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rubicon warp acceleration changes
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Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-10-01 14:14:14 UTC
as far as i am aware, the time it takes for a ship to reach max warp speed currently is not dependent on the ship type, which is to change in rubicon. i have two questions regarding this change:
- what is the current time (yes, i am too lazy to check myself)?
- is there any more specific data on how exactly the change will be implemented? will it be x * align time, x^y * align time or derived from the ship class or something else?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-10-01 14:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Daniel Plain wrote:
as far as i am aware, the time it takes for a ship to reach max warp speed currently is not dependent on the ship type, which is to change in rubicon. i have two questions regarding this change:
- what is the current time (yes, i am too lazy to check myself)?
- is there any more specific data on how exactly the change will be implemented? will it be x * align time, x^y * align time or derived from the ship class or something else?



We don't know yet.

One would think that since all ships have mass and thrust basic Newtonian physics would apply (think basic kinematics), but this is CCP who knows what they will do.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-10-01 14:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
It has nothing to do with align times.

What changes is acceleration inside warp is affected by max warp speed. Most of warping is this acceleration. The relative ship warp times should be close to their relative max warp speed.

Example: a frig with warp speed of 10AU/s would warp to destination 5 times faster than a carrier with max warp speed of 2AU/s if both were pre-aligned.

Edit: this is a pretty elementary assumption based on the ccp example of certain frigates warping three times faster than battleships (as it is relative to the current max warp speed differences).

Edit2: the relation of Newtonian physics and space bending is nonexistent in the current warp iteration (eg. speed and acceleration are not linear with warp acceleration and speed, rather warp speed is just an arbitrary maximum). It's credible that this arbitrary maximum would just be a scaling number in the acceleration formula rather than re doing the thing to simulate ships passing bent space by their non warp speed.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-10-01 14:39:09 UTC
The Spod wrote:
Example: a frig with warp speed of 10AU/s would warp to destination 5 times faster than a carrier with max warp speed of 2AU/s if both were pre-aligned.

this would only be the case if there were no acceleration times at all, thus i do not quite understand what you mean. can you try to express the current versus the new mechanics in formulas?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-10-01 14:47:05 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
The Spod wrote:
Example: a frig with warp speed of 10AU/s would warp to destination 5 times faster than a carrier with max warp speed of 2AU/s if both were pre-aligned.

this would only be the case if there were no acceleration times at all, thus i do not quite understand what you mean. can you try to express the current versus the new mechanics in formulas?


What happens now is that once warp starts (not align the actual warp) all ships accelerate at one rate from a 13AU/s Ceptor to a Charon that warps at 2AU/s Because that rate of acceleration/deceleration is relatively slow, that means that if everyone is aligned that you need a BIG system for the "faster" warping ship to get any real advantage.

...and I mean you need a 90,000km jump, a 40,000km gate to gate jump won't allow the ceptor up to full warp speed for more than a second, if at all.

What CCP is purposing is that the these acceleration factors be changed so that the faster ship DOES have a noticable advantage once both enter warp, right now the big difference between a frigate and a battleship is align time.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-01 14:57:35 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
The Spod wrote:
Example: a frig with warp speed of 10AU/s would warp to destination 5 times faster than a carrier with max warp speed of 2AU/s if both were pre-aligned.

this would only be the case if there were no acceleration times at all, thus i do not quite understand what you mean. can you try to express the current versus the new mechanics in formulas?


Warp acceleration happens after you have accelerated to initiate warp. It slowly accelerates to match your maximum warp speed which is stated in ship stats. Then it decelerates before letting you out of warp. At the moment the acceleration and deceleration is the same regardless of max warp speed.

The upcoming system sounds to me like the warp speed function is either a parabole or the acceleration factor is multiplied by max warp speed.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#7 - 2013-10-01 15:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
It would be very fun if the new warp acceleration/deceleration algorithm depended both on align time and warp speed. Thus, we would have many ways to boost our travel times and take advantage of implants like WS-6XX.

It would be also fun to have the max warp distance algorithm change too, so that it better reflects other aspects of the rebalanced warp equation...C:
Adam Zalonis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-10-01 15:25:34 UTC
From the announcement, it sounds to me that something like the following is likely:

Perhaps every ship will reach its maximum warp speed in the same fixed distance at the beginning of travel, and remain at max warp until that same fixed distance from the destination, when it would decelerate at the same rate. I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but it would be a simple way to achieve the goals stated for the change. The fixed acceleration/deceleration distance could be as short as 1 to 3 AU, which would make max warp speed matter a lot for nearly every warp while traveling.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-10-01 15:43:00 UTC
The Spod wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
The Spod wrote:
Example: a frig with warp speed of 10AU/s would warp to destination 5 times faster than a carrier with max warp speed of 2AU/s if both were pre-aligned.

this would only be the case if there were no acceleration times at all, thus i do not quite understand what you mean. can you try to express the current versus the new mechanics in formulas?


