with our own system. The fact of the matter is that we would not notice it had it been universal among the cluster. No one ever talks about completely throwing out refuse collection even though it is a corrupted industry in every single cluster it has ever existed in. It's a good and necessary part of government that is simply prone to abuse because it is where things go to never be seen again.

So you can't pitch out a system that has worked well in the past simply because we, as a culture, have begun trying to repair it and do not shy away from pointing out, ourselves, that it has had issues with enforcement. How much of any government would remain if the presence of corruption was enough of a sign to eradicate it? You simply have to set rules and hold criminals to account.

For slavery to be completely removed, you would have to prove it to be ineffective. No objective study has ever done that. Most of the complaints about it center not on how it can not accomplish its goals, but with how thoroughly it does accomplish them. Given how few people in the Amarr Empire are 100% pure racial decedents from the original island, how many of even those people performed criminal acts and served as slaves at some point, and then how many of us are descended from integrated freedmen, it stands to reason that it works very well as a system of rehabilitation.

If the Matari experience proved anything, it's that entire interclusteral empires are probably too much to take in at one time. You can't effectively use any system without resources and infrastructure available and in place. Our number of enslaved people far outweighed our supplies of decent Holders and facilities to house them in.

In the end, we have to look back through our mistakes as a people and correct them. You also see what has worked well and codify it. When push comes to shove, I still think the system of slavery is a more effective solution for the problems it was created to confront than I've seen in other clusters. I can't say I would want to switch to an inferior system simply because it hasn't been completely perfect over that many thousands of years.

Systems, like people, are not perfect. Simply because they are not perfect does not mean they are a waste. Everything can be rehabilitated into usefulness. So with the system of slavery, so it is with slaves, so it is with even we imperfect servants of God. Imperfection is never an excuse to give up on improvement.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2013-10-02 02:42:53 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
]Perhaps instead of trying to convert people to your faith you might best serve all of New Eden by teaching basic math to those who say they follow your Empress. Even using your 30 year generation standard, and how many women have their first child at age thirty, much more then 270 years have passed for the vast majority of those held in generational slavery both in violation of human decency and the emancipation decree of your Empress.


I think you've misunderstood the system of slavery. Slavers have had an ongoing process of adding people to the mix. In reality, the very first Reclaiming's slaves have long since largely moved into the realms of citizenry. Those who are in slavery are those who have returned there due to some trial or another. They are not all direct descendants of long-lined generational slave families. Most of those have now earned their citizenship.

Remember that slavery isn't just a bunch of people running around systems snapping up the children, as you were probably taught in school. It's our penal system. We only have a few maximum security prisons for a very few people we do not feel necessary to execute but cannot trust to release into our slave system. It is our method of rehabilitating criminals as well as picking up people who are homeless and destitute so that they can work, be given food and shelter, and eventually learn some manner of employable skill. The majority of modern slaves are from that stock.

What Matari slaves still remain are ostensibly from groups either re-enslaved due to criminal activity or who had been captured within nine generations. Remember that a lot of the crews that survive factional warfare are treated as prisoners of war. Since we have no prison camps, they enter slavery.

It's as simple as that. While we don't have nearly so many since the emancipation, it isn't as if we are in danger of running out anytime soon. We have plenty of pirates in the Empire even if peace were made tomorrow.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#67 - 2013-10-02 02:44:24 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
I did not misspeak you simply did not understand. For a capsuleer with a long record of serving the slavers you seem to know quite a bit about the capability of the Minmatar Republic, honestly don't you consider yourself biased and not quite capable of seeing the whole picture? You have no problem with billions being subjected to slavery, but you get all weepy that they might suffer malnutrition, you strain any possible credibility. If the Minmatar Republic had an enforcable peace with the Amarr we could handle any influx of freed citizens, it would become our reason for existence, because living well is indeed the best revenge.

