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Making High Sec Safer

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Anomaly One
Doomheim
#81 - 2013-10-01 12:39:01 UTC
Barry Filler wrote:
As a high sec pilot I actually wants the concord to be weaker, makes for more exciting gameplay. I was relieved then Rubicon got announced, because CCP actually wants a total sandbox, and features like NPC Empires and Concord are placeholders. Of course Concord will need to be there as long there is no other solution to deal with complete chaos

I'm maybe too logical in some players taste, But I think Concord makes no sense, ANYONE with the same Superman powers as Concord would abuse that power and conquer whole EVE. If you want EVE to be safe you will get even more disappointed with the future. EVE is not going to get more causal

But I can agree to that point, that I'm not happy with the new system of buying security status. There need to be more severe consequences of attacking in high sec. Right now it's mainly a "isk vs isk" risk.


Agreed. concord should not be perma death for anyone this is bad as it limits gameplay, also they should remove the safety button and warning buttons for game choices.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#82 - 2013-10-01 12:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Winter Archipelago
Ah, lovely. Another one of these useless threads. When will you people learn that the Undock option is a consent to all forms of PvP? If you don't want the risk, mine with a defensive fleet, or, more realistically, mine in a T2-tanked Procurer in 1.0-security space. Those blaster Catty's won't usually bother (though, after this whine-fest of yours, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of people started hunting you just for the tear collection).

If you want other ores than 1.0-security space provides, well, guess what: you have to take risks to get a reward, and in highsec, the reward is already far too high for the risk.

I really wish I could send you a Bucket of Tears, but alas, CCP have yet to implement this item.

Edit ::

Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
The OP of this thread assumes there is codified law in highsec regarding capsuleer actions.

This is incorrect,


This is something I don't think a lot of people realize. Not only are there virtually no real laws that Capsuleers are forced to follow, what few laws DO exist are being weakened and removed. Even in-game texts (such as the Amarr "Capsuleer certification test" item thing, I forget what it's called) states that the laws and rules that pertain to Capsuleers are being watered down and removed.

CCP have made a point of mentioning it multiple times in the last few expansions: The Empires are losing their control over the Capsuleers, and are beginning to become more and more fearful of them.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Velicitia
XS Tech
#83 - 2013-10-01 12:55:04 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
When will you people learn that the Undock option is a consent to all forms of PvP?


Funny, I always thought it was the "Login" button (or the "use this character" one).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Raphael Celestine
Celestine Inc.
#84 - 2013-10-01 13:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Raphael Celestine
Velicitia wrote:
Winter Archipelago wrote:
When will you people learn that the Undock option is a consent to all forms of PvP?


Funny, I always thought it was the "Login" button (or the "use this character" one).

No, no, that's the 'consent to market and metagame PvP' one.

Consent to Spaceship PvP is the undock button.

It's important not to get those two confused; Scotty gets very upset if you turn your guns on inside the station. Blink
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-10-01 13:15:02 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
Please refrain from posting if you only want to criticise.


no discussion of the the OP's incredibly lame idea unless you agree with him please. This is not the place to debate proposed changes to the rules........

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#86 - 2013-10-01 14:01:44 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:


  • You have Null Sec where almost all and most PVP take place. This is a enter at your own risk space.


  • You have Low Sec which is something between PVE and PVP, basically don't fly with one eye closed.


  • You hace High Sec for all players that rather not PVP and focus on content that is out of scope for conflict.


Lol

Regarding PvP there's only one zone and no safe harbour in EVE. Deal with it. That said, you can avoid PvP for extended periods of time, if you know what you're doing.

Remove standings and insurance.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#87 - 2013-10-01 14:40:55 UTC
Raphael Celestine wrote:

It's important not to get those two confused; Scotty gets very upset if you turn your guns on inside the station. Blink


That might explain the recent payment to fed navy ... Shocked

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Marcos Boirelle
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#88 - 2013-10-01 15:25:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcos Boirelle
Alot of good feedback and that is highly appreciated.
Many of you have years of Eve experience unlike me who do not.
This is a new insight to become successful in Eve and what can I say, I have received a different picture ingame from other pilots.

To summarize all your comments it makes sense and this summary is not really presented to you when starting up. The tour received when first starting out with Eve Online does not really cover the details you all are describing. To defend my ideas, I have spoken ingame to pilots that have roamed around in High Sec for 3-4 years and this information was not communicated by them, the picture that you have painted is not the picture hanging in their living room.