Warp acceleration happens after you have accelerated to initiate warp. It slowly accelerates to match your maximum warp speed which is stated in ship stats. Then it decelerates before letting you out of warp. At the moment the acceleration and deceleration is the same regardless of max warp speed.

The upcoming system sounds to me like the warp speed function is either a parabole or the acceleration factor is multiplied by max warp speed.

this helped quite a lot actually. the remaining question is what IS the current acceleration rate, i.e. how do i calculate how fast i will reach a speed of x AU/s?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Adam Zalonis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-10-01 16:03:07 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
The Spod wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
The Spod wrote:
Example: a frig with warp speed of 10AU/s would warp to destination 5 times faster than a carrier with max warp speed of 2AU/s if both were pre-aligned.

this would only be the case if there were no acceleration times at all, thus i do not quite understand what you mean. can you try to express the current versus the new mechanics in formulas?


Warp acceleration happens after you have accelerated to initiate warp. It slowly accelerates to match your maximum warp speed which is stated in ship stats. Then it decelerates before letting you out of warp. At the moment the acceleration and deceleration is the same regardless of max warp speed.

The upcoming system sounds to me like the warp speed function is either a parabole or the acceleration factor is multiplied by max warp speed.

this helped quite a lot actually. the remaining question is what IS the current acceleration rate, i.e. how do i calculate how fast i will reach a speed of x AU/s?


Since the distance til warp collapse is shown on the screen, the easiest way would be to Fraps or use a video camera to record a warp, and make a table of values of distances versus the timestamp of the video. Do that for several long warps with different warp speed ships and you'll be able to derive the answer with a quadratic regression over the initial accelerarion phase.

Unfortunately my computer isn't good enough to use Fraps and I don't have an appropriate video camera.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-10-01 16:17:13 UTC
I'd like to think that the changes will allow interceptors to "break late" at the end of their warps as well as getting up to speed a lot faster.

I have always felt that the decelaration kicks in way too early on so called fast ships under the current mechanics. I'd like to see the 13AU/second warp maintained until 1 second before destination and then an almost instant revert to "normal speeds" (think star trek).

Of course, battleships and bigger should have their current "oil tanker coming in to dock" feel retained.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-01 17:14:22 UTC
The change is definitely awesome from an immersion point of view, too. A battleship about to land on grid should leave you three times longer warning on overview than an interceptor.
Adam Zalonis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-10-02 21:11:10 UTC
I just did a little testing with a frigate which has a max warp speed of 10.37 AU/s. It gets up to top speed in about 2 AU of distance now. That doesn't mean anything by itself, but I thought I'd report it in case anyone in this thread is interested.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-10-02 21:56:29 UTC
Onictus wrote:
What CCP is purposing is that the these acceleration factors be changed so that the faster ship DOES have a noticable advantage once both enter warp, right now the big difference between a frigate and a battleship is align time.



This makes sense.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Rengerel en Distel
#15 - 2013-10-02 22:29:37 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=283132&find=unread

In case anyone missed it in F&I.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-10-03 09:44:03 UTC
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-10-03 17:30:56 UTC
they are good changes
noticeable even over short distances like 150km

there is an element of double options in it though
smaller ships will be more able to avoid conflicts they don't want to engage in
larger ships will be less able to avoid conflicts they don't want to engage in

even with those taken into account, its still a change made of win
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#18 - 2013-10-03 18:52:04 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
they are good changes
noticeable even over short distances like 150km

there is an element of double options in it though
smaller ships will be more able to avoid conflicts they don't want to engage in
larger ships will be less able to avoid conflicts they don't want to engage in

even with those taken into account, its still a change made of win


huh....

It is made of win BECAUSE larger ships will be less able to avoid conflicts if they don't want to engage. This change is full of win!
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-10-03 22:42:25 UTC
that's what I said ... right there at the end of my post Shocked
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-10-04 03:55:12 UTC
Hmm So warping an entire fleet to land at the same time will be impossible unless all ships in fleet have similar warp speeds.
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