Could it be you'd have no place to call home if peace were declared? A turncoat is only valuable during conflict and is the natural enemy of peace, you'd have to spend the rest of your long capsuleer lifetime as the common criminal you are, murdering baselines without the phony facade of loyalty to your masters. For you peace is an awful future, and it is what you will have to contend with one day and then for centuries thereafter.


You did misspeak when you said "To be allowed to remain an Empire after you have released our worlds and freed our people is a greater compensation then you could ever hope for." You later stated you didn't mean it as a threat, but if someone were to read that and take it for what you said, it would be taken as one. To be allowed to remain an Empire is a greater compensation than you could ever hope for...I don't see how that wouldn't come across as saying you would seek to dismantle the Empire. That is a minor argument anyways. If you wish to believe you didn't misspeak I don't really care.

As far as my capsuleer record, I was living in the Republic for 19 years before I moved to the Empire. I'm fortunate in that I've been privileged to see the perspectives from both sides. Perhaps it's why I've become cynical. And yes, I would rather our people be enslaved and released slowly so as their quality of life isn't thrown in the gutter for the sake of some "freedom fighters" ideals who feels that an enslaved man is "our" people and should be taken back no matter the cost. The similarities between slavers and the demands of these so-called freedom fighters is absurd. I feel I can say this because I once considered myself among these freedom fighters.

The Republic had peace with the Empire. They were unable to manage a huge influx of migrants, let alone struggling to take care of their own. Why do you think so many left the Republic for the Federation? You do remember the exodus, don't you? Perhaps it could've been avoided if the money wasn't squandered on warships. Perhaps the nation would be better off and Midular would've been more successful in her peaceful goals of emancipation. This current "fast-track" road to emancipation could bring about the destruction of the Republic at the worst. Midular would've never been so foolish to risk that.

And as far as having a home, I have a different notion of this term since my time among the Caravans, and the Empire certainly isn't it.

-Eran
Matar Ronin
#68 - 2013-10-02 02:57:48 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:

It depends largely on the ratio of success to abuse. As it stands, that's simply not the case. Even during the worst times, it wasn't that horrible. The Amarr Empire is still vast compared to the others even after the rebellion. So slavery wasn't a universally horrid application. Compared with other penal systems and methods to deal with impoverished and homeless people, I don't think it's even necessarily inhumane.

The idea that you throw the entire system out because it is prone to abuse would very quickly eliminate any power structure, because all are prone to abuse. One would consider Shakor's reign in Minmatar space to be fairly abusive of his power, yet we are not questioning the removal of your entire system of government; we're only for the most part calling for the removal of Shakor. Any time you put one people in the care of another people, abuse will simply happen at some level, whatever safeguards you put in place. That doesn't make a power structure any less necessary, as complete anarchy grinds societal progress to a halt.

So, in the depths of my heart, you have to blame individuals for their own crimes. Slavery just happens to be part of our governmental system which has seen abuse over the years. It is not the only part, nor is our government the only one that has ever had issues with our own system. The fact of the matter is that we would not notice it had it been universal among the cluster. No one ever talks about completely throwing out refuse collection even though it is a corrupted industry in every single cluster it has ever existed in. It's a good and necessary part of government that is simply prone to abuse because it is where things go to never be seen again.

So you can't pitch out a system that has worked well in the past simply because we, as a culture, have begun trying to repair it and do not shy away from pointing out, ourselves, that it has had issues with enforcement. How much of any government would remain if the presence of corruption was enough of a sign to eradicate it? You simply have to set rules and hold criminals to account.

For slavery to be completely removed, you would have to prove it to be ineffective. No objective study has ever done that. Most of the complaints about it center not on how it can not accomplish its goals, but with how thoroughly it does accomplish them. Given how few people in the Amarr Empire are 100% pure racial decedents from the original island, how many of even those people performed criminal acts and served as slaves at some point, and then how many of us are descended from integrated freedmen, it stands to reason that it works very well as a system of rehabilitation.