When I get ganked it is not devastating, it is irritating and when Concord is 10 seconds "late" + pilots are agreeing with me, then it is really hard for me to experience and know what you have shared.

I hope you all understand that I don't have the years nor the experience that most of you have with Eve so for what it is worth, I know now and understand the direction that Eve is going.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#89 - 2013-10-01 16:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
The tour received when first starting out with Eve Online does not really cover the details you all are describing.
The realm of possibility in Eve is so vast that the tutorials would take months to even scratch the surface. They are simply a very basic introduction, you start learning when they finish.
Quote:
To defend my ideas, I have spoken ingame to pilots that have roamed around in High Sec for 3-4 years and this information was not communicated by them, the picture that you have painted is not the picture hanging in their living room.
There's your problem, some highsec pilots are toxic and the worst griefers in the game. They grief with what they think is sage advice and in your best interests, when in fact all they do is poison the well and close off huge chunks of Eve in the process.
Quote:
When I get ganked it is not devastating, it is irritating and when Concord is 10 seconds "late" + pilots are agreeing with me, then it is really hard for me to experience and know what you have shared.

I hope you all understand that I don't have the years nor the experience that most of you have with Eve so for what it is worth, I know understand the direction that Eve is going.
Concord are never late, they only punish after the crime, they do not prevent it.

The sooner you can get your head around the fact that Eve is very much PvP orientated, and that everything you think is PvE is actually either PvP or designed to fuel PvP the more fun you can potentially have. It's not for everyone, CCP know that and accept it as part of the price of producing a game of this nature.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#90 - 2013-10-01 18:07:56 UTC
Posting in a butthurt carebear thread.

If you're pissed off about the New Order or whatever (which it sounds like you are, given your particular example of gank destroyers), move somewhere they aren't.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-10-02 11:58:00 UTC
Good on you OP, for actually listening to feedback.


Eve is harsh. The best way to learn how to survive it is to experience it.


If you're not willing to try a gank or two to learn a bit about what it's like, then talk to those who DO.


Either way, there is ALOT more to Eve than miners and gankers. Go forth. Experience. Prosper.

Have fun!

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-10-02 13:40:13 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
We all know that there are three different types of space for players;

  • You have Null Sec where almost all and most PVP take place. This is a enter at your own risk space.


  • You have Low Sec which is something between PVE and PVP, basically don't fly with one eye closed.


  • You hace High Sec for all players that rather not PVP and focus on content that is out of scope for conflict.


There has always been a direction with Eve Online and the introduction of Eve Online promotes a clear picture. If you do not want to PVP you should not be forced into PVP space. You can be a miner, a planet harvester, an explorer, a high sec mission runner, a courier, a distributor, a business man, well almost anything if you do not wish to PVP.
Ganking occurs in High Sec, you are never safe in High Sec. You have Concord to protect you but Concord is not always faster or stronger at the time of the attack. We call it High Sec because it is High Security and High Security needs to improve. If you wish to risk your ship and your pod by entering High Sec with a mission to attack ships then the risk needs to be higher.

You can enter High Sec Space today in a Destroyer, armed with sharp teeth and take our mining vessels with minimum loss.

The good thing about Eve is that there are no space restrictions, if you wish to challange the High Sec standard you will more than likely be penalized in one way or the other, however, the victim is not compensated enough as it is today. In other MMORPGs there are zone restrictions where PVP is controlled by player flagging. Eve is unique in its way to make space as democratic as possible but without restrictions.

Ideas for Improvement;

  1. Concord to install surveillance equipment at each Stargate that connects from Null/Low Sec to High Sec and all High Sec Stargates. The purpose of the surveillance is to alert Concord when a pilot enters who is not wanted in High Sec Space. Concord will initiate a boarding procedure and escort the pilot out of High Sec space which includes confiscating the Ship. If the Pilot flees, Concord will initiate a Chase with the authority to destroy the ship and kill the pilot.


  • The technology available allows blocking certain ship types from accessing acceleration gates. This technology could be used to secure High Sec from allowing ships belonging to Pilots with a history of High Sec violance, thus, the pilot cannot use a High Sec stargate.


  • When a pilot violates High Sec law, not only should the pilot's ship be destroyed but the pilot should be killed or arrested and fined. If arrested the pilot's ship should be confiscated.


  • The higher security status the victim has the more focus is given towards the penalty received for attacikng this pilot in High Sec space.


  • Concord reaction time is to slow, the loss for an unarmed miner for instance will always be greater than the loss for an attacker. Concord to hire more pilots and be more active in High Sec Space.



I don't pvp very much
and when I do, I do it badly
but I disagree with everything you have said

the core concept that eve is designed around is this
Quote:

When you undock
You are a target
Because you undocked


when you understand and accept this, eve stops being frustrating and annoying.
Maliandra
Doomheim
#93 - 2013-10-27 08:23:13 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
TL;DR, you lost a miner to a gank catalyst, so you want to lock tens of thousands of players out of highsec for no apparent reason. You also want CONCORD to pod them, confiscate rather than just explode ships, put measures on every single gate in highsec to stop them from DARING to play the game in a way that you don't, and a whole host of other draconian measures.

How DARE people like something you don't? or try to play in a sandbox?

HTFU.
Why are you being rude?

Oh I know, because you need to feel better about yourself.
Anailee
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-10-27 10:04:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anailee
Danika Princip wrote:
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
TL;DR, you lost a miner to a gank catalyst, so you want to lock tens of thousands of players out of highsec for no apparent reason. You also want CONCORD to pod them, confiscate rather than just explode ships, put measures on every single gate in highsec to stop them from DARING to play the game in a way that you don't, and a whole host of other draconian measures.

How DARE people like something you don't? or try to play in a sandbox?

HTFU.


Appreciate your feedback but you are misunderstanding the idea and feature. The tens of thousands you refer to have tens of thousands that think opposite as well. Please refrain from posting if you only want to criticise.



I am a nullsec player. Explain to me exactly why I should be locked out of highsec. Explain why multiple playstyles need to be removed from the game. Explain why everyone who does not play the way you want them to needs to be punished.

Please refrain from posting ideas if you cannot defend them.


I'll tell you exactly why you and people like you are wrong. First off, how dare you accuse those of us who support a safer high sec of restricting you or denying you your chosen play style. Let me tell you something. you and those like you are denying the rest of us OUR desired play style. We don't want to PVP. Especially not with a bunch of callous and selfish trolls who get their jollies from attacking ships that can't even fight back. Why don't you "grow a pair" and go shoot at some ships who can shoot back. And preferably do it in your own space. We don't want you in high sec. And I personally LOVED the mining barge changes because it shows that CCP is gradually taking OUR side of the debate. You and gankers like you are losing this battle. Good luck in null-sec space (where you belong).
Anailee
Perkone
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-10-27 10:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Anailee
Kenrailae wrote:
Good on you OP, for actually listening to feedback.


Eve is harsh. The best way to learn how to survive it is to experience it.


If you're not willing to try a gank or two to learn a bit about what it's like, then talk to those who DO.


Either way, there is ALOT more to Eve than miners and gankers. Go forth. Experience. Prosper.

Have fun!


I say likewise to you. There's more to Eve than ganking and finger twitching. If you don't understand why some people like to stick to industry (and actually build all the stuff you use to gank people) then go enlighten yourself.You should probably support us though, because the entire economy is supported by miners and industry players. Without us the game would stop altogether. Then you'd just have a bunch of gankers having wars with the free frigates you get after death because there wouldn't be anything better to buy. lolz.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#96 - 2013-10-27 10:16:58 UTC
Came expecting a troll thread.

Was not disappointed.

Posting in a troll thread.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#97 - 2013-10-27 10:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Anailee wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:



I am a nullsec player. Explain to me exactly why I should be locked out of highsec. Explain why multiple playstyles need to be removed from the game. Explain why everyone who does not play the way you want them to needs to be punished.

Please refrain from posting ideas if you cannot defend them.


I'll tell you exactly why YOU and people like YOU are wrong. First off, how dare you accuse those of us who support a safer high sec of restricting you or denying you your chosen play style. Let me tell YOU something. YOU and those like YOU are denying the rest of us OUR desired play style. We don't want to PVP. Especially not with a bunch of callous and selfish trolls who get their jollies from attacking ships that can't even fight back. Why don't you "grow a pair" and go shoot at some ships who can shoot back. And preferably do it in your own space. We don't want you in high sec. And I personally LOVED the mining barge changes because it shows that CCP is gradually taking OUR side of the debate. You and gankers like you are losing this batle. Good luck in null-sec space (where you belong).
Ahh I get it. You want Eve to be a sandbox where you can do anything, as long as others don't do things you don't like?