If the Matari experience proved anything, it's that entire interclusteral empires are probably too much to take in at one time. You can't effectively use any system without resources and infrastructure available and in place. Our number of enslaved people far outweighed our supplies of decent Holders and facilities to house them in.

In the end, we have to look back through our mistakes as a people and correct them. You also see what has worked well and codify it. When push comes to shove, I still think the system of slavery is a more effective solution for the problems it was created to confront than I've seen in other clusters. I can't say I would want to switch to an inferior system simply because it hasn't been completely perfect over that many thousands of years.

Systems, like people, are not perfect. Simply because they are not perfect does not mean they are a waste. Everything can be rehabilitated into usefulness. So with the system of slavery, so it is with slaves, so it is with even we imperfect servants of God. Imperfection is never an excuse to give up on improvement.
Comparing slavery to penal institutions is a false premise, the Matari people committed no crime against the Amarrians prior to the Day of Darkness. Not even the most obnoxious Amarrian would dare to compare "Shakor's" record of abusiveness to the long recorded history of the Amarr Empire, so that statement falls flat as well. So you wish to keep slavery to enforce the crime of not being born an Amarrian, well good luck peddling that around New Eden even to your fellow Amarrians.

Like you I take a similar look at assassination of Amarrians any place in New Eden as a more effective solution the Amarrian infestation then diplomacy, simply because it has not been 100% effective does not mean we should abandon it. We need to take a close look at the methods that were most effective in the elimination of the vermin and improve and expand upon them. In the end we'll also look back at any mistakes an improve upon them. So even with the imperfect system of assassination in my heart of hearts I know it to be better then diplomacy, being also an imperfect instrument of the One True God of the Matari people I will continue to perfect my skills as an eradicator of Amarrian vermin.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#69 - 2013-10-02 03:00:17 UTC
Well if anyone doubted my claim that there are genocidal Minmatar who want nothing less than the extermination of the Amarr, look no further.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#70 - 2013-10-02 03:11:26 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Well if anyone doubted my claim that there are genocidal Minmatar who want nothing less than the extermination of the Amarr, look no further.

-Eran
Eran you are like a trained slavers hound, hungering for Matari flesh, a walking talking obscenity.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#71 - 2013-10-02 03:19:29 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Well if anyone doubted my claim that there are genocidal Minmatar who want nothing less than the extermination of the Amarr, look no further.

-Eran
Eran you are like a trained slavers hound, hungering for Matari flesh, a walking talking obscenity.


I guess you didn't understand I was talking about that Matar Ronin feller who posted above me.

-Eran
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#72 - 2013-10-02 03:20:44 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
]Perhaps instead of trying to convert people to your faith you might best serve all of New Eden by teaching basic math to those who say they follow your Empress. Even using your 30 year generation standard, and how many women have their first child at age thirty, much more then 270 years have passed for the vast majority of those held in generational slavery both in violation of human decency and the emancipation decree of your Empress.


I think you've misunderstood the system of slavery. Slavers have had an ongoing process of adding people to the mix. In reality, the very first Reclaiming's slaves have long since largely moved into the realms of citizenry. Those who are in slavery are those who have returned there due to some trial or another. They are not all direct descendants of long-lined generational slave families. Most of those have now earned their citizenship.

Remember that slavery isn't just a bunch of people running around systems snapping up the children, as you were probably taught in school. It's our penal system. We only have a few maximum security prisons for a very few people we do not feel necessary to execute but cannot trust to release into our slave system. It is our method of rehabilitating criminals as well as picking up people who are homeless and destitute so that they can work, be given food and shelter, and eventually learn some manner of employable skill. The majority of modern slaves are from that stock.

What Matari slaves still remain are ostensibly from groups either re-enslaved due to criminal activity or who had been captured within nine generations. Remember that a lot of the crews that survive factional warfare are treated as prisoners of war. Since we have no prison camps, they enter slavery.