The trouble is, that's not how a sandbox works. No one is stopping you playing your play style, no one is restricting you. But as Eve is PvP centric, you have to accept this game as an MMO, will have other players that may interfere with your play style.

PvP is about conflict and competition. Almost every aspect of this game revolves around PvP. You like all others, can play your style and try to build your own little sand castle. But the game allows others to try and stop you.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#98 - 2013-10-27 10:18:57 UTC
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
TL;DR, you lost a miner to a gank catalyst, so you want to lock tens of thousands of players out of highsec for no apparent reason. You also want CONCORD to pod them, confiscate rather than just explode ships, put measures on every single gate in highsec to stop them from DARING to play the game in a way that you don't, and a whole host of other draconian measures.

How DARE people like something you don't? or try to play in a sandbox?

HTFU.


Appreciate your feedback but you are misunderstanding the idea and feature. The tens of thousands you refer to have tens of thousands that think opposite as well. Please refrain from posting if you only want to criticise.


This is EVE. There are risks and consequences to nearly every possible action, including undock. This is by design, not by accident. For people who just want all PvP to happen to someone else they're in the wrong game.
Anailee
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-10-27 10:20:10 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
Marcos Boirelle wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
TL;DR, you lost a miner to a gank catalyst, so you want to lock tens of thousands of players out of highsec for no apparent reason. You also want CONCORD to pod them, confiscate rather than just explode ships, put measures on every single gate in highsec to stop them from DARING to play the game in a way that you don't, and a whole host of other draconian measures.

How DARE people like something you don't? or try to play in a sandbox?

HTFU.


Appreciate your feedback but you are misunderstanding the idea and feature. The tens of thousands you refer to have tens of thousands that think opposite as well. Please refrain from posting if you only want to criticise.


This is EVE. There are risks and consequences to nearly every possible action, including undock. This is by design, not by accident. For people who just want all PvP to happen to someone else they're in the wrong game.


Or maybe you're the one in the wrong game. After all, you're denying us our preferred style of play. You should all stay in low sec.
Anailee
Perkone
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-10-27 10:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Anailee
Mag's wrote:
Anailee wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:



I am a nullsec player. Explain to me exactly why I should be locked out of highsec. Explain why multiple playstyles need to be removed from the game. Explain why everyone who does not play the way you want them to needs to be punished.

Please refrain from posting ideas if you cannot defend them.


I'll tell you exactly why YOU and people like YOU are wrong. First off, how dare you accuse those of us who support a safer high sec of restricting you or denying you your chosen play style. Let me tell YOU something. YOU and those like YOU are denying the rest of us OUR desired play style. We don't want to PVP. Especially not with a bunch of callous and selfish trolls who get their jollies from attacking ships that can't even fight back. Why don't you "grow a pair" and go shoot at some ships who can shoot back. And preferably do it in your own space. We don't want you in high sec. And I personally LOVED the mining barge changes because it shows that CCP is gradually taking OUR side of the debate. You and gankers like you are losing this batle. Good luck in null-sec space (where you belong).
Ahh I get it. You want Eve to be a sandbox where you can do anything, as long as others don't do things you don't like?

The trouble is, that's not how a sandbox works. No one is stopping you playing your play style, no one is restricting you. But as Eve is PvP centric, you have to accept this game as an MMO, will have other players that may interfere with your play style.

PvP is about conflict and competition. Almost every aspect of this game revolves around PvP. You like all others, can play your style and try to build your own little sand castle. But the game allows others to try and stop you.


Goes both ways. PVP centric? No it's not. That's why ganks in high-sec are called suicide ganks. Because you die one way or another. It's only sad concord doesn't pod you guys (I think they should). And yes, you guys do restrict our preferred playstyle. Mainly in the part where we don't want to PVP and we have ships that don't have weapons. And trolls who like to target vessels with no weapons (because they probably don't have the skill to go shoot other pvp'ers who do have weapons) ruin the game for us.

EVE has an entire backstory to it. And lots of brilliant missions with fascinating stories. Sad thing is...people like you never even notice. Too busy blowing up transport ships I suppose. Or mining barges.

The truth is, CCP has already put measures in place to stop you gankers in High-Sec. It's called Concord. But, CCP probably never considered that these measures wouldn't be stringent enough to get the message across. That's why you guys come to high-sec. obviously CCP needs to tighten security just that much more to bring high-sec back where it was 5 years ago.