It's as simple as that. While we don't have nearly so many since the emancipation, it isn't as if we are in danger of running out anytime soon. We have plenty of pirates in the Empire even if peace were made tomorrow.
Poppycock!
Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#73 - 2013-10-02 03:25:58 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ray Mitar wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Well if anyone doubted my claim that there are genocidal Minmatar who want nothing less than the extermination of the Amarr, look no further.

-Eran
Eran you are like a trained slavers hound, hungering for Matari flesh, a walking talking obscenity.


I guess you didn't understand I was talking about that Matar Ronin feller who posted above me.

-Eran
Wrong again, at least you are consistently confused by your false conclusions and assumptions, it really accurately defines you well, wrong and confused.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#74 - 2013-10-02 03:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eran Mintor
Would you care to elaborate on what you don't agree with?

-Eran

edit: That question was in reference to your response to Baracca.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#75 - 2013-10-02 03:29:33 UTC
I'm not confused, quite the contrary. However if you think I have a "hungering for Matari flesh" you are making some false conclusions and assumptions yourself.

Take care of yourself.

-Eran
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-10-02 03:32:02 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
CONCORD is a bit more than a bureaucracy. They have quite a bit of power as well. Anyways...

I'm not saying genocide is the morally right response to a rebellion, but it was their response. I asked your ideas on how they should've responded and I am curious, it wasn't meant to be rhetorical. Ardishapur felt wronged and took his vengeance. The Starkmanir were all but exterminated as a people and nothing can be done to bring them back. If you think an apology would make any difference then you have too much faith in words.

-Eran


CONCORD has power in regards to dealing with capsuleers, yet because each of the big four are equally represented in CONCORD it's nothing but gridlock. Federal Senate assemblies are more productive than that of CONCORD. Think of the average meeting of CONCORD delegates being a more formal version of the IGS.

As for dealing with the Rebellion, handle it like a proper military would. Go in, fight and if necessary, kill the combatants, and leave civilians out of it. Better yet, give the civilians a reason to side with you rather than the Rebels. If the rebels aren't entirely radical and are willing to negotiate, then negotiate. If the rebels are radical, then punish the rebels and the rebels alone.

I've seen many successful attempts at controlling insurrections and not so successful ones. The one thing that must always be done is convince the civilians that you are on their side and they have more to gain from helping you than helping the rebels. For example, Ardishapur could of offered emancipation for those who directly assisted Amarrian troops in putting down the rebellion. Or maybe he could of improved the conditions of neutral and loyal slaves.

And a sincere apology can carry more weight than you think. It won't bring back the dead, but it can ensure people that there won't be more.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#77 - 2013-10-02 03:51:13 UTC
CONCORD has power among the empires, not just capsuleers. They have laws over capsuleers and they have laws over the empires as well. They also possess a strong paramilitary department in the DED. They can do more than what they've done. Comparing it to the IGS is a bit more cynical than I'd care to be about it though.

Your way of handling the rebellion would seem reasonable. I don't know why Ardishapur did what he did, yet this is one man. I remember a recent discussion where people were getting upset that people were blaming whole nations for the actions of one man. If any apology were to happen, it'd have to be from him to have any real meaning.

-Eran
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-10-02 04:08:22 UTC
Empress, you people bicker over the details of fictional deals and solutions and you cannot even see past the propaganda or even properly recite recent history.

It reminds me of a story, two blind snipers arguing over who was the better shot.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#79 - 2013-10-02 04:12:32 UTC
Since you seem to have such a better grasp of things, would you care to prove it? Or do you prefer to just jut out your chin and walk with your nose as your eyes?

-Eran
Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#80 - 2013-10-02 04:12:52 UTC
The hunting animal proves that even a broken clock whose hands never move is still right twice a day, Concord has power, and that power must be bent to serve the will of the Amarr Empire by a long slow process of infiltration of human beings that freely choose the truth of the Amarr Scriptures over the delusions of the Godless Caldari, Gallente, and primitive Matari.